Why I am Drifting from Catholicism to Islam

[HashemEchad]

To the OP:

If you have a problem with Christianity’s belief in a trinity and deity of Jesus, Islam sounds good for you.

My one suggestion would be: do not get ensnared in the extremist form of the religion, the Wahhabists. Find a more moderate form of Islam, that everyone can live with!

 

[Arbitro360]

Firstly there is the concept of the Trinity. Honestly I don’t see how this is anything but a rather silly idea wrapped in sophisticated Aristotelian and Scholastic language to make it appear coherent. “No, it’s not a polytheistic idea, God is one being but three persons” I really don’t see how this is other than linguistic acrobatics. Yes, the Trinity is a “great mystery”, we all know the charming story of St Augustine walking on the beach and meeting the young man, but can anyone honestly say this idea doesn’t strike you as intuitively false? I mean most five year old children find it an absurd reason until clever sophists can convince them that the patently absurd in conceivable. I’m sure there are all sorts of platitudes thrusting forth one’s simple pious faith, and that absurdity is no affront to the “truth” and all other sorts of generalized evasions that divert the issue to anything but the incoherence of this doctrine, yet the incoherence remains, and I think most Christian, if they are honest with themselves, would have to admit it is at least intuitively dubious, if not patently silly.

Read the story of the three bind men and the Elephant. One blind man thought the Elephant was like the trunk of a tree, one thought that the Elephant was like a great wall made of rubber, one thought the Elephant was like a large snake.

Each acquired only a partial understanding of the truth that they had encountered. The fact is, that God is one. In his omnipotence he manifests himself ion way which appear distinct to different people. It is our own lack of understanding, rather than the nature of God which makes it appear thus.

As for the meaning of the Crucifiction of Christ, no God did not “kill himself” or “kill his son” Jesus’ death and resurrection was a sign of God’s mercy, showing that through Jesus, we can have defeat death and have everlasting life.

If you are an honest searcher, you will soon find that Islam is a horror. That Mohammed himself was a warlord, and enslaver, a murderer, child-rapist, blashemer and self-interested illiterate barbarian.

You will find in it hatred of Jews and Christians, the call to kill and enslave all others who deny Islam, a disdain for Women unto the point of violence, and a god who revels in punshing the wicked.

The ugliness in Islam far outweighs any good in it. Muslims are trained from birth to show you only the sweetness and light and piety, and to hide the evil until you join the gang and are threatened with death if you ever try to leave.

Read This: faithfreedom.org

 

[dranzal]

Secondly there is the matter of Jesus’ Crucifixion. I know, “God is just, and infinite sin must be reconciled by and infinitely perfect sacrifice” or whatever formulation you wish, however, Christopher Hitchen’s hyperbole aside, it is a good point. God s omnipotent, yet He must kill himself, excuse me His Son, no excuse me, the human nature of his Son, which is what died, of course that’s not the sacrifice as human nature is not infinite perfection, so Christ was sacrifices, his human nature is what died, yet that was not the totality of the sacrifice, but all of Christ was sacrificed? Am I missing something? Does this make any sense? I really think this doctrine can only survive so long as the issue is examined episodically rather than the totality of the concept.

Good morning. Hope you got some rest.

Yes, many Muslims are peaceful. Yes, they are also prayerful. That doesn’t make them correct any more than the fact that Fr. Corapi says the rosary daily makes him correct.

Respectfully, I think your thoughts on the crucifixion are not quite right. I think it is common in Protestant churches to take a legalistic view of things. While those things also apply, they don’t really tell the whole story.

Humanity sinned. God “sends His Son” to “pay the price” so we can go to heaven, right? Not exactly.

First, God is outside of time. He knows everything that has ever happened and everything that will ever happen all at once. Therefore, when He breathed life into Adam, He already knew Adam would sin and that Jesus would die.

Second, Islam means “submit” right? We should not look at Jesus’ death as a legal exchange. Adam and Eve did not obey God. Through them we have suffering and death. How does Jesus destroy death? By obeying or “submitting” to the Father’s will. “Not my will but Thine be done,” He said. Then he went “silently, like a sheep to the slaughter, yet he opened not his mouth.” It was His perfect example of submission that is our salvation. Jesus destroyed death.

I think it makes perfect sense. I personally find the account of Allah’s crucifixion illusion rather non-sensical.

I hope you are still open minded about this.

