Why I am Drifting from Catholicism to Islam

[R_not]

more on jihad:

• About jihad, ‘inner struggle’

• JIHAD IS ALLAH’S COMMAND - Surah 9:29
• Those who reject Islam must be KILLED - Surah 4:89
• For the Unbelievers are open enemies to you - Surah 4:101
• FIGHT those who believe not in Allah nor the last day - Surah 9:29
• KILL them [non-Muslims] wherever you find and catch them - Surah 2:191
• If anyone desires a religion other the Islam, it will never be accepted of him - Surah 3:85
• Whoever changes his Islamic religion, KILL him - Surah 9:57

When Muslims fight “jihad” they obey the commands of Allah, Muhammad, the Quran, and Islam. ISLAM IS JIHAD & JIHAD IS ISLAM. AND JIHAD IS MANDATORY

• Explain some of the ‘ ancient rulings’ listed below

“WE ARE MEN WHO THINK THERE IS NO SHAME IN KILLING” - Muhammad (Ishaq:489)

-”KILLING DISBELIEVERS IS A SMALL MATTER TO US” - Muhammad (Tabari)

“WE REJECT YOU [NON-MUSLIMS]. HOSTILITY AND HATE HAVE COME BETWEEN US FOREVER, UNLESS YOU BELIEVE IN ALLAH ONLY” - Surah 60:5 (Allah’s word; thus mandatory)

“KILL EVERY JEW” - Muhammad (Ishaq)

“ALLAH DESIRES KILLING TO MANIFEST ISLAM” - Muhammad

“ALLAH HATES YOU FOR ASKING TOO MANY QUESTIONS” - Muhammad (Hadith Bukhari)

 

[wth1257]

Actually, jihad is something that all muslims are commanded to do…

“All these ‘peaceful’ neighbors that everyone tells me about is just a facade. they know they are outnumbered and what does anyone expect”

How many Muslims do you have as good friends?

 

[R_not]

“All these ‘peaceful’ neighbors that everyone tells me about is just a facade. they know they are outnumbered and what does anyone expect”

How many Muslims do you have as good friends?

Well, once again it is very apparent that you don’t want to know the truth. You print out your concerns and I answer them - and instead of reading anything - you ask me some inane question. You are the one who said to keep it at a certain level - and then you grovel.

thanks for proving to me that what someone else posted about you is correct. You don’t want to know, you don’t want to do any research into islam. Basically this just sounds like more muslim stuff to deflect the truth about islam.

Try again.

 

[Glaucon]

Well, once again it is very apparent that you don’t