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davidv
Guest
Humans are the source of all cruelty in the world. Each of us freely chooses to do evil, and cruel things.
How do you know. Jesus beat him.
He is not free, he is a slave to his evil choice to disobey God.
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davidv
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Bahman
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Bahman
Guest
And Satan tempt us.
Jesus is the only person who is claimed to be sinless.
Of course he is free (if there is any free will) otherwise we could not blame him for his action.
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Bahman
Guest
But God is all powerful. He of course could do better. For example why God didn’t prohibit Satan from going to the garden? This he could do very simply knowing the consequences.
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Sparkythedog
Guest
They are responsible. They’re not naive - I told them about the snake.
Obviously they can’t quite comprehend what it’s like to be crushed to death and then slowly eaten head first. But they should trust in me enough to know that I know what’s best for them. I do love them so.
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Bahman
Guest
But they are naive if they go. Would you keep the snake if you know that your children would go to basement?
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mikekle
Guest
Exactly, God said he did not want ‘mindless robots’ who just worshiped him because that was the only option, so there had to be ‘another choice’. if there is only one option available, thats not much of a choice.
If satan had never rebelled, who would have been there to tempt adam and eve? Who would be in our world today, luring us away from God, testing us? The bible says it is not flesh and blood we wrestle with, so if these evil forces did not exist, where would the temptation come from and would evil even be there as a choice?
You are right…God set everything up a certain way, to reach the desired outcome…a world where there are 2 choices, good and evil, thus giving us the ability to use our free will. If God can see the past, future, and present all at one time, logically, he would seen everything satan would do even before he was created.
The larger concept (or big picture), is just that…a world with 2 choices, good and evil and our ability to choose between the two, basing our decisions on our faith and what we learn from the bible.
I believe we are just told the story of the fall of satan and 1/3 of the angels so we can better relate to it, humans can definitely relate to pride and sin, but we cannot really relate to a God who sets everything up in very specific ways to ensure a proper outcome…In other words, the story of the fall of satan is easier for us to understand and relate to versus everything being ‘engineered’ a certain way.
See what Im saying?
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ffg
Guest
What gives any idea A&E don’t sin without the snake?
Here we can pull back and recognize a theme for ‘why God does not…’.
It’s a constant answer repeated over and over.
Understanding how love works is key to moving past this sticking point.
Take care,
Mike
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CHRISTINE77
Guest
It was a test. They failed.
I guess God didn’t want naïve adults in his world. Knowledge is really what makes us human. Otherwise we would just be like animals.
You do know that the Adam and Eve story is an allegory don’t you Bahman?
It explains why we do NOT live in the Garden of Eden. It’s about growing up and having to have adult responsibilities in this world and then death. We are only naïve children for a short time in our lives, and it seems like a perfect world, but if we are disobedient to our parents there are consequences.
Of course there are other interpretations of the Adam and Eve story, but that’s what makes it such a great allegory.
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CHRISTINE77
Guest
that was driving me nuts too!
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Dorothy
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Sparkythedog
Guest
Get rid of the snake?! Are you serious?!
My children are not naive. I’ve told them the horror that they will bring upon themselves if the betray my commands. I’ve warned them of its lightning reflexes, the crushing coils, the rows of inescapable teeth.
I already know they will go into the basement. It’s happened before, and it pains me to have lost a child to that horrible reptile.
But, if I remove the snake, how will my children understand the importance of obedience. They heard firsthand the consequences - the muffled screams and then deafening silence. That was a most important lesson for them. They will never allow themselves to be tempted to the basement again.
I allow this so that good may come of it. I love my family to much too stop it.
Stepping back to reality for a moment (this story is starting to get a bit dark): Would anyone say from my story that I am a loving parent or that my actions show me as anything but a psychopath?
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ffg
Guest
Naive is the wrong word when someone does something they knew they shouldn’t do.
Since sin ‘is’, should we just back our way up to - ‘why did God create if…’?
What is real is that we are here and you and I have the ability to think and act differently similar to what the tree represents in the story, a counter that exists to show creation they are loved due to the freedom that exists for creation.
