Why I am Drifting from Catholicism to Islam

[wth1257]

Read the story of the three bind men and the Elephant. One blind man thought the Elephant was like the trunk of a tree, one thought that the Elephant was like a great wall made of rubber, one thought the Elephant was like a large snake.

Each acquired only a partial understanding of the truth that they had encountered. The fact is, that God is one. In his omnipotence he manifests himself ion way which appear distinct to different people. It is our own lack of understanding, rather than the nature of God which makes it appear thus.

As for the meaning of the Crucifiction of Christ, no God did not “kill himself” or “kill his son” Jesus’ death and resurrection was a sign of God’s mercy, showing that through Jesus, we can have defeat death and have everlasting life.

If you are an honest searcher, you will soon find that Islam is a horror. That Mohammed himself was a warlord, and enslaver, a murderer, child-rapist, blashemer and self-interested illiterate barbarian.

You will find in it hatred of Jews and Christians, the call to kill and enslave all others who deny Islam, a disdain for Women unto the point of violence, and a god who revels in punshing the wicked.

The ugliness in Islam far outweighs any good in it. Muslims are trained from birth to show you only the sweetness and light and piety, and to hide the evil until you join the gang and are threatened with death if you ever try to leave.

Read This: faithfreedom.org

I find the undertones of your post deeply disturbing.

 

[wth1257]

You need to make a decision as to whether or not Jesus was crucified.

If you’re still Catholic, pray some Hail Marys - even pray the rosary - and do some research on Our Lady of Fatima. Heck - even if you’re not catholic, still pray some Hail Marys and do some research on Our Lady of Fatima.

Don’t worry about the Trinity. If you can’t decide whether or not a historical event such as the crucifixion of Jesus was real, then you’ll never understand the complex and infinite divine nature of God’s Trinity.

I know about Fatima

 

[jdnrite01]

I was raised Catholic. I have always had a fantastic relationship with my Parish Priests, and even seriously considered entering the Priesthood for several years. I am certainly no theologian; however, I have at least a cursory knowledge of the faith.

I have doubts about the poster being a Catholic drawn to Islam. He seems to know just enough about Catholicism to provoke us, but his recitation of basic Catholic truths betrays a serious misunderstanding for someone who was “raised Catholic.”

Since May, 2008, he has been a member of IslamicBoard.com where he identifies himself as Agnostic, not Catholic.

I’m not saying this poster is a radical or harmful; just that he’s not Catholic.

 

[Charlie_Zeaiter]

I know about Fatima

I know.

 

[swariffin]

I have doubts about the poster being a Catholic drawn to Islam. He seems to know just enough about Catholicism to provoke us, but his recitation of basic Catholic truths betrays a serious misunderstanding for someone who was “raised Catholic.”

Since May, 2008, he has been a member of IslamicBoard.com where he identifies himself as Agnostic, not Catholic.

I’m not saying this poster is a radical or harmful; just that he’s not Catholic.

Thanks for the information. But, i think that he/she is still welcome to make arguments in this forum. We will be happy to have any discussion with him/her under the rule of the forum mediator.

 

[wth1257]

I have doubts about the poster being a Catholic drawn to Islam. He seems to know just enough about Catholicism to provoke us, but his recitation of basic Catholic truths betrays a serious misunderstanding for someone who was “raised Catholic.”

Since May, 2008, he has been a member of IslamicBoard.com where he identifies himself as Agnostic, not Catholic.

I’m not saying this poster is a radical or harmful; just that he’s not Catholic.

Are you stalking me?

I have specifically said I seriously doubt Catholicism, the options available there would allow me to choose “agnostic” or “Christian” I didn’t feel comfortable identifying myself as a Christian as I couldn’t, in good conscience, present myself as representative of the Catholic Faith given my doubts concerning the religion

My Confirmation Saint was St. Jean Marie Baptiste Vianney(Patron Saint of Priests), I was Baptized by Fr. Alban(sp?) of the Passionist Order.