Please consider the fact that the Islamic holy book is supposed to be the word-for-word Word of Allah. Allah is all knowing, right? If Allah is all knowing, why are there misrepresentations of Christian teachings in the Koran?

If Allah wanted Mohammed to critique Christian teachings in the Koran, he should at least have gotten them right for a more credible critique. Allah doesn’t seem so all-knowing when he can’t cite our supposedly erroneous doctrines accurately.

Consider this example…

I start a religion because my all knowing “god” Yoda told me to. He told me to tell everyone that the Muslim doctrine allowing grown men to marry fifteen young boys each was wrong.

A knowledgeable Muslim should laugh at me and say, “if Yoda is all knowing, he would know that there is no such doctrine!”

Frankly, the teachings on the crucifixion will last long after we’re gone. They’ve lasted 2000 years. They are viewed in the context of Eternity and make perfect, beautiful sense.

 

[inJESUS]

Nice post Dranzal.

 

[theistgal]

To the OP:

Let’s say for the sake of argument that every criticism you make is true, and Catholicism and Christianity are false.

That doesn’t mean Islam is true. If Christianity is false, there are still tons of other religions - not to mention atheism - which may or may not be true.

Because “A” is false doesn’t mean “B” is true. You should be looking for reasons why Islam is true, rather than looking for reasons why Christianity is false.

 

[hamba2han]

Believe it or not, people who have a vile hatred of Islam have done a great deal more to help promote the growth of Islam in the world than most devout Muslims can ever hope to accomplish on their own.

I guess that it is part of human nature that we tend to move a lot faster away from something that we loathe and despise than towards something that we may be attracted to.

 

[Neil_Anthony]

Well, it sounds like you fundamentally reject the most central Christian beliefs. So it makes sense that you would look for another religion.

Firstly there is the concept of the Trinity. Honestly I don’t see how this is anything but a rather silly idea wrapped in sophisticated Aristotelian and Scholastic language to make it appear coherent.

Do you expect it to be easy to understand God? Did you expect God to be subject to the normal limits of being in one place at a time, etc.?

Secondly there is the matter of Jesus’ Crucifixion. I know, “God is just, and infinite sin must be reconciled by and infinitely perfect sacrifice” or whatever formulation you wish, however, Christopher Hitchen’s hyperbole aside, it is a good point. God s omnipotent, yet He must kill himself, excuse me His Son, no excuse me, the human nature of his Son, … Am I missing something?

Yes, you’re missing that this was an example for us in how to forget about ourselves and GIVE everything we have. Also you’re missing the point God was making: He loves us SO much.

 

[Arbitro360]

Believe it or not, people who have a vile hatred of Islam have done a great deal more to help promote the growth of Islam in the world than most devout Muslims can ever hope to accomplish on their own.

I guess that it is part of human nature that we tend to move a lot faster away from something that we loathe and despise than towards something that we may be attracted to.

Pure inversion. Typical muslim sophistry. Your already tiny credibility shrinks with every excuse.

 

[dranzal]

I’ve never known anyone who fully understood the teachings of the RCC and left.

All the former Catholics I know had, at best, a very limited knowledge of the teachings. Most of what they thought they knew was incorrect.

Additionally, many former Catholics have had bad experiences with individual “hypocritical” Catholics.

Likewise, many of the conversions to Catholicism have been after deep study of the Catholic faith. Many of them were trying to critique Catholic doctrine, but found that they couldn’t because it was so sound.

 

[Malgosia]

However that view has begun to change due to two principle forces. Firstly getting to know individual Muslims, and secondly reading Muslim Scholars and the Qur’an. Now, the primary purpose of this thread is for me to present to you, the main reason’s I would consider Christianity dubious.

I am a Catholic married to a Muslim. Many of my friends are Muslims. My respect is great for Muslims for most of them are just normal people following what they have been taught.

However, you will not get the full truth abouth Islam from a Muslim or even a Muslim scholar. They are allowed to lie to you if it serves the purpose of spread of Islam. I have been lied to before and if I were gullible, I would have believed it. However to combat their claims I had to educate myself. In fact I know more about Islam then my husband does at this time.

My suggestion is for you to get a hold of a book called “Jesus and Muhammad” by a Muslim convert to Christianity named Mark A. Gabriel. He lived in both religions and has a doctoral degree from Al-Azhar University in Kairo, Egipt. He memorized Koran by the time he was 12, and he was a preacher at a mousque. His family called him “Little Sheik” for all the knowledge of Islam he possessed. Since in his books he is not trying to convert you to Islam, you will get many insights into true Islam.

