Why God doesn't stop Satan?

[Sparkythedog]

No doubt you have a python running free in your basement, symbolically speaking that is.

However, the message you may have been trying to communicate is a reaction to your interpretation of Genesis.
If that is the case and you want to understand it, you should ask plainly about what your issue is with it. Otherwise, what are you doing here?

The third understanding of your cryptic statement is that you have a reptile dangerous to your children in your house. I don’t believe you do, although maybe we should call in Dr Phil.
:tiphat: Puts on Dr Phil hat. “Very curious indeed.”

So, why don’t you fill us in on what you mean.

I assure you that my children are quite safe (no need to call Dr. Phil ) so long as they respect and obey my commands. I love them very much, more than my own life, and I could not bear to see them harmed. That is why I’ve forbidden them from going near the basement where my very large and hungry snake lives.

I have made the rules because I know what is best for my children. I will keep them safe so long as they trust in me. Though the snake may be alluring with its vibrant color and smooth texture, they must never go near it or even look into the basement. That python sits waiting for the basement door to open so that she can roam free upstairs. And if that happens, none of my family is safe.

Can you see now? My point is, if my children love me, they will follow the rules. And if they follow the rules, they can live safe, happy and full lives.

P.S. I like the story of Genesis very much. You were perceptive in that interpretation.

 

[Sparkythedog]

Would anyone (except Christine ) say I’m making good choices as a parent? And if not, why?

 

[CHRISTINE77]

I assure you that my children are quite safe (no need to call Dr. Phil ) so long as they respect and obey my commands. I love them very much, more than my own life, and I could not bear to see them harmed. That is why I’ve forbidden them from going near the basement where my very large and hungry snake lives.

I have made the rules because I know what is best for my children. I will keep them safe so long as they trust in me. Though the snake may be alluring with its vibrant color and smooth texture, they must never go near it or even look into the basement. That python sits waiting for the basement door to open so that she can roam free upstairs. And if that happens, none of my family is safe.

Can you see now? My point is, if my children love me, they will follow the rules. And if they follow the rules, they can live safe, happy and full lives.

P.S. I like the story of Genesis very much. You were perceptive in that interpretation.

Disobedient children usually end up leading dangerous, unhappy and empty lives.

 

[ffg]

Sparky,

I don’t like it when my kids play in the front yard, so I tell them to stay in the back.

That’s for safety.

I don’t have a problem with your analysis.

It’s not a perfect parallel, if you look at the object of the warning from God, but what is perfect outside of God?

 

[ffg]

Disobedient children usually end up leading dangerous, unhappy and empty lives.

I would disagree with this statement, but I can’t say I’ve seen the data. Perhaps you have it?

I think it’s quite natural to disobey, or have selective listening and tune out parents as children.

It is amazing what a coach can get kids to do where a parent has trouble with small things.

So I don’t think this results as you stated, ‘usually’ toward a rather negative end there in appearance.

Take care,

Mike

 

[fhansen]

Satan was responsible for cheating of Adam and Eve which resulted in fall of human. He also is responsible for all crime around the Glob. So why God doesn’t stop him?

When tempted, no one should say, “God is tempting me.” For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; 14but each person is tempted when they are dragged away by their own evil desire and enticed. 15Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death. James 1:13-15

Satan really doesn’t have to do much either.

 

[CHRISTINE77]

I would disagree with this statement, but I can’t say I’ve seen the data. Perhaps you have it?

I think it’s quite natural to disobey, or have selective listening and tune out parents as children.

It is amazing what a coach can get kids to do where a parent has trouble with small things.

So I don’t think this results as you stated, ‘usually’ toward a rather negative end there in appearance.

Take care,

Mike

If a parent is a good parent, he/she will guide his/her children down the road of life until it is time for them to make their own decisions. I’m not saying that children can’t question their parents but to deliberately disobey them is really just asking for trouble down the road. Rebellious children usually have hard lives.

But, all kidding aside, getting back to Sparky, I know he is creating an allegory of God the father who tells Adam and Eve not to eat that apple. Since they were disobedient, they were cast out of paradise. It’s not really the same story, but that is what Sparky is trying to imitate. For one thing, Sparky’s kids can’t say kids forever and live under the shelter of his home with no responsibilities. God was giving Adam and Eve a paradise forever, until they disobeyed. But Sparky can’t give that to his children even if they obey everything he says.

He can threaten them with death by snake if they disobey, but he can’t really threaten them with the loss of paradise. Sparky’s kids will lose their innocence no matter if they obey or disobey.

Actually what is your point Sparky? Are you saying God doesn’t stop Satan because he wants to threaten them? You think God is using scare tactics?

 

[ffg]

Interesting. I think that’s good analysis.

As you started, we should list disconnects between the two stories.

I Mentioned the object earlier.

In the Bible it’s not protection from an evil that is similar to what we do with children to keep them safe.

It’s not even ‘protection from’ anything. It’s more similar to say ‘go to bed, because I said to go to bed’.

So to not, in disobedience, is hurting the relationship, not ‘in harms way’ of a potential external evil, if that makes sense.

