Why God allows the evil of the HHS mandate

[livingwordunity]

I believe that God is allowing the evil of the HHS mandate because the Church in America hasn’t suffered enough. We Catholics in America are for the most part fat and lazy when it comes to the faith. We complain that Mass is boring. Well, when the government starts confiscating all Church assets including our parish buildings, schools, hospitals, and cathedrals, and people who try to prevent it get arrested, and when we are all labeled as bigots and have to celebrate Mass perhaps secretly at someone’s private home we won’t be able to say that Mass is boring. We will be getting our wish, a Mass that isn’t boring. I think this will lead to many Catholics rising to the occasion and becoming heroes of the faith.

 

[Burdensome1]

So, basically, you’re saying God is allowing this particular evil for the reasons He allows all other evils.

OK. Um, I guess you get a gold star, or something.

 

[iloveangels]

I believe that God is allowing the evil of the HHS mandate because the Church in America hasn’t suffered enough. We Catholics in America are for the most part fat and lazy when it comes to the faith. We complain that Mass is boring. Well, when the government starts confiscating all Church assets including our parish buildings, schools, hospitals, and cathedrals, and people who try to prevent it get arrested, and when we are all labeled as bigots and have to celebrate Mass perhaps secretly at someone’s private home we won’t be able to say that Mass is boring. We will be getting our wish, a Mass that isn’t boring. I think this will lead to many Catholics rising to the occasion and becoming heroes of the faith.

No. The Church has gotten itself in a ridiculous condition because of bad management and public sinning while making big boasts about ourselves, and we have simply made ourselves an easy target. WE did it to ourselves.

And in American politics, easy targets get hit. We stepped into the ring of our own volition and said “HIT ME” and so they did. It’s just that simple.

When we straighten up and decide who we really are and act like it, we’ll stop being such a good target. And then the attacks will slack off. Just that simple.

We’re a religion. We’re not primarily a peace & justice organization. We’re not primarily an association of amateur social workers (or even professional ones). We’re not a governmental agency. We’re not an ethnic group. We’re a religion. Surprise!!!

 

[Catholic1954]

God does not allow this this evil; he allows US to CHOOSE it. More than 50% of Catholics out there voted this administration into power, not God. When our bishops decide to give up pushing social justice on us and return to preaching the gospel the Church will be stronger, the confusion of Catholics will clear up, we can get back on track and bring the rest of the country with us.

 

[ProVobis]

No. The Church has gotten itself in a ridiculous condition because of bad management and public sinning while making big boasts about ourselves, and we have simply made ourselves an easy target. WE did it to ourselves.

And in American politics, easy targets get hit. We stepped into the ring of our own volition and said “HIT ME” and so they did. It’s just that simple.

When we straighten up and decide who we really are and act like it, we’ll stop being such a good target. And then the attacks will slack off. Just that simple.

We’re a religion. We’re not primarily a peace & justice organization. We’re not primarily an association of amateur social workers (or even professional ones). We’re not a governmental agency. We’re not an ethnic group. We’re a religion. Surprise!!!

I agree with much of what you say here.

Some years ago my then wife did the books for our local parish. PRO BONO. We wouldn’t accept payment from the Church. It seems out of character that we should look at the Catholic Church for what we can get out of it (employment, raises, benefits, etc.) It is a shame that it has come down to things like mandates of any kind.

 

[livingwordunity]

No. The Church has gotten itself in a ridiculous condition because of bad management and public sinning while making big boasts about ourselves, and we have simply made ourselves an easy target. WE did it to ourselves.

What specific part of what I said was not the truth? I’m not sure if you are agreeing or disagreeing with me.

 

[JimG]

I believe that God is allowing the evil of the HHS mandate because the Church in America hasn’t suffered enough. We Catholics in America are for the most part fat and lazy when it comes to the faith. We complain that Mass is boring. Well, when the government starts confiscating all Church assets including our parish buildings, schools, hospitals, and cathedrals, and people who try to prevent it get arrested, and when we are all labeled as bigots and have to celebrate Mass perhaps secretly at someone’s private home we won’t be able to say that Mass is boring. We will be getting our wish, a Mass that isn’t boring. I think this will lead to many Catholics rising to the occasion and becoming heroes of the faith.

Pehaps. Or it may lead many Catholics to simply apostasize.

 

[livingwordunity]

Pehaps. Or it may lead many Catholics to simply apostasize.

“They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would have continued with us; but they went out, that it might be plain that they all are not of us.” - 1 John 2:19

 

[Bill_7154]

What IS the 'HHS Mandate" thanks for answering.

God Bless,
Bill

 

[JimG]

What IS the 'HHS Mandate" thanks for answering.

God Bless,
Bill

There’s been a lot of news about the mandate. Essentially, it requires as a matter of mandatory coverage that most employers, including religious employers, provide health insurance, and provide no-copay coverage for contraception, morning after pills, and sterilization. Since all these things violate Catholic morality, Catholic employers, especially Catholic institutions such as schools and hospitals and social agencies, have a problem with it. They are forced to reject their religion or pay heavy fines, or go out of business.