And it is silly of you to think that you can ever understand the nature of God. You are a creation and you will never be able to understand who God truly is, or why He does what He does. So if your reasons for conversion is not being able to grasp the idea of Trinity, or reason for Jesus’ sacrifice, you are being deceived by your own mind.

If you convert you will be degraded from a child of God to a slave of God. I would never make that choice. I am raising 3 children as Catholics and I would rather die than allow them to be Muslims. I want them to believe that they are God’s beloved children, that God loved them enough to die for them.

 

[inJESUS]

the OP misses as well to look at the full half of the glass : the resurrection by which Jesus proved who He is to the people who walked with Him, till now

 

[inJESUS]

And it is silly of you to think that you can ever understand the nature of God. You are a creation and you will never

 

[vee8]

I would encourage the OP to relax, get a few nights of good sleep, and take your time. Both religions arent going anywhere and there is no rush to join or quit anything.

 

[Verisimilitude]

My suggestion is for you to get a hold of a book called “Jesus and Muhammad” by a Muslim convert to Christianity named Mark A. Gabriel. He lived in both religions and has a doctoral degree from Al-Azhar University in Kairo, Egipt. He memorized Koran by the time he was 12, and he was a preacher at a mousque. His family called him “Little Sheik” for all the knowledge of Islam he possessed. Since in his books he is not trying to convert you to Islam, you will get many insights into true Islam.

That is an excellent book and I recommend it to anyone.

Has your husband read it?

 

[lagin]

So, I have begun a serious study of Islam and fin a great deal of beauty and merrit in the religion. I was raised Catholic. I have always had a fantastic relationship with my Parish Priests, and even seriously considered entering the Priesthood for several years. I am certainly no theologian; however, I have at least a cursory knowledge of the faith. Starting in 10th grade I became extremely interested in the Scholastic works of St. Thomas Aquinas, Augustine, and Jacques Maritain. I enjoyed Maritain’s magnum opus on moral philosophy and his biography of St Aquinas, I just recently read “Razing the Bastions“, and I have listened to just about ever recorded speech Peter Kreeft ever made. My point is that, while I am not Karl Rahner, I am not utterly ignorant of the faith I was bought up in and would like substantive answers not cliché’s.

Now, I held a fairly negative view of Islam until about a year ago. I never harbored any blatant ignorance towards Muslims or even so much Islam, but I did very much consider it a religion, “Spread by the Sword” as opposed to the Church which was spread by the “blood of the Martyrs”, the old Crusader stereotypes, you know them, most pre-Vatican II books on Church History give you an idea(such as “Founded on a Rock”). However that view has begun to change due to two principle forces. Firstly getting to know individual Muslims, and secondly reading Muslim Scholars and the Qur’an. Now, the primary purpose of this thread is for me to present to you, the main reason’s I would consider Christianity dubious.

Firstly there is the concept of the Trinity. Honestly I don’t see how this is anything but a rather silly idea wrapped in sophisticated Aristotelian and Scholastic language to make it appear coherent. “No, it’s not a polytheistic idea, God is one being but three persons” I really don’t see how this is other than linguistic acrobatics. Yes, the Trinity is a “great mystery”, we all know the charming story of St Augustine walking on the beach and meeting the young man, but can anyone honestly say this idea doesn’t strike you as intuitively false? I mean most five year old children find it an absurd reason until clever sophists can convince them that the patently absurd in conceivable. I’m sure there are all sorts of platitudes thrusting forth one’s simple pious faith, and that absurdity is no affront to the “truth” and all other sorts of generalized evasions that divert the issue to anything but the incoherence of this doctrine, yet the incoherence remains, and I think most Christian, if they are honest with themselves, would have to admit it is at least intuitively dubious, if not patently silly.

Secondly there is the matter of Jesus’ Crucifixion. I know, “God is just, and infinite sin must be reconciled by and infinitely perfect sacrifice” or whatever formulation you wish, however, Christopher Hitchen’s hyperbole aside, it is a good point. God s omnipotent, yet He must kill himself, excuse me His Son, no excuse me, the human nature of his Son, which is what died, of course that’s not the sacrifice as human nature is not infinite perfection, so Christ was sacrifices, his human nature is what died, yet that was not the totality of the sacrifice, but all of Christ was sacrificed? Am I missing something? Does this make any sense? I really think this doctrine can only survive so long as the issue is examined episodically rather than the totality of the concept.