Take care,

Mike

 

[Bahman]

Satan was not responsible for Adam’s fall, it was Adam himself who was responsible. Satan gave him the idea, but it was up to Adam to decide.

I don’t think so. Adam and Eve were just two naive individuals. Satan temped them and they did it.

When we do wrong at the suggestion of anyone, aren’t we the ones responsible for taking their advice? It may well be, that bad suggestions are wrong also, the monkey is on the back of the person who made that decision, and not the one who suggested it to us.

So the only ones who can really stop Satan is us, if we no longer listen to him.

We cannot possibly win this fight against Satan. Satan was the closest angle to God. I think he is much smarter than us and we couldn’t beat him.

 

[Bahman]

Since when?

 

[Bahman]

For us to all have free will, there needs to be an ‘alternative’ to God.

We don’t need an alternative for God to exercise our free will.

If Satan did not ‘fall’, who would have been there to tempt adam and eve, who would be in the world today, whispering temptations into our ears that draw us towards sin and away from God?

So you think that fall of angles together with fall of man was necessary?

Satan is doing exactly the job he was created for.

So that sounds to me that God setup everything!? This is means that God is responsible for fall of angels and man.

Imo, the story of the fall was just something humans could relate to, to help us grasp a larger concept, but in reality, an angel would be intelligent enough to realize trying to overthrow heaven would be literally impossible, heck, even humans can recognize this.

What is the larger concept?

 

[Bahman]

God lets people choose. Free will, Bahman, free will.

But the creation could be much better without Satan. We could still exercise our free will.

 

[Bahman]

Well…because God is wise and knows Satan from the inside out, because He created Satan.

If God stopped Satan now, then Satan can turn that into victory for himself, as he can say, only the more powerful God can stop him…so defeat would turn to victory.

But we cannot beat Satan. So the only option is that God should stop him otherwise we suffer until the end of time.

 

[Bahman]

I see 2 possible answers to the question has emerged so far.

1. God already has stopped him, but we just have not yet fully seen it take place because we are in between, in time.

So what the source of all cruelty in the world?

1. God gives everyone free will. And by extension He allows us to experience the consequences of those free choices. Kind of like if you bite the hand that feeds you, you may experience what it is like to go hungry. If we didn’t experience the natural consequences of our decisions, both good and bad, then we don’t really have free will. Free will would be a kind of an illusion where the consequence for an action does not correspond to that action. If you never experienced bad consequences for a bad action then you may think there is no reason to believe such action is bad. If you jump off a cliff and nothing ever bad happens as a result you would not think it would be bad to jump off of it. This gives you a false sense of freedom where there are no bad consequences for any action, even if it is intrinsically evil. Having good consequences for good actions and bad consequences for bad actions restores the natural order of things.

But we cannot beat Satan. So what is the point of setting him free?

 

[Bahman]

Satan and his cohorts are “on a leash” so to speak. They can only tempt so much, and God stops them.
We are not tempted without a way out…which is using our free will and the grace that the Lord offers us to resist temptations.

So, we become stronger spiritually when we resist temptations and choose God.

So you are saying that everything was planned by God: Fall of angles, Adam and Eve, and all sufferings related to fall?

 

[Bahman]

It might be for the same reason that I keep a 14 foot Burmese python loose in my basement. I tell my small children not to go down there. But if they choose to disobey me they bring the dire consequences on themselves. But if they follow and honor my command no harm shall come to them.

I am the parent and they are the child. They are to obey my commands because I know what is best. It is out of love that I do what I do. And if they love me they will follow.

Hope this helps.

And who is responsible if your naive children go to basement?

 

[Bahman]

Satan has been vanquished. It has been revealed and we know this as Catholics.
However, it is difficult to believe or appreciate, tied as we are to this world.
We will fully know it at least at the end, when we return to God the life He gives us.
There are consequences to sin and that is what we have to deal with in our Journey to God.

Why God didn’t vanquish Satan at first place, after angles fall? Why God even created Satan knowing the consequences?

 

[ffg]

Isn’t that the evidence that God actively, always loves?

If God knows all and never makes a mistake. Two logical attributes all should be able to apply to God, if He ‘is’.

Then the responsibility lies with the beloved to reflect the love of God, that’s freedom.

Now to be sure, in the case of evil spirits, they have locked in on punting on reflecting the love of God eternally.

But we also have the battle to learn about too.

Allowing satan freedom that comes through active and constant love doesn’t mean God stops other creation from fighting the good fight.

That’s why we say in the St. Michael prayer ‘cast into hell satan and all evil spirits’. Notice we don’t say ‘thank you for casting’, the battle ‘is’, and the result is a known since creation can’t beat God.

It is mind blowing when you really ponder how much freedom we have as God’s children when tied back to the foundation that God knows all and doesn’t error.

That’s a love tough to comprehend, but we can accept and reflect.

Take care,

Mike

 

[Dorothy]

So you are saying that everything was planned by God: Fall of angles, Adam and Eve, and all sufferings related to fall?

It was foreseen by God, not planned by Him.

Angels are not “angles”, it is good to spell correctly.

 

[Bahman]

It was foreseen by God, not planned by Him.

Angels are not “angles”, it is good to spell correctly.

Why God gave access of garden to Satan to save humanity?