Would you like to see my FaceBook? You can talk to my former Youth Minister(on my friends list), the other teens I helped found the local DTS Chapter with, or one of the Adults who witnessed me help plan the LifeTeen schedule last year in High School.

Also on my FaceBook you would fine my Catholic Latin instructor, who would likely agree with the patriotic sentiments of your signature.

 

[wth1257]

I know.

The events at Fatima the city, I watched an animated version in Third Grade.

 

[wth1257]

If you want to deny Christ Jesus and spend eternity in hell with Mahomet, I can’t stop you.

But if you want a regular life of prayer, since you seem to be so impressed by Mahometans praying 5 times a day, you could always try what is variously called the Liturgy of the Hours or Divine Office.

Reading your posting, however, it seems to me that you underrstand neither the Catholic Faith nor Mohametanism.

I confess there is NO GOD but Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and Jesus is God Incarnate risen from the dead!

Firstly, it’s Mohammad, not Mohomet, transliteration has progressed marvelously since the late 19th century. Secondly I know about the Liturgy of the Hours/Divine Hours, I have a lovely book of the Benedictine prayers, however I cannot remember where I specifically referenced the Muslim five daily prayers. Thirdly, outside of colonialists Orientalist Departments it’s Islam, not “Mohametanism”, the Qur’an is clear about this, Muslims are clear that this is their chosen name, why you cannot raise yourself to just basic civility and must degrade both yourself and indeed this entire board with petty linguistic polemics, I do not know. And finally, what about Catholicism or Islam don’t I understand?

 

[Predikant]

So, I have begun a serious study of Islam and fin a great deal of beauty and merrit in the religion.

I have only scratched the surface and have not even adressed why I am drawn to Islam, however I’m sleepy. Good NIght

Thank you for reading the confused ramblings of a Uni Freshman:shrug:

READ THE WORDS OF GOD, AND UNDERSTAND WHERE YOU WILL GO UNLESS YOU AMEND YOUR WAYS.

Eighth Revelation - Book 5
www.saintbirgitta.com

Christ speaks: "That man sang: ‘Deliver me, O Lord, from the unjust man.’ This voice is in my ears like the sound of two stones struck together. Indeed, his heart calls to me as if with three voices. The first says: ‘I want to have my will in my own hands; I want to sleep and to arise and to talk of pleasant things. I shall give nature what it craves. I long for money in my purse and the softness of garments on my back. When I have these and other things, I count them a greater happiness than all of the soul’s other spiritual gifts and virtues.’ His second voice is this: ‘Death is not too hard, and judgment is not as severe as it is written. We are threatened with harsh things as a precaution, but they are mitigated out of mercy. Therefore, if I can have my will in the present, let my soul pass over as best it can in the future.’ The third voice is this: 'God would not have redeemed man if he did not wish to give man heavenly things; nor would he have suffered if he did not wish to lead us back to our Father’s home. Why, indeed, did he suffer? Who ever compelled him to suffer?

Obviously, I have no intelligence of heavenly things except by hearsay; and whether one should trust the Scriptures is something that I do not know. If I could only have my will, I would take it in place of the heavenly kingdom.’ Behold, such is that man’s will. Therefore, in my ears his voice is like the sound of stones. "But, O friend, I answer your first voice: 'Your way does not tend toward heaven, and the passion of my charity is not to your taste.

Therefore hell has opened for you; and because you love things base and earthly, you will therefore go to the regions below.’
To your second voice, I answer: ‘Son, death will be hard for you, judgment unendurable, and flight impossible, unless you amend yourself.’ To your third voice, I say: 'Brother, all my works were done out of charity in order that you might be like me and, though turned away, might come to me again. But now my works are dead in you, my words are burdensome, and my way is neglected. And so what awaits you is punishment and the company of the demons because you turn your back to me, you trample underfoot the signs of my humility, and you give no attention to the state in which I stood before you - and for you - on the cross.