Take care,
Mike
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CHRISTINE77
Guest
Like I said, your story is loosely based on the snake in Adam and Eve, but God didn’t tell them anything about a snake, (unlike you - psychopathic dad). He just said don’t eat from the tree of life. The tree of life was about losing innocence. The snake was more of a sideline character, not the bogyman in the basement, and in the end he was punished too.
There are many stories like this in ancient religions. The Greek myth of Pandora’s box is a good example. Pandora was told not to open the box but when she disobeyed and opened it, all the evils flew out, leaving only hope inside once she had closed it again.
If you are intimating that God is a psychopath, think again Sparky. Yours is indeed a dark story with little meaning. The story of Adam and Eve is a deep story of how the fall of mankind happened.
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Sparkythedog
Guest
Not exactly. While my dad character said he liked the Genesis tale, my story here is not a parody of it. My story is about humanity as we are today. The children are us. The snake is (of course) Satan. The basement is hell, the house is our world, and the dad is God. This is our current condition with fully revealed knowledge of good and evil.
I am asking what you think of the dad in my story. Is he a good parent parent? Is his parenting lesson justified? Do you think he really loves his children?
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CHRISTINE77
Guest
So God is telling humanity not to go to Hell or Satan will eat them up? As long as we don’t go to Hell we will not be in danger from Satan, and God will provide a safe world for us? This story doesn’t make any sense to me.
What do you mean by “fully revealed knowledge of good and evil”? Those children seem very much in the dark. All they know is that they better not go down into the basement or the snake will eat them.
I think he is a weirdo and wants to put fear into his children as a means of power.
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YosefYosep
Guest
An excerpt from Job:
“From what vantage-point wast thou watching, when I laid the foundations of the earth? Tell me, whence comes this sure knowledge of thine? 5 Tell me, since thou art so wise, was it thou or I designed earth’s plan, measuring it out with the line? 6 How came its base to stand so firm; who laid its corner-stone? 7 To me, that day, all the morning stars sang together, all the powers of heaven uttered their joyful praise. 8 Was it thou or I shut in the sea behind bars? No sooner had it broken forth from the womb 9 than I dressed it in swaddling-clothes of dark mist, 10 set it within bounds of my own choosing, made fast with bolt and bar; 11 Thus far thou shalt come, said I, and no further; here let thy swelling waves spend their force.”
Job wants to know why God permits Satan to commit evil against him. God replies, saying that he is the master of all time, space–of existence itself. Job should not expect to know the workings of God.
The philosopher Peter Kreeft once told an analogous story about a father he knew who had to watch his toddler son go through multiple surgeries. The son had no idea why his father was presiding over his surgical suffering. The son could not foresee the greater good it would achieve in the future, while the father could. Being limited in his capacity to understand the situation, the toddler looked at his father with hopelessness, wondering why his father permits such evil.
“From what vantage-point wast thou watching, when I laid the foundations of the earth? Tell me, whence comes this sure knowledge of thine? 5 Tell me, since thou art so wise, was it thou or I designed earth’s plan, measuring it out with the line? 6 How came its base to stand so firm; who laid its corner-stone? 7 To me, that day, all the morning stars sang together, all the powers of heaven uttered their joyful praise. 8 Was it thou or I shut in the sea behind bars? No sooner had it broken forth from the womb 9 than I dressed it in swaddling-clothes of dark mist, 10 set it within bounds of my own choosing, made fast with bolt and bar; 11 Thus far thou shalt come, said I, and no further; here let thy swelling waves spend their force.”
Job wants to know why God permits Satan to commit evil against him. God replies, saying that he is the master of all time, space–of existence itself. Job should not expect to know the workings of God.
The philosopher Peter Kreeft once told an analogous story about a father he knew who had to watch his toddler son go through multiple surgeries. The son had no idea why his father was presiding over his surgical suffering. The son could not foresee the greater good it would achieve in the future, while the father could. Being limited in his capacity to understand the situation, the toddler looked at his father with hopelessness, wondering why his father permits such evil.
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Lormar
Guest
Maybe someone can explain to me why God would allow priests to sodomize young altar boys knowing full well that these young boys would later turn to either a life of drugs and prostitution, or commit suicide.
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