Why Hostility for the Latin Mass?

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Entwhistler

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The bishop of my diocese is not necessarily a fan of the Latin Mass. He allows the FSSP to exist in it and a few priests here and there to say it but overall he does not give it much thought. However, there are some priests who are downright against TLM. My question is, what makes a person thoroughly against the Latin Mass? I can understand a person disliking it and saying it isn’t for them. Personal taste there. No argument from me. But where do people come from raving on about TLM and vigorously protesting the implementation of an extra Mass in Latin. Or maybe finding some push back from the bishop in wanting that Mass? I’m not trying to whine and gripe. I’m seriously curious about this hate for all things Latin. I won’t say resistance because I can more understand that. But the hate?
 
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Resistance perhaps? Would that be accurate?

Hatred for the Mass in any valid form is incomprehensible.
 
I can’t think of anyone on these boards that hates the Latin Mass.
Some of us just prefer to worship in our native language, which for me is Spanish, but I work in a bi-lingual parish, so it’s all good.
Who hates?
 
I’m sorry you have experienced this.

To be honest with you, while I have heard those who don’t like the EF, I can’t recall any expressing anything close to hatred for it.

But actually, and unfortunately, I have heard more than a few supporters of the EF speak in very disparaging terms about the OF.
 
Who are these people (I haven’t seen anyone on these boards ranting against TLM) and have you tried asking them why they dislike Latin Mass?

If they are priests, is it that TLM makes a lot of extra work for them, or that they think regular OF in the vernacular is a better way to reach people spiritually, or do they disagree with the holier-than-thou and Pope-criticizing attitudes of some of the TLM proponents?
 
Oh, I don’t mean anyone on these boards. Maybe the lone wacko, but I was meaning more out in the dioceses. I just can’t fathom those who oppose those people who want Mass in Latin.
 
I think it’s a supply and demand thing. In this ARchdiocese, our ArchBishop has a degree in liturgy and is not opposed to it per se, but no one is asking for it. There is ONE Latin parish. Not large numbers but holding its own, with Sunday school, 2 FSSP priests, 2 Masses on Sunday.
People who seek Latin are told to go there, to kee that one place afloat. They’re happy to do so, but he doesn’t have priests or laity asking for it.
They have to think how they are going to support a parish as well as simply giving permissions.
 
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It could be a gut-reaction. One of the things the Catholic Church has been criticized for - whether fairly or unfairly - is for a long time having the majority of its worship and scripture in a dead language that only the educated few could comprehend. It could be that priests who are so firmly against Latin Masses are worried about the church seeming user-unfriendly.
 
Given that we have people running around who get in a tizzy if they don’t like the Mass music, the priest’s shoes, or the practice of holding or not holding hands during the Our Father, it’s a short hop skip and jump to strong feelings about the TLM Mass. I can imagine how odd the TLM must look to some folks much younger than I whose parents and maybe even grandparents grew up post-Vatican II. I took Latin in high school, so between that and my mom i have a rudimentary understanding of Latin prayers, but if you never had any exposure to the language or to the Latin Mass then you might feel like Mass had just been made incomprehensible. Add in the views that some (not all) TLM supporters have about women, appropriate dress, fasting before communion or skipping it entirely if feeling unworthy, etc and it seems likely to me that some subset of Catholics will not be supporters of TLM.
 
They’re out there. Those who truly HATE the EF tend to be older…individuals who lived through the reforms and got caught up in the “out with the old, in with the new” mentality on overdrive. But you’re right that in the vast majority of cases its indifference, not hatred.
 
Ask the Bishop. Until then, we risk babbling on meaninglessly. And, you will also notice that a certain segment of the Latin Mass advocates are vigorously opposed to the Novus Ordo mass. While no one has ever claimed that the Latin Mass is heresy, we certainly hear that about the NO.

It goes both ways and the devil delights in division.
 
Oh yes…the “Novus Ordo” is “inherently irreverent” or “eliminates all references to sacrifice” and other such nonsense.
 
Yep,we could say" feel strongly about" or " dislike "
or something,but hate doesn t seem appropriate. Agree.
How would you rephrase it?
 
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I have yet to meet anyone who “hates” the EF - and I have been around for 71 years. I do know some near my age (on either side) who may miss the chant, or Palestrina that was sung in some parishes, but I know of no one personally who misses the Mass being said in Latin. That isn’t hate; it is preference - and a very strong preference.

My mother graduated from high school in about 1935 (there were 5 in her class) and always was close to the Church. When I was in grade school in the 1950’s, she would get up early when I had to serve at the 6:30 a.m. Mass and drive the 4 miles to the church.

About 15 or 20 years ago, out of curiosity, I asked her what she thought of Vatican 2; her immediate response was “Oh! The Mass!”. I asked her what she meant, and she said “Oh! The Mass in English!”. This was a woman who at 94 was driving herself 7 miles to go to daily Mass.

She never commented about the difference in rubrics, and frankly, most people I know who went to Mass back then, and go now, couldn’t really tell you much at all about the difference in rubrics, other than that the priest faces ad populum (a term none of them use, and likely don’t know).