In a threefold state, I stood there for your sake: first, as a man whose eye was penetrated by a knife; second, as a man whose heart was perforated by a sword; third, as a man whose every limb trembled with the pain of pressing tribulation. Indeed, my passion was to me more bitter than a puncture in the eye; yet I suffered it out of charity. My Mother’s sorrow moved my heart more than my own; yet I bore it. For a long time, all my inner and outer parts trembled out of pressing pain and suffering; and yet I did not dismiss it or draw back. Thus I stood fore you, but all this you forget and neglect and despise. Therefore you shall be cast forth as an abortion; and, like the napkin of a menstruous woman, you will be cast out.’

IF YOU WANT TO BE TRULY SAVED, YOU MUST READ THESE WORDS FROM GOD AND NEVER STOP! IF YOU DO STOP READ THEM, THE DEVIL WILL MAKE YOU FORGET. TAKE IT AS A TRUTH FROM SOMEONE WHO KNOW FROM OWN EXPERIENCES THAT SO IS.

www.saintbirgitta.com

 

[inJESUS]

To the OP, what do you make of Jesus’ warning against false prophets bringing different gospels? a gospel that teaches Jesus was not crucified is the gospel taught by the apostles or a different one? surely it is a different one. The only thing you have to fully believe in to be a follower of Muhammad and his spirit who revealed things to him is to deny God word’s truthfulness and validity. In other words, reject both OT and NT for being corrupt words of God, and put your soul under the mercy of a totally different book, be it Muhammad’s or Smith…in this regards, it matters little theologically because when you already question the validity of God’s Word, you can be prey to any other ideology.

 

[Kallukalam]

Hmmm. You know, it all boils down to one thing: FAITH. Either you have the Catholic Faith or you don’t. If you believed in these doctrines at one time but didn’t nourish your Faith, perhaps you’ve lost it. How sad. How very sad.

But what if that isn’t the case. What if this is the Evil One tempting you to give up your Faith and you don’t recognize this as such?

I will pray for you.

God bless.

God bless.

I agree with you. It is a temptation from Evil. You must recognize that. Koran is not a divine revelation. Islam is a religion created for this world by Satan.

I will pray for you.

SJ

 

[johnnydigit]

you sound young. you’ve read and learned a lot, but it seems like you have not had a personal experience with God whatsoever. it seems you view Christianity as just a religion. if you just want a religion, as in a lifestyle, a community, a culture, then that’s probably why you are where you are.

this is about God. this is about Truth. this is about the meaning of life. Christ is all there is, there is nothing else. the rest (lifestyle, culture, etc.) are secondary. pray that your understanding is able to rise above such things… i think you could say, on a more existential level, the mystical and spiritual level.

it’s like an artist learning all there is about art, knowing what beauty is and how to identify it, yet he finds nothing in the world that is actually beautiful… this tortured soul is in stark contrast to the next man who knows nothing about art, yet finds immense beauty in every thing, every day. i think the difference here would be God, one and the same with Christ.

i found that sometimes i need to take some time out and stop absorbing information like a sponge in order to truly take it in and contemplate.

btw, what is your prayer life like? somehow i have a feeling it may be nonexistent?

 

[Good_Fella]

So, I have begun a serious study of Islam and fin a great deal of beauty and merrit in the religion. I was raised Catholic. I have always had a fantastic relationship with my Parish Priests, and even seriously considered entering the Priesthood for several years. I am certainly no theologian; however, I have at least a cursory knowledge of the faith. Starting in 10th grade I became extremely interested in the Scholastic works of St. Thomas Aquinas, Augustine, and Jacques Maritain. I enjoyed Maritain’s magnum opus on moral philosophy and his biography of St Aquinas, I just recently read “Razing the Bastions“, and I have listened to just about ever recorded speech Peter Kreeft ever made. My point is that, while I am not Karl Rahner, I am not utterly ignorant of the faith I was bought up in and would like substantive answers not cliché’s.