Those are the two most egregious doctrines, though naturally there are a plethora of issues,

Hmmm. You know, it all boils down to one thing: FAITH. Either you have the Catholic Faith or you don’t. If you believed in these doctrines at one time but didn’t nourish your Faith, perhaps you’ve lost it. How sad. How very sad.

But what if that isn’t the case. What if this is the Evil One tempting you to give up your Faith and you don’t recognize this as such?

I will pray for you.

God bless.

God bless.

 

[water]

So, I have begun a serious study of Islam and fin a great deal of beauty and merrit in the religion. I was raised Catholic. I have always had a fantastic relationship with my Parish Priests, and even seriously considered entering the Priesthood for several years. I am certainly no theologian; however, I have at least a cursory knowledge of the faith.

Having a knowledge about your faith is much different than having faith in the faith itself.

You’re in my prayer.

 

[JimG]

God s omnipotent, yet He must kill himself, excuse me His Son, no excuse me, the human nature of his Son, which is what died, of course that’s not the sacrifice as human nature is not infinite perfection, so Christ was sacrifices, his human nature is what died, yet that was not the totality of the sacrifice, but all of Christ was sacrificed? Am I missing something?

Yes. Natures don’t die. Persons do. Death is the separation of the human body from the human immortal soul. Jesus is a divine person with both human nature and a divine nature. As a human being, he could be subject to death–his body and soul spearating at death. But as a divine person, the Person who died–God the Son–has infinite value by reason of his divine nature.

 

[whatevergirl]

I have Muslim friends, and also visited an Islam website a few years ago, and met some wonderful posters there. I would say you most likely are drawn to Islam, due to the prayer life, and sense of community. I find some tenets of Islam to be beautiful as well, but I could never ever ever renounce Christ, to follow Islam. (amongst other reasons I wouldn’t leave my faith) But, that would be the biggest reason. The problem with Islam is that it not only teaches that Jesus did not die on the cross, but that ‘an imposter’ did…I believe Muslims believe that Judas died on the cross. This is just something that clearly was made up, because there is no historical basis for this whatsoever. Not in the Bible, which came long before the Qu’ran, and even historians who are not religious can link the past to the Crucifixion of Christ. I think that it would take a massive denial of your faith as you have come to know it to follow Islam. I would imagine that justifying the denial of the Crucifxion would be the tip of the iceberg. I don’t know if you should take such a chance.

I cannot speak for you, certainly, but I’m just answering why you could be attracted to a faith that denies Christ’s death and resurrection. If you really do some serious study on Islam, there is a lot of the Bible in the Qu’ran…but bits and pieces of added things that came from Muhammed. I also believe that if you unravel one piece of the Bible, other pieces will unravel. In the Old Test., Isiah prophecies on the death of Christ…if you suddenly remove the Crucifixion, you have to start questioning the validity of the entire Bible, which many Muslims feel was ‘tampered with’ and is not pure Truth.

I pray that you will remain faithful to Christ.

 

[ralphinal]

Saying that there is no love in Islam is wrong. Surely it does not resemble what we mean bylove because ours refers to love to the Father, His Word and Spirit whereas Muslims’ love is more for the Creator rather than Father. This however does not mean there is no love in Islam to God. The OP has to deal with different serious questions regarding Islam and its originator, rather than whether there is love to God in Islam or not.

But there is a major difference between the love a Father has for his children and the love a creator has for his creation. More importantly, there is a major difference between the Father/Child love and Master/Slave.

Yes, the issues that the OP has to deal with are bigger than that, but it is never bad to start small.

 

[whatevergirl]

Islam also teaches that one must earn salvation…no one was sacrificed…it is all dependent on how we live our lives. How will a Muslim truly know if he is saved, then? I mean, even as a Catholic, we cannot take salvation for granted, because Jesus died for us. We know that faith without works is dead. But, Islam is a faith built on works. There is simply no other way to achieve heaven, if one is not working towards it.

There is no confession of sins, or atonement…although Ramadan serves as a time of fasting, etc…so that could be similiar to our Lent. Still though, one is seeking heaven through self and actions of self…not that we are not worthy, and that by Christ’s blood are any of us able to see heaven.

Like I said…it would take a massive denial of everything, pretty much, that you know and love about your faith, to follow Islam.