Bishops have fewer active priests than they do parishes. According to CARA, in 2016 there were 25,760 diocesan priests, but only 63%, or about 16,230 active (the rest being retired) to cover 17,230 parishes; and out of all of those parishes, 3,499 don’t have a priest as pastor (in other words, no resident priest).

That leaves bishops with gaps to fill; and as I understand it, only with permission may a priest say 3 Masses a day (Sunday).

So part of the issue is that we are not overflowing with priests, to begin with. Add to that the fact that according to Summorum Pontificum, a priest cannot be required to say the EF adds to the complexity of the issue.

I have a relative who has talked about the matter. He had some Latin in high school, and while in seminary he took Spanish. He made an interesting comment: it took him over 5 years of saying the Mass in Spanish before he could pray the Mass in Spanish.

Yes, he could say the Mass in Spanish. But as he noted, he was not there to simply go through the motions; he was their to pray the Mass, and it was a long and dry period before he became fluent enough to do so. He still does not consider himself fluent. And He noted that with the number of parishioners he had, there simply was no way to drop one of the three Masses he said each Sunday and replace it with the EF, for a few people. He guessed that their might possibly be 25 in the parish who would attend an EF. Maybe.
 
Entwhistler said:
The bishop of my diocese is not necessarily a fan of the Latin Mass. He allows the FSSP to exist in it and a few priests here and there to say it but overall he does not give it much thought. However, there are some priests who are downright against TLM…But the hate?
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“Hate” is an extremely strong word that you have misused here. I will let you know what I don’t attend the EF Mass more than a handful of times a year here locally.

I’ll start off my saying that some have made similar claims in misguided attempts to appear as liturgical martyrs. Most Catholics don’t care one way or the other about the EF Mass! They might have no interest in attending one, but that doesn’t mean they care about the Mass one way or the other. They certainly don’t have hatred for the EF Mass.

Anyway, when Summorum Pontificum was issued, our bishop had only been in his position for a few months but I think he handled things pretty well. He chose 4 existing parishes that are nice, “traditional” and in good geographic locations so anyone in the diocese could attend the EF if they wished to. The pastor of the parish nearest me really got into “setting up” for the celebration of the EF Mass. The only issue was that he and his parochial vicar were already celebrating 2-3 Masses each/Sunday. No problem, the bishop arranged for a retired prison priest/chaplain to celebrate the EF Masses. Good to go!

I attended the first 3 EF Masses. The first Mass was filled – 750 attendees and it made the local paper. That would not last By week #2 there was already negative talk at coffee after Mass about forming a “TLM-only” parish. They eschewed all help from the hosting parish (except using the facility, furnishings, supplies and utilities of course) and tried to be as independent as they could be which was a mistake. By the third week, attendance was down to 160 and falling. It finally leveled around 90 or so.

The artificially severe/grim demeanor of many was a terrible turn-off. I remember looking at the ushers and each one literally had a grim scowl on their face. The divisive and bitter chatter about “the no”, “the novus ordo”, “modernism”, “abuses” etc. got to be way too much, way too quickly. There was no apparent joy! It turned people off.

They couldn’t form a choir or come up with an organist so their celebrations remain Low EF Masses which also turned some people off. They got permission to hold EF Masses during the week, but rather than celebrating them at the church which was open to them, they do it in one of the individual’s homes.

Rather than embrace becoming part of an established, strong, vibrant parish, they wanted to do their own thing – the very fear many bishops have about the EF! Interestingly enough, both the pastor and the parochial vicar of the parish cut their teeth celebrating the EF Mass and happily fill in for the visiting priest from time to time – but it means them celebrating 4 Masses/Sunday when they do.
 
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You’re right, division is horrible. I think it’s the biggest reason why so many bishops are cautious about the EF Mass.
 
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Tis_Bearself said:
Given that we have people running around who get in a tizzy if they don’t like the Mass music, the priest’s shoes, or the practice of holding or not holding hands during the Our Father, it’s a short hop skip and jump to strong feelings about the TLM Mass. I can imagine how odd the TLM must look to some folks much younger than I whose parents and maybe even grandparents grew up post-Vatican II. I took Latin in high school, so between that and my mom i have a rudimentary understanding of Latin prayers, but if you never had any exposure to the language or to the Latin Mass then you might feel like Mass had just been made incomprehensible. Add in the views that some (not all) TLM supporters have about women, appropriate dress, fasting before communion or skipping it entirely if feeling unworthy, etc and it seems likely to me that some subset of Catholics will not be supporters of TLM.
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It ain’t the form of the Mass in my experience that turns people off. It might not even be the people, but it’s the behavior of many of them that can really turn others off.
 
Hate is a very strong word. I don’t know if the person I am thinking of, actually hates the Latin Mass or not. But, I do know of one “Catholic” blogger, who I have read is on the staff of Catholic Answers, that actually despises conservative Catholics. I really hope it is not true that he is on staff. Have not had time to research it yet. Please do not ask who it is… Thank you.
 
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Hereiam said:
But actually, and unfortunately, I have heard more than a few supporters of the EF speak in very disparaging terms about the OF.
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This. For me, I prefer the OF. Not because the EF isn’t beautiful, but because of the attitudes of the people around so many of my encounters with the EF (both in person and on this and other forums).
 
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