Why God allows the evil of the HHS mandate

[Rence]

If the price to the consumer is $0.00, it’s free.

Well, that’s kind of naive. The only ones who are getting freebies are those who aren’t putting back into the system, or those who are too young to have put into the system. People who have insurance pay part (if not all) of their premiums, copays and deductibles. The cost of all services are carved into those so that the insurance companies don’t incur a huge loss.

The HHS mandate does infringe on the religious rights of faithful institutions to teach theology without interference from the opinions of the federal government. This is why there are lawsuits by some of these faithful institutions such as Belmont Abbey and Franciscan University. IT also infringes on the rights of some business owners who do not wish to buy certain kinds of insurance. Their rights are being trampled on.

Well, it’s unfortunate some people feel this way. Religious based institutions still can teach theology without ‘interference’. I mean, even though the Catholic hospital I worked at provided birth control, I very well knew the rules of the Church. It’s up to the individual to either follow them or not follow them. Temptation is as old as dirt, so one can’t blame the fact that the benefit merely exists and is available. And frankly, I can understand the perspective of the lawmakers not extending the exemption to places such as hospitals and universities and other non-religious businesses (like Hobby Lobby) because they don’t just employ and service Catholics but everyone. To me, and to many others, this mandate is no different than paying taxes (which includes paying for others ABCs).

If this truly was a matter of religious conscience, people would be trying to get out of paying for taxes on the same grounds, but they don’t. This is no different.

 

[Rence]

Actually, there will, but the number of people who can avail themselves of them by law will be very small. They will be on religious exemption, not only Catholics, but Jews, Muslims and other Christians as well.

Right, but you have to employ all religious, and you serve all religious in a religious capacity, such as parishes, diocese, etc. Religious hospitals and universities won’t be excempt because they employ and serve everyone and it’s not specifically religious based.

 

[iloveangels]

Exactly

I’m not talking about the big Catholic ones that have been in disobedience for more than a decade, the ones that already have all these services and don’t give a rip when it comes to Church teaching. I’m talking about the faithful ones. That’s where the real violation of rights is. There and places like bible publishing companies like Tyndale House and businesses like Hobby Lobby and so on, who should have a right to get an exemption for religious reasons because they practice what they preach and can demonstrate that clearly in broad daylight.

 

[iloveangels]

Well, that’s kind of naive. The only ones who are getting freebies are those who aren’t putting back into the system, or those who are too young to have put into the system. People who have insurance pay part (if not all) of their premiums, copays and deductibles. The cost of all services are carved into those so that the insurance companies don’t incur a huge loss.

Oh horse hockey. When the price = $0.00, it’s free. That they have to play with their papers is not my concern.

Well, it’s unfortunate some people feel this way. Religious based institutions still can teach theology without ‘interference’. I mean, even though the Catholic hospital I worked at provided birth control, I very well knew the rules of the Church. It’s up to the individual to either follow them or not follow them. Temptation is as old as dirt, so one can’t blame the fact that the benefit merely exists and is available. And frankly, I can understand the perspective of the lawmakers not extending the exemption to places such as hospitals and universities and other non-religious businesses (like Hobby Lobby) because they don’t just employ and service Catholics but everyone. To me, and to many others, this mandate is no different than paying taxes (which includes paying for others ABCs).

If this truly was a matter of religious conscience, people would be trying to get out of paying for taxes on the same grounds, but they don’t. This is no different.

People who don’t want to follow the teachings of the Catholic Church shouldn’t be working at Catholic institutions, and we made a big mistake by being so soft with them. I hope we take this experience as a lesson and wise up.

We’ve also made a lifestyle out of running what amounts to cheap prep schools for non-Catholics with virtually no strings attached. That needs to stop too.

 

[Stephen168]

Hey, I totally agree that Catholics should be on board with the Church on birth control and abortion. When did I disagree with the teachings of the Church? One can’t really disagree with the teachings: they are what thy are. I actually agree with the USCCB which allows women to use Plan B after a rape (even according to their usage guidelines). And I’ve never said that every woman has a right to free birth control and abortion. Where did I say that women have a aright to free birth contrl and abortion?