Now, I held a fairly negative view of Islam until about a year ago. I never harbored any blatant ignorance towards Muslims or even so much Islam, but I did very much consider it a religion, “Spread by the Sword” as opposed to the Church which was spread by the “blood of the Martyrs”, the old Crusader stereotypes, you know them, most pre-Vatican II books on Church History give you an idea(such as “Founded on a Rock”). However that view has begun to change due to two principle forces. Firstly getting to know individual Muslims, and secondly reading Muslim Scholars and the Qur’an. Now, the primary purpose of this thread is for me to present to you, the main reason’s I would consider Christianity dubious.

Firstly there is the concept of the Trinity. Honestly I don’t see how this is anything but a rather silly idea wrapped in sophisticated Aristotelian and Scholastic language to make it appear coherent. “No, it’s not a polytheistic idea, God is one being but three persons” I really don’t see how this is other than linguistic acrobatics. Yes, the Trinity is a “great mystery”, we all know the charming story of St Augustine walking on the beach and meeting the young man, but can anyone honestly say this idea doesn’t strike you as intuitively false? I mean most five year old children find it an absurd reason until clever sophists can convince them that the patently absurd in conceivable. I’m sure there are all sorts of platitudes thrusting forth one’s simple pious faith, and that absurdity is no affront to the “truth” and all other sorts of generalized evasions that divert the issue to anything but the incoherence of this doctrine, yet the incoherence remains, and I think most Christian, if they are honest with themselves, would have to admit it is at least intuitively dubious, if not patently silly.

Secondly there is the matter of Jesus’ Crucifixion. I know, “God is just, and infinite sin must be reconciled by and infinitely perfect sacrifice” or whatever formulation you wish, however, Christopher Hitchen’s hyperbole aside, it is a good point. God s omnipotent, yet He must kill himself, excuse me His Son, no excuse me, the human nature of his Son, which is what died, of course that’s not the sacrifice as human nature is not infinite perfection, so Christ was sacrifices, his human nature is what died, yet that was not the totality of the sacrifice, but all of Christ was sacrificed? Am I missing something? Does this make any sense? I really think this doctrine can only survive so long as the issue is examined episodically rather than the totality of the concept.

Those are the two most egregious doctrines, though naturally there are a plethora of issues, however I have slept little and it is late. I have not left the Church yet, before I did I would want to read the entire Catechism and most major ecumenical Councilor documents, however the primary reason I remain in the Church is social pressure. As I said, I have an excellent relationship with my Priests and the local Catholic Community at large, I don’t think they would take my conversion well, nor would my conservative Grandparents, with whom I also have a magnificent relationship. Next Fall semester, however, I will likely look into the Student Muslim Association Chapter.

Now, perhaps I am totally misguided in my criticisms of these doctrine, and I am very willing to listen to criticisms of my criticisms. I have seen, in only a few moments, that there are a few Islamaphobes(that being the most PC term for such individuals), to you individuals, I’m not interested in hearing your Spencer spoon fed bull****.

I have only scratched the surface and have not even adressed why I am drawn to Islam, however I’m sleepy. Good NIght

Thank you for reading the confused ramblings of a Uni Freshman:shrug:

Islam teaches that Mohammad is the last of God’s prophets, who include Moses and Jesus. If this is true, then show us where the coming of Mohammad is prophesied in the Old Testament. I’m afraid there is no such prophecy.

Pax vobiscum
Good Fella

 

[Verisimilitude]

From Wikipedia

Controversy

That’s fine. Wiki is not always a reliable reference either and some ex-Muslims feel the strange need to remain anonymous because they are threatened by those who still feel Islamish. When I read the book I cross referenced many of the references to confirm the claims made in the book. I could only not confirm one claim, but all the others checked out. Why not read it for yourself and see if it is accurate or not?

Gabriel is listed as the owner of the new website established on 24 July, 2006.[15]

Mohammed is listed as the owner of many slaves.

