Why God allows the evil of the HHS mandate

[Rence]

This isn’t the case, but this is how many Catholics see it. This is a big problem.

The Church cannot both teach moral behavior and deny it at the same time. Dioceses and parishes cannot do this.

The biggest problem is lack of consistency and the making of availability of Church teaching, as well as a willingness to enforce it. The Church’s teachings regarding sex and everything related to sex should be taught within the Catholic high schools, the Catholic colleges/universities, and from the pulpit on a regular basis. It is not consistently done and as a result there are many uncatechized Catholics. In addition, there is no way to enforce Catholic rules on those who do not wish to follow them.

Temptation to engage in activities that the Church forbids is all around us. That will never change: as long as we have free will, we can choose to go along with Church teaching or not to go along with Church teaching. Availability of things the Church rejects is not the problem, it’s merely as old as dirt. The reason why people are getting all upset about this mandate is because they know people will take advantage of these new benefits, whereas in the past, they were able to make it harder for their employees to follow the will of the employer. That doesn’t make better Catholics obvously. One has to choose to follow Catholic rules and laws on their own.

Maybe God allows the mandate because He wants them to choose to do the right thing freely when exposed to the occasion of sin. There is no point in following a religion that you’re only following because you have no choice in the matter.

 

[Rence]

It doesn’t take the issue out of the hands of employers. It forces employers to provide coverage which violates their religion. Some employers self insure or have been able to find insurance that does not violate their conscience.

Yes, it’s out of the hands of the employers. They don’t have a choice in the matter. All policies now cover ABCs per government mandate. They must provide insurance to all of their employees if they meet certain criteria. It’s a government mandate.

The same people who are making all this noise about the mandate are also paying taxes (which contribue to others’ ABCs). We’re all already paying for others’ ABCs. This is no different. In addition, those Catholic who are paying premiums on group coverage that also includes ABCs coverage are not being told they have to drop their insurance. They are merely being told not to use that coverage per Church teachings.

 

[Stephen168]

. It’s a government mandate.

When did the federal mandate for free birth control go into effect?

 

[JimG]

Perhaps the mandate will force many Catholics to apostasize at the demand of the HHS. If that is the case, so much the worse for the Church and the nation.

 

[Stephen168]

Perhaps the mandate will force many Catholics to apostasize at the demand of the HHS. If that is the case, so much the worse for the Church and the nation.

There are people who call themselves Catholics who believe that women have a right to free stuff, including abortion and birth control. They hope for government mandates because they believe the government is the source of moral thought.

 

[Rence]

When did the federal mandate for free birth control go into effect?

Well, first of all, it’s not “free”. The mandate dictates that all insurance companies include ABCs coverage for all women, which includes no copay for birth control pills, among other benefits in their women’s health package. This means that employers can’t leave out those benefits anymore because the mandate ensures all insurance companies include in their policies a comprehensive women’s health package as part of their benefits.

And I don’t know when it actually goes into effect. I’ve almost always had ABCs coverage, even when I worked in a Catholic hospital. Just because one has the coverage, doesn’t mean they’re all going to use every benefit available.

 

[Stephen168]

Well, first of all, it’s not “free”. The mandate dictates that all insurance companies include ABCs coverage for all women, which includes no copay for birth control pills, among other benefits in their women’s health package. This means that employers can’t leave out those benefits anymore because the mandate ensures all insurance companies include in their policies a comprehensive women’s health package as part of their benefits.

And I don’t know when it actually goes into effect. I’ve almost always had ABCs coverage, even when I worked in a Catholic hospital. Just because one has the coverage, doesn’t mean they’re all going to use every benefit available.

When you don’t have to pay for something it is free.

You are saying the HHS mandate is a non-issue because there is a mandate that hasn’t got into effect that already requires what the HHS mandate requires.

So you are good with paying for other women’s abortions, too?

 

[Rence]

When you don’t have to pay for something it is free.

I never said anything was free. Nor did I say no one had to not pay for anything. What exactly are you replying to, because it’s not anything I’ve posted here.

You are saying the HHS mandate is a non-issue because there is a mandate that hasn’t got into effect that already requires what the HHS mandate requires.

I’m saying the HHS mandate is a non-issue in response to others’ claim that it infringes on religious rights. It doesn’t infringe on anyone’s religious rights to practice their own religion.

 

[Stephen168]

I never said anything was free. Nor did I say no one had to not pay for anything. What exactly are you replying to, because it’s not anything I’ve posted here.

I’m saying the HHS mandate is a non-issue in response to others’ claim that it infringes on religious rights. It doesn’t infringe on anyone’s religious rights to practice their own religion.

We’ve already had this discussion. You disagree with the USCCB. You disagree with the Church’s teaching on birth control and abortion. You believe every woman has a right to free birth control and abortion.

That’s one thing that no one’s talked about: the fact that those who don’t have insurance can get free and discounted ABCs, but some religious organizations want the working women who have insurance to not have access to this same benefit.

 

[Sarcelle]

The mandate requires insurance companies to provide ABCs coverage across the board, to everyone. That takes the decision out of the hands of all employers. This is no different than the requirement to pay taxes, which also pays for ABCs. It’s also no different than everyone paying premiums to a group insurance that also covers ABCs. There is nothing different about this mandate that we don’t already do. This is partly what makes this a non-issue to many Catholics.

