Why has the West lost Christ?

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mathematoons

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I just read a quote from Dostoevsky saying, “The West has lost Christ. For that reason alone, it is dying.” He wrote that in the 19th century!

I agree with this assessment. Things have only gotten much worse. My question is, why do you think the West has lost Christ?
 
  1. Scientism – the reduction of all existence to the empirically observable. Well, since you can’t empirically measure things like justice, it’s easy to see how getting rid of such things can have ill effects.
  2. Marxism, the religion of which is atheism, the government of which is communism.
 
Catherder, 👍 But then, of course, the question is: why did the West run after Marxism and scientism?
 
Material comfort.

The vocations are coming from the poorest regions of the world: Asia, Africa and Latin America. Materially poor, spiritually rich. And the converse is true.
 
We are selfishly seeking more entertainment for the self, which causes more people to be intolerant of marriage and responsible parenthood, which creates more dependents on the State, which weakens nations due to the sum of all the individual selfishness. NO birth control was our saving grace that forced most people to grow up and mature since we were going to work hard for pennines and do whatever it took to see our kids survive. But now that we can choose birth control for more casual sex, witness the slow dying and de-evolution of populations due to individual selfishness.
 
mathematoons said:
I just read a quote from Dostoevsky saying, “The West has lost Christ. For that reason alone, it is dying.” He wrote that in the 19th century!

I agree with this assessment. Things have only gotten much worse. My question is, why do you think the West has lost Christ?
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Why does anyone loose Christ? Who knows what lies in a man’s heart but God. Many have “lost Christ” before any so-called “modernism” swept in, and many will continue to reject Christ now, and many will at a later point.

We can certainly point to things that particularly trouble our time. However, we cannot allow ourselves to worry over them. Learn how they are wrong, teach those you love how they are wrong, and leave the rest to God.

On a slightly related note, this question implies that the “East” did not loose Christ. It is important to note that Dosteoevsky was from Russia, which was an Orthodox country, and many therein considered anything outside Orthodoxy to be outside of God. Thus, the statement “the West has lost Christ” could merely be reference to the fact that because the West was not Orthodox, the West did not possess Christ.
 
Cat_Herder said:
  1. Scientism – the reduction of all existence to the empirically observable. Well, since you can’t empirically measure things like justice, it’s easy to see how getting rid of such things can have ill effects.
  2. Marxism, the religion of which is atheism, the government of which is communism.
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Winner. Along with the standard cycle of growth and then corruption.
 
You really must read Solzhenitsyn’s speech at Harvard in 1978:

columbia.edu/cu/augustine/arch/solzhenitsyn/harvard1978.html

He draws striking and maddening parallels between our <materialistic, nominally Christian> world, and that of a <materialistic, avowedly atheist> communist state.

To me, the loss of the sense of the spiritual (materialism) is at the root of it. Reminds me of the “this-worldliness” mentioned by Dietrich von Hildebrand in his books.
 
mathematoons said:
I just read a quote from Dostoevsky saying, “The West has lost Christ. For that reason alone, it is dying.” He wrote that in the 19th century!

I agree with this assessment.
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Proof or it didn’t happen.
 
In his book “Rediscover Catholicism”, Matthew Kelly observes and defends that the main three prevalent philosophies in western culture/society are individualism, hedonism, and minimalism.

Individualism - westerners are only concerned with “me, me, me” ideologies.
Hedonism - they are so concerned with the “feel good” mentality that they have lost sight of the joys of sacrifice and service.
Minimalism - they only do what is bare minimum and the only time they go the extra mile is in the area of self-advancement.

As Matthew Kelly further explains, “it is not enough that we merely survive. we should thrive!”
 
BornAgain2010 said:
In his book “Rediscover Catholicism”, Matthew Kelly observes and defends that the main three prevalent philosophies in western culture/society are individualism, hedonism, and minimalism.

Individualism - westerners are only concerned with “me, me, me” ideologies.
Hedonism - they are so concerned with the “feel good” mentality that they have lost sight of the joys of sacrifice and service.
Minimalism - they only do what is bare minimum and the only time they go the extra mile is in the area of self-advancement.

As Matthew Kelly further explains, “it is not enough that we merely survive. we should thrive!”
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I think that’s pretty bang on the money.
 
“The reason why Christ is unknown today is because His Mother is unknown.” - Saint Cardinal John Henry Newman
 
For me bar none it seems to be empiricism. If there is no observable proof, then people will not believe it. I guess this is the negative consequences of the amazing progress we have made in science with the method. It works great for the natural sciences, not so much for the social sciences (I hate that name, I would rather it be called the liberal arts). People don’t understand reason, logic, and argumentation anymore. It’s really a shame. Basically everyone is a positivist now.

By the way, I’m opposed to using the term individualism in this sense. Individualism in analysis is good because we stray away from the errors of trying to analyze societies and instead analyze individuals. This is correct because it is individuals, and not societies that act. Instead of using individualism, let’s just call the issue selfishness and materialism. Yes, that sounds much better.
 