The books published by Gabriel are promoted by Stephen Strang’s Strang Communications.[16]

The book published by Mohammed (Quran) is promoted by an unknown messenger in a cave.

Among these are some professional people. Basim Ghozlan, “a former imam for the Islamic Association of Oslo (Det islamske forbundet i Osl) and now editor of the website http://www.islam.no”, denounced Gabriel and his book Islam and Terrorism.

I am a professional and I highly recommend the book. I also recommend “The life and Times of Mohammed” by Sir John Glubb, and the Myth of Islamic Tolerance by Robert Spencer.

 

[zerinus]

So, I have begun a serious study of Islam and fin a great deal of beauty and merrit in the religion.

---

I have only scratched the surface and have not even adressed why I am drawn to Islam, however I’m sleepy.

Perhaps that is where you need to begin. Judging by the lame responses you have received from the Catholic side, I can sympathize with your disillusionment of Catholicism; but what is it that attracts you to Islam? “Beauty and merit” is something that can be found in most established religions with a long history, if you wanted to look for it. You can find it in Buddhism, or Confucianism too, and their long cultural history and heritage. But that alone does not seem to me to be sufficient grounds for adopting a religion. I guess it all depends on what you are looking for in a religion in the first place. So what attracts you to Islam?

zerinus

 

[whatevergirl]

Perhaps that is where you need to begin. Judging by the lame responses you have received from the Catholic side, I can sympathize with your disillusionment of Catholicism; but what is it that attracts you to Islam? “Beauty and merit” is something that can be found in most established religions with a long history, if you wanted to look for it. You can find it in Buddhism, or Confucianism too, and their long cultural history and heritage. But that alone does not seem to me to be sufficient grounds for adopting a religion. I guess it all depends on what you are looking for in a religion in the first place. So what attracts you to Islam?

zerinus

I highly doubt that someone could grasp the beauty of the faith simply from a few responses on a message board, though. We have tried our best…no matter how lame you feel our replies were. I think that one must try to live the faith, and then see if he/she feels like departing, before simply drawing conclusions one way or the other from a forum like this. So much is lost and not even posted, in translation. If someone is on the fence about remaining Catholic, it would be very hard to sway that person’s opinion, simply through messaging on an anonymous forum. Information is good to exchange, and possibly we can be helpful, but if a person leaves the faith altogether over ‘lame’ replies–he/she probably wasn’t devout to begin with.

 

[hunter2]

If you want a humanly teaching, Islam is great for you. For example, if you are get caught by your enemy, you may lie so you can survive. That is humanly makes sense.

If you follow the heavenly teaching, when you get cought, you can never deny God, even to your death. You will become a martyr. That is a heavenly teaching, and it is consistent with other teaching saying “The Devil is the father of lies”. Humanly speaking, it does not make sense, off course.

It is your choice, brother. Following the heavenly teaching or humanly teaching.

Actually, if you refuse to save innocent lives by denying your faith, then you are immoral. Same goes for saving your own life. Your life is precious. If you care more about lying to a murderer, than your own life, then you do not value life.

 

[CatsAndDogs]

So, I have begun a serious study of Islam and fin a great deal of beauty and merrit in the religion. I was raised Catholic. I have always had a fantastic relationship with my Parish Priests, and even seriously considered entering the Priesthood for several years. I am certainly no theologian; however, I have at least a cursory knowledge of the faith. …

Now, I held a fairly negative view of Islam until about a year ago. I never harbored any blatant ignorance towards Muslims or even so much Islam, but I did very much consider it a religion, “Spread by the Sword” as opposed to the Church which was spread by the “blood of the Martyrs”, the old Crusader stereotypes, you know them, most pre-Vatican II books on Church History give you an idea(such as “Founded on a Rock”). However that view has begun to change due to two principle forces. Firstly getting to know individual Muslims, and secondly reading Muslim Scholars and the Qur’an. Now, the primary purpose of this thread is for me to present to you, the main reason’s I would consider Christianity dubious.

