Why God should need a messenger?

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987mk said:
God created death.
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What does that mean? What does it entail?

Do you know that, exactly?

As far as I can tell it is
  1. a restriction of the power of evil, and/or
  2. the end, extinction or terminus of a contingently living being.
Would God be in the wrong with regard to either of the two definitions?
 
Peter_Plato said:
What does that mean? What does it entail?

Do you know that, exactly?

As far as I can tell it is
  1. a restriction of the power of evil, and/or
  2. the end, extinction or terminus of a contingently living being.
Would God be in the wrong with regard to either of the two definitions?
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You seek to overcomplicate everything and I’ve no idea why.

Your God created everything. Your God is apparently all powerful, so to assert that God proved he can defeat death.

That’s absurd. Of course God can defeat death, he’s all powerful and without God, there is no life and therefore no death.
 
987mk said:
The choice only exists if God forced us into existence and then forces us to choose.
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And God can only “force” us if we are outside the auspices of his will and if he is Being Itself then being outside his will means we are “outside” of Being Itself, i.e., we don’t exist. This might be instructive.

We are not “forced” to exist, we either do or we don’t. To entertain the possibility that Being “forces” us to be might mean we don’t exist, but are in the process of making the choice. I would think very carefully about this.
 
Peter_Plato said:
What does that mean? What does it entail?

Do you know that, exactly?

As far as I can tell it is
  1. a restriction of the power of evil, and/or
  2. the end, extinction or terminus of a contingently living being.
Would God be in the wrong with regard to either of the two definitions?
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We believe that you either choose death by falling away from God (as a result of the choice not to fallow God) or you choose life so that even if you die you will live forever in heaven. Death is the absence of God’s love that is not defined by mortal flesh and thus we have eternal life. “God gave His only son so that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.” John 3:16. The life in flesh is only a temporary stage of one’s eternal life.
 
tifischer said:
We believe that you either choose death by falling away from God (as a result of the choice not to fallow God) or you choose life so that even if you die you will live forever in heaven. Death is the absence of God’s love that is not defined by mortal flesh and thus we have eternal life. “God gave His only son so that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.” John 3:16. The life in flesh is only a temporary stage of one’s eternal life.
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I would not be able to choose death if God had not demanded that I exist.

Without my existence, there is no choosing of death and there is no eternal damnation.
 
tifischer said:
I did not say that it was a promise that it is our faith which is based on hope. It is what we believe…I did not say what we promise. Why you suggest otherwise is beyond me.
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…because you said the Church teaches that unbaptized babies go to heaven.

The Church has no idea if they go to heaven, the Church only hopes that the babies go to heaven.
 
tifischer said:
Have you never heard of someone who dies and comes back to life…their body is pronounced dead but are recessitated or the spirit is returned to give life to the body? A great example occurred just last winter in America when a boy fell through ice. The dr pronounced him dead. The mother was allowed to enter the room to see her son before they were to take him to the bag. The mother called to the Holy Spirit of God to give him life and the boy came back to life. The boy had been pronounced dead long enough that he would have otherwise suffered severe brain damage but their was no brain damage and fully recovered. This kind of miracle was unheard of before Jesus. Thanks be to God for miracles!
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Falling in freezing water helps prevent cellular decay once the heart stops beating and people have come back before in similar situations.

Now, post the link of this news stories. I’d love to read it.
 
JoeFreedom said:
Agreed. Even the angels had free will. They had free will to choose to love God or to not love God. The ones that chose not to are now demons in Hell.
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Did the angels have a choice to exist or not exist?

Did God make that decision for them or was it their choice?
 
987mk said:
You seek to overcomplicate everything and I’ve no idea why.

Your God created everything. Your God is apparently all powerful, so to assert that God proved he can defeat death.

That’s absurd. Of course God can defeat death, he’s all powerful and without God, there is no life and therefore no death.
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Obviously people did not think that God could defeat death…people of that time kept trying to overtake Israel…the Old Testament has a pattern…God raises Israel, His chosen peaceful people and others come to conquer them and the temple gets destroyed. God raises the people back up and the temple gets destroyed again and again…the world is not getting the message, you see. God sends Jesus to resurrect so everyone knows now you cannot kill God. Matthew 3:9 “I tell you that out of these stones God can raise up children for Abraham.”. No matter how many Christians were killed God would always raise up new ones in their place. This was very bad for the waring nations because a waring nation’s strategy is to conquer the leader and the rest will fall…but if they CANNOT kill the leader, then they know they will never win. Christians gained their freedom to worship and the first emperor was Christian not through war…but through love…and from then on king after king relinquished their sovereignty to God…no more kings as self-proclaimed gods. Thanks be to God!
 
987mk said:
…because you said the Church teaches that unbaptized babies go to heaven.

The Church has no idea if they go to heaven, the Church only hopes that the babies go to heaven.
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But I did not say promise … it is faith based on hope. You misunderstood what I said.
 
987mk said:
Falling in freezing water helps prevent cellular decay once the heart stops beating and people have come back before in similar situations.

Now, post the link of this news stories. I’d love to read it.
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He was pronounced dead for 45 minutes (now obviously how he died does not overcome the fact that he was under water for 15 minutes and dead for 45)…frozen or not this was a miracle and not the first…but a recent very good example. Please notice that I already posted the news story for you, it was just after the initial post you referenced. Truly an awesome witness of God’s power in our own time, thanks be to God.
 
987mk said:
I would not be able to choose death if God had not demanded that I exist.

Without my existence, there is no choosing of death and there is no eternal damnation.
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Your parents chose to conceive you and God made it so.

Without your existence you would not have life, love, joy or any of the other treasures of life and heaven. And, now that you are alive in choosing Jesus there is no choosing death and there is no eternal damnation : ) you can bring the love of God into people’s lives and hope in all things. Even before I became a Christian I had to admit that I wanted to believe there is a heaven…it’s a pretty good idea even to an agnostic. :cool:
 
Bahman said:
Why God who is omniscient, omnipotent and omnipresent should need a messenger to tell the truth? Just speak out!
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"I doubt that God “needs” a messenger. I expect that He understands our minds and our responses so, in His wisdom He knows that we are the ones that “need” a messenger and could not face Him.

Perhaps He wants all His created Souls talking to one another.
 
tifischer said:
He was pronounced dead for 45 minutes (now obviously how he died does not overcome the fact that he was under water for 15 minutes and dead for 45)…frozen or not this was a miracle and not the first…but a recent very good example. Please notice that I already posted the news story for you, it was just after the initial post you referenced. Truly an awesome witness of God’s power in our own time, thanks be to God.
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It’s not a miracle. There is a natural explanation as to why he survived.

A miracle is something that cannot be explained by natural means.

Here’s the explanation and an account of a 22 month old who survived after being under icy water for 2 hours.

iflscience.com/health-and-medicine/child-survived-almost-2-hours-cpr-after-falling-icy-stream-how

It would be a miracle if a child survived after being submerged in a hot tub for 2 hours.
 
987mk said:
Who decided that I would exist?
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To what extent do you, as you, exist? How do you know for certain that you actually do?

Perhaps what you are rejecting or think you are “forced” to accept is not existence but a pseudo-existence of sorts, separated from Being Itself.

Ergo, you don’t fully exist, therefore you aren’t accepting or rejected existence, but a crippled notion of it. Which means you aren’t “forced” to exist since what you have isn’t what you suppose it is.
 
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