As to the below quote, it was in reference to the fact that** women on medicaid** (because they don’t pay for their own insurance) get free and discounted ABCS. Yet, those who are in opposition to the mandate want women who actually pay for part of their insurance benefits (they have premiums, deductibles and copays) to not have access to the same benefits. One can’t miss the irony in that one, unless it’s deliberate.

Working women are not denied birth control, they just have to pay for it, just like we pay extra for eye care. But as I said, You think women should have it free. Gender politics

 

[Mary_Gail_36]

Right, but you have to employ all religious, and you serve all religious in a religious capacity, such as parishes, diocese, etc. Religious hospitals and universities won’t be excempt because they employ and serve everyone and it’s not specifically religious based.

So, If I go work as a waitress in a Kosher deli that provides free lunch to its workers, I have the right to get a pulled pork sandwich-- and the deli loses the right to serve what they like-- because I happen to be not Jewish?

I actually gave birth in a Yeshiva hospital twice.

My meals (that I was paying for) were always Kosher. If I wanted a non Kosher meal, I would need to send out for it. They had the right to serve me food according to their religious beliefs, even though I was paying and not Jewish.

 

[iloveangels]

So, If I go work as a waitress in a Kosher deli that provides free lunch, I have the right to get a pulled pork sandwich-- and the deli loses the right to serve what they like-- because I happen to be not Jewish?

They can put only kosher foods on their menu if they want. They can be vegetarian or serve only ice cream if they want. If people don’t like it, they’ll just have to go to a different restaurant.

Unfortunately, that’s a little different than what we have because we’ve allowed so much nonsense for so long, and we are in so many places that we probably shouldn’t be anymore–aka our big disobedient places. When it applies to faithful, church-obeying institutions, this is a good analogy though.

There are a lot of places like Tyndale Publishers that can verify their non-abortion teachings in broad daylight. They should get a religious exemption.

 

[Rence]

Working women are not denied birth control, they just have to pay for it, just like we pay extra for eye care. But as I said, You think women should have it free. Gender politics

The point is being missed again

1. In the case of women getting medicaid, they get the birth control free. They get it free. They don’t pay benefits, don’t have a copay and don’t pay a deductible. They truly get it free or at a discount, for free.

2)People who are opposed to the mandate for the working woman to get the same benefit through their insurance carrier want them NOT to have the benefit. These are women who actually pay for their insurance in the form of premiums, deductibles and copays. So of course these women expect the benefit to be included in their benefits package, which they actually pay for.

So given the above, I can see why some people think it’s unfair that the working woman is denied this coverage when she actually pays for her coverage, while the woman getting medicaid does get it for free. It’s called irony. And I’m not the only one who didn’t miss it. Which is why most people don’t consider the mandate ‘unfair’.

 

[Stephen168]

To me, and to many others, this mandate is no different than paying taxes (which includes paying for others ABCs).

If this truly was a matter of religious conscience, people would be trying to get out of paying for taxes on the same grounds, but they don’t. This is no different.

The difference has been explained to you many times; you don’t want to hear it because you support free birth control for women.

 

[Rence]

So, If I go work as a waitress in a Kosher deli that provides free lunch, I have the right to get a pulled pork sandwich-- and the deli loses the right to serve what they like-- because I happen to be not Jewish?

The mandate doesn’t dictate what meats a deli carries, or what flowers a florist will carry, or what pasta the Olive Garden serves. It only mandates that they provide insurance to all of their employees if they meet certain criteria. In turn, the insurance companies have to provide a comprehensive woman’s health package which includes ABCs coverage. And as always, the employee gets to pick and choose which benefits they will use according to their needs.

 

[Stephen168]

The point is being missed again

1. In the case of women getting medicaid, they get the birth control free. They get it free. They don’t pay benefits, don’t have a copay and don’t pay a deductible. They truly get it free or at a discount, for free.

Birth control is not insurance and it is not health care. There is not reason someone needs it.

 

[iloveangels]

The point is being missed again

1. In the case of women getting medicaid, they get the birth control free. They get it free. They don’t pay benefits, don’t have a copay and don’t pay a deductible. They truly get it free or at a discount, for free.