What if the employer only offers insurance policies that do not offer birth control? Female employees who would like to access birth control are free to pay for it out of pocket. Will this violate the HHS mandate?

 

[Stephen168]

What if the employer only offers insurance policies that do not offer birth control? Female employees who would like to access birth control are free to pay for it out of pocket. Will this violate the HHS mandate?

Yes, it would violate the mandate. The goal of gender feminists is FREE birth control and abortion. That is why it must be free of co-pay.

 

[Rence]

We’ve already had this discussion. You disagree with the USCCB. You disagree with the Church’s teaching on birth control and abortion. You believe every woman has a right to free birth control and abortion.

Hey, I totally agree that Catholics should be on board with the Church on birth control and abortion. When did I disagree with the teachings of the Church? One can’t really disagree with the teachings: they are what thy are. I actually agree with the USCCB which allows women to use Plan B after a rape (even according to their usage guidelines). And I’ve never said that every woman has a right to free birth control and abortion. Where did I say that women have a aright to free birth contrl and abortion?

As to the below quote, it was in reference to the fact that women on medicaid (because they don’t pay for their own insurance) get free and discounted ABCS. Yet, those who are in opposition to the mandate want women who actually pay for part of their insurance benefits (they have premiums, deductibles and copays) to not have access to the same benefits. One can’t miss the irony in that one, unless it’s deliberate.

That’s one thing that no one’s talked about: the fact that those who don’t have insurance can get free and discounted ABCs, but some religious organizations want the working women who have insurance to not have access to this same benefit.

 

[Rence]

What if the employer only offers insurance policies that do not offer birth control? Female employees who would like to access birth control are free to pay for it out of pocket. Will this violate the HHS mandate?

According to the new mandate, all insurance companies are now required to include them in all of their benefits packages across the board. So according to the new mandate, there won’t be an insurance policy that doesn’t include them.

 

[iloveangels]

It doesn’t take the issue out of the hands of employers. It forces employers to provide coverage which violates their religion. Some employers self insure or have been able to find insurance that does not violate their conscience.

To use my previous example, if I provide coverage for my employees to hire hit men, am I thereby absolved from responsibility? Am I absolved if the law places the requirement on insurance companies rather than me directly? (And if I self insure?) Am I absolved just because most of my employees are already in the habit of hiring hit men? I don’t think so. The USCCB agrees with me.

Yes, you’re not talking about those institutions who don’t care one way or the other. You’re basically talking about dioceses and parishes here and a few institutions which have remained faithful to Catholic teaching.

 

[iloveangels]

Perhaps the mandate will force many Catholics to apostasize at the demand of the HHS. If that is the case, so much the worse for the Church and the nation.

Why? Many of them already do these things.

JimG, I’m not saying they should. They shouldn’t. I am saying that for the great majority of Catholics, who neither work for the one of the faithful Church institutions, nor obey most of the Church’s teachings, this isn’t going to make one bit of difference in their own lives. Oh, they’ll probably whine like pigs if their precious Catholic school gets closed down but to many of them it’s just a glorified prep school anyway, because we’ve let it be that.

 

[iloveangels]

There are people who call themselves Catholics who believe that women have a right to free stuff, including abortion and birth control. They hope for government mandates because they believe the government is the source of moral thought.

Correct. They believe that politics = religion. Many people cannot tell the difference.

 

[iloveangels]

I never said anything was free. Nor did I say no one had to not pay for anything. What exactly are you replying to, because it’s not anything I’ve posted here.

I’m saying the HHS mandate is a non-issue in response to others’ claim that it infringes on religious rights. It doesn’t infringe on anyone’s religious rights to practice their own religion.

If the price to the consumer is $0.00, it’s free.

The HHS mandate does infringe on the religious rights of faithful institutions to teach theology without interference from the opinions of the federal government. This is why there are lawsuits by some of these faithful institutions such as Belmont Abbey and Franciscan University. IT also infringes on the rights of some business owners who do not wish to buy certain kinds of insurance. Their rights are being trampled on.

 

[iloveangels]

What if the employer only offers insurance policies that do not offer birth control? Female employees who would like to access birth control are free to pay for it out of pocket. Will this violate the HHS mandate?

No. Fine = $100 per day per employee for a grand total of $36,500 per year per person. This is also punitive and exorbitant.

 

[iloveangels]

According to the new mandate, all insurance companies are now required to include them in all of their benefits packages across the board. So according to the new mandate, there won’t be an insurance policy that doesn’t include them.

Actually, there will, but the number of people who can avail themselves of them by law will be very small. They will be on religious exemption, not only Catholics, but Jews, Muslims and other Christians as well.

 

[Stephen168]

If the price to the consumer is $0.00, it’s free.

The HHS mandate does infringe on the religious rights of faithful institutions to teach theology without interference from the opinions of the federal government. This is why there are lawsuits by some of these faithful institutions such as Belmont Abbey and Franciscan University. IT also infringes on the rights of some business owners who do not wish to buy certain kinds of insurance. Their rights are being trampled on.

Exactly