You might start with the USCCB website. Here
usccb.org/news/2012/12-021.cfm
Or here:
usccb.org/search.cfm?site=newusccb&proxystylesheet=newusccb_frontend&q=HHS+mandate&lang=eng

 

[Wynfrith77]

God provides, but yes the society chose to impose it.

On the bright side martyrs built the Church. The Western World could use a humbling, and some separating wheat from chaff is not a bad thing.

In answer to the OP’s thought. I believe God is permitting the choices of society to perpetuate the evils it longs for, and yes that has the potential to harm us, physically, as a consequence.

 

[JimG]

God provides, but yes the society chose to impose it.

On the bright side martyrs built the Church. The Western World could use a humbling, and some separating wheat from chaff is not a bad thing.

In answer to the OP’s thought. I believe God is permitting the choices of society to perpetuate the evils it longs for, and yes that has the potential to harm us, physically, as a consequence.

Yes, this is just the beginning of persecution of the Catholic Church and other Christians by the U.S. government. Whether that can be called a good thing–well, I’m not willing yet to call it a good thing.

 

[Captain_America]

I agree with Jim. This doesn’t auger well.

I’m a social justice type and a guy who usually likes the idea of active government. . . but this is an outright theft of constitutional rights, and a serious crime by the administration.

Do you want a world in which it is just the Individual and the State?

I disagree with the above poster who says we called this evil upon ourselves by not being a religion. Christianity includes service to others, helping Christ in helping down and out brothers.

I’m rather dismayed that the nuns have opted out of the discussion and let the bishops take the heat.

 

[iloveangels]

I agree with Jim. This doesn’t auger well.

I’m a social justice type and a guy who usually likes the idea of active government. . . but this is an outright theft of constitutional rights, and a serious crime by the administration.

Do you want a world in which it is just the Individual and the State?

I disagree with the above poster who says we called this evil upon ourselves by not being a religion. Christianity includes service to others, helping Christ in helping down and out brothers.

I’m rather dismayed that the nuns have opted out of the discussion and let the bishops take the heat.

The “nuns” are really sisters and their average age is about 76 now. They’ve been out of the picture for a decade at least. The reason for this is complex but centers around the fact that they went AWOL a while back and when that happens you can’t get new recruits. Young people looking for orthodox religious commitment for life are not interested in what they have to offer.

Also: Christianity includes service to others, but Christianity doesn’t EQUAL service to others. It has theological and historical content. And in fact, it’s primarily a RELIGION within which we worship GOD, not people and not our own efforts.

 

[PaulinVA]

Free will.

We encounter people exercising free will all the time. That’s just the way it is. No one is being punished,* per se*, it’s just people exercising free will.

 

[iloveangels]

Free will.

We encounter people exercising free will all the time. That’s just the way it is. No one is being punished,* per se*, it’s just people exercising free will.

Yes, Paul but it’s not just a coin toss. People have reasons for the things they choose to do, whether they choose to be honest about what those motivations are or not. People also make mistakes. And sin, let’s not forget sin.

 

[PaulinVA]

Yes, Paul but it’s not just a coin toss. People have reasons for the things they choose to do, whether they choose to be honest about what those motivations are or not. People also make mistakes. And sin, let’s not forget sin.

Yes, I agree. My point is that it’s* people*, not* God*.

 

[iloveangels]

Yes, I agree. My point is that it’s* people*, not* God*.

Yes, I think you’re onto something. I don’t think God is picking on us or anything. I think that many Catholics have been so sloppy and ignorant for so long about the Church and religion in general, that this is the only logical outcome we can get at this point. I’d buy that.

 

[livingwordunity]

Free will.

We encounter people exercising free will all the time. That’s just the way it is. No one is being punished,* per se*, it’s just people exercising free will.

Yes. God allows people to exercise their free will. But he allows it even when an evil choice is made when a greater good can come from it. In the case of the American government being on the fast track to being a persecutor of Christians, God is allowing this evil because a trial by fire of Christians will increase a sense of urgency with our faith. The faithful will cling more to the faith while facing the persecution, and the dissenters will walk away. Catholics in America will be a lot fewer in number but more orthodox and faithful. This of course is no excuse for any of us to choose evil since it’s not for us to “play God”.

 

[JimG]

Yes. God allows people to exercise their free will. But he allows it even when an evil choice is made when a greater good can come from it. In the case of the American government being on the fast track to being a persecutor of Christians, God is allowing this evil because a trial by fire of Christians will increase a sense of urgency with our faith. The faithful will cling more to the faith while facing the persecution, and the dissenters will walk away. Catholics in America will be a lot fewer in number but more orthodox and faithful. This of course is no excuse for any of us to choose evil since it’s not for us to “play God”.

Yes, I can’t disagree with this, even though it’s a way of saying that “persecution is good for you.”

The Church has made a lot of mistakes, and not just the Catholic Church, but Protestants as well. The Protestants began caving in to the secular culture even before Catholics. Witness their abandonment of their 400 year old traditional teaching against contraception.