2)People who are opposed to the mandate for the working woman to get the same benefit through their insurance carrier want them NOT to have the benefit. These are women who actually pay for their insurance in the form of premiums, deductibles and copays. So of course these women expect the benefit to be included in their benefits package, which they actually pay for.

So given the above, I can see why some people think it’s unfair that the working woman is denied this coverage when she actually pays for her coverage, while the woman getting medicaid does get it for free. It’s called irony. And I’m not the only one who didn’t miss it. Which is why most people don’t consider the mandate ‘unfair’.

Rence, it truly doesn’t matter. Birth control is worthless around here. I don’t care if they pay me for getting it. It goes in the trash. You’re not speaking to someone who cares about it.

Now, in some “catholic” circles, I imagine that this is a benefit, but how Catholic are they? And whose fault is it that there are so many people like this?

 

[Rence]

The difference has been explained to you many times; you don’t want to hear it because you support free birth control for women.

No it hasn’t. Because there is no difference. 1) We all have to pay taxes. Part of those taxes goes to paying for others’ birth control. 2) Business all have to provide insurance for their employees if they meet a certain criteria. All insurance companies will be providing ABCs coverage. Same thing.

 

[iloveangels]

No it hasn’t. Because there is no difference. 1) We all have to pay taxes. Part of those taxes goes to paying for others’ birth control. 2) Business all have to provide insurance for their employees if they meet a certain criteria. All insurance companies will be providing ABCs coverage. Same thing.

Earth to Rence. Come in Rence. Half the American population doesn’t pay taxes. Zip. Zero. Zilch. $0.00 at the drug store means FREE.

It does not matter if someone has to shuffle a bunch of papers to accomplish this little feat of dishonesty. The federal government will just hide it in the massive deficit we have someplace along all their other schemes. It’s a mess, but it’s all a mess.

 

[Stephen168]

So given the above, I can see why some people think it’s unfair that the working woman is denied this coverage when she actually pays for her coverage, while the woman getting medicaid does get it for free. It’s called irony. And I’m not the only one who didn’t miss it. Which is why most people don’t consider the mandate ‘unfair’.

She doesn’t pay for it if she isn’t getting it. To get it the premiums go up just like eye care add on.

 

[Rence]

Rence, it truly doesn’t matter. Birth control is worthless around here. I don’t care if they pay me for getting it. It goes in the trash. You’re not speaking to someone who cares about it.

Now, in some “catholic” circles, I imagine that this is a benefit, but how Catholic are they? And whose fault is it that there are so many people like this?

You’re also speaking to someone who has never bought or used contraceptives. I still have it as a benefit. That doesn’t change the fact that no one’s trying to get me to use it, or not use it.

 

[Stephen168]

No it hasn’t. Because there is no difference. 1) We all have to pay taxes. Part of those taxes goes to paying for others’ birth control. 2) Business all have to provide insurance for their employees if they meet a certain criteria. All insurance companies will be providing ABCs coverage. Same thing.

The individual employer will be paying extra for birth control. I pay taxes but I pay extra to enter a National Park. The extra is very specific.

 

[Rence]

She doesn’t pay for it if she isn’t getting it. To get it the premiums go up just like eye care add on.

She does pay for it because the cost is factored into the premiums, deductibles and copays. That’s how group insurance works: some people will use the benefits for something things, but not others. Everyone will not use every benefit available.

The cost of my benefits actually went down Jan 1, 2013 and I still have ABCs coverage in my package.

 

[Rence]

Earth to Rence. Come in Rence. Half the American population doesn’t pay taxes. Zip. Zero. Zilch. $0.00 at the drug store means FREE.

Oh yeah, I am the one living in a different world

It would truly be interesting having some of you folks in a real life committee discussing these issues.

 

[iloveangels]

You’re also speaking to someone who has never bought or used contraceptives. I still have it as a benefit. That doesn’t change the fact that no one’s trying to get me to use it, or not use it.

That’s not the point, and if you think it is, you don’t understand any of this.