Bohm_Bawerk said:
No evidence.
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No scientific evidence you mean. We can’t produce him in a test tube.

Yet He’s been the most influential figure in history.

As for the West - affluence, a divided church, hedonism, the parable of the rich man…
 
Bob_Crowley said:
No scientific evidence you mean. We can’t produce him in a test tube.

Yet He’s been the most influential figure in history.

As for the West - affluence, a divided church, hedonism, the parable of the rich man…
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And the division of Church and State…

Which is one reason I think God is letting the Moslems challenge us. They don’t recognise any division of Church and State.
 
You can’t lose what you never had. 🤷 The “West” is a rather broad statement. This would be as opposed to the post WW-II era I assume?

Their was a teaching process which begin to lack in the 60’s and in the 70’s do to the parents and the teenagers refusal to cooperate. History outlines in pretty well. The compromise came when children received communion which in many regards as with Jewish tradition is a right of passage. Many parent’s made the mistake of allowing their children to discontinue Mass etc. There childrens, children in many case’s never bothered taking their children to Church, Sacrements etc. Thus the resulting generations really have no real understanding. Protestant, Islam, Mormans compound the issue. Buddism become a fad through transendental meditation.

Of couse this isn’t with all Catholics. The Bible was assumed during this period of being a Fairy Tale till Archaeological evidence supporting it arrived, God was banned in schools. abortion became legal 62-73. The country was in a state of protest over War/Freedom and Civil Rights. Children were traumatized by Vietnam bought live daily on Color TV in all its magnitude. American lost some great leaders is a short period of time. There’s a long list. By 69 Peace pretty much turned to murder, drugs, crime. And the domino effect came into play.

Alfred the Great summed it up well, “Remember the evil that befell us, when men stopped learning, and stopped teaching each other.”

There’s a very long list of heresy today which includes just about every one since 1-AD. Add the atheism, communism, secularism, relativism, materialistic aspects of more modern society, and a vacuum is created. And what happens with a vacuum? It must be filled with something else as the laws of physics state. At the moment with strident clamor this appears to be Islam.

It goes on and on, none pretty. There’s hope and faith is not dead. However it will take a very big effort to teach and speak up. Its called each one, teach one. Teaching must be done through love and state of actual care, but firmly. You have a chance to vote for Pro-Life, Relgious Freedom in 2012 etc. However, I still “Catholic’s” who seem to think this is acceptable. 🤷 You have to ask yourself, what am I doing to correct this problem?

The church plays no fault in the above process. That is a falacy and assumption, which is based on no fact. All the Popes since Pius XII have responded correctly.

Peace.
 
smndtupidisaftr said:
This is correct because it is individuals, and not societies that act. Instead of using individualism, let’s just call the issue selfishness and materialism. Yes, that sounds much better.
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This is a decent post also. The whole is each individual. And each individual must understand the role you must play.

One must also realize. If you do not know something, then you cannot remember it or convey it. In some case’s today we see Catholics returning to the church after decades. The saving grace being that somewhere, somehow they were able to “remember”. At some point after the baby boomers, we will have to assume this will cease to exist. When your learned behavior is completely contrary to Catholicism, then all you know will continue to confirm what you do know. Its a very hard process which takes an open-mind to overcome. The first obstacle with behavior, is denial that a problem even exists. Here is part of the reason its much easier to work with the poor. They know they need help. When and individual has gained some type of success, or is making it. Its pretty hard to convince them their equation to success in incorrect. Rationalize, justify etc. See things for what they are, not how you think they are, or how you would like them to be.

The Catholic Church IMHO has been a Sacred Secret. While the New Evangelization is an interesting concept of the CC. Catholics in the pews seem to remain very silent and I don’t see the outreach by the laity. Catholics really have to take this process through initiative much further. An announcement at the pulpit will not get it. There has to be a “personal effort” which is also lacking today because of the computer age. You see new members coming in your church, reach out to them. Make them feel at home. Bible study is seriously lacking in the Catholic Church.

Many attitudes still exist and continue from the 50-60 era in ethnic/racial aspects. You still see the Italian or Polish, Irish community gravitate toward their church where they feel most comfortable. Which is fine. However I still hear ethnic comments, I still see that indifference when Blacks, Hispanic Americans, Asian’s enter the church’s. These should be the “first” individuals one reachs out to, for without doubt they more than likely feel the most apprehensive, and uncomfortable. So what message will you give them? What first-impression will they leave with? First impressions are lasting, make no mistake about this.

You have an opportunity through a period granted of Divine Mercy. Take it while its on the table. The church is still a very-very large today, the largest religion on earth. and their is very good opportunity to take this country back. Or better yet to complete a process started a very long time ago and never finished. The inter-racial aspect of the CC is a Blessing which you may not be able to see. And in the end this will be the sword which destroys many other faiths.

So here you have some other ideas to further move ahead.

Peace
 
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