Firstly there is the concept of the Trinity. Honestly I don’t see how this is anything but a rather silly idea wrapped in sophisticated Aristotelian and Scholastic language to make it appear coherent. “No, it’s not a polytheistic idea, God is one being but three persons” I really don’t see how this is other than linguistic acrobatics. Yes, the Trinity is a “great mystery”, we all know the charming story of St Augustine walking on the beach and meeting the young man, but can anyone honestly say this idea doesn’t strike you as intuitively false? I mean most five year old children find it an absurd reason until clever sophists can convince them that the patently absurd in conceivable. I’m sure there are all sorts of platitudes thrusting forth one’s simple pious faith, and that absurdity is no affront to the “truth” and all other sorts of generalized evasions that divert the issue to anything but the incoherence of this doctrine, yet the incoherence remains, and I think most Christian, if they are honest with themselves, would have to admit it is at least intuitively dubious, if not patently silly.

Secondly there is the matter of Jesus’ Crucifixion. I know, “God is just, and infinite sin must be reconciled by and infinitely perfect sacrifice” or whatever formulation you wish, however, Christopher Hitchen’s hyperbole aside, it is a good point. God s omnipotent, yet He must kill himself, excuse me His Son, no excuse me, the human nature of his Son, which is what died, of course that’s not the sacrifice as human nature is not infinite perfection, so Christ was sacrifices, his human nature is what died, yet that was not the totality of the sacrifice, but all of Christ was sacrificed? Am I missing something? Does this make any sense? I really think this doctrine can only survive so long as the issue is examined episodically rather than the totality of the concept.

Those are the two most egregious doctrines, though naturally there are a plethora of issues, however I have slept little and it is late. I have not left the Church yet, before I did I would want to read the entire Catechism and most major ecumenical Councilor documents, however the primary reason I remain in the Church is social pressure. As I said, I have an excellent relationship with my Priests and the local Catholic Community at large, I don’t think they would take my conversion well, nor would my conservative Grandparents, with whom I also have a magnificent relationship. Next Fall semester, however, I will likely look into the Student Muslim Association Chapter.

Now, perhaps I am totally misguided in my criticisms of these doctrine, and I am very willing to listen to criticisms of my criticisms. I have seen, in only a few moments, that there are a few Islamaphobes(that being the most PC term for such individuals), to you individuals, I’m not interested in hearing your Spencer spoon fed bull****.

I have only scratched the surface and have not even adressed why I am drawn to Islam, however I’m sleepy. Good NIght

Thank you for reading the confused ramblings of a Uni Freshman:shrug:

You are not a Christian if you “have trouble with” the Holy Trinity. You may choose the faith you wish, but don’t misidentify yourself.

Read the Catechism. Read the “Craft of Catechesis”.

My opinion is that what you seek is a “Master” and not “God”, and one who absolves you of responsibility for any action you decide to take. You want all mysteries “solved”. These are things folks of your age want very much.

It’s easy to be a slave. It’s a bit harder to be your Brother’s brother, your Father’s son, and act **with **the Spirit of God.

 

[SedesDomi]

So, I have begun a serious study of Islam and fin a great deal of beauty and merrit in the religion. I was raised Catholic…
I have only scratched the surface and have not even adressed why I am drawn to Islam, however I’m sleepy. Good NIght

Thank you for reading the confused ramblings of a Uni Freshman:shrug:

I’m not Catholic. With that warning, I would place on the table for your consideration, the possibility of visiting a local Masjid. You can get a visceral “feel” for Islam, and check out the denizens of that remarkable faith.

It is also possible to be a Muslamic-Christian, but I shouldn’t say much about that here.

 

[Sister_Amy]

I think it’s pretty clear why the OP is attracted to Islam.

The word for it in Arabic is tawheed, which I’ll translate as absolutely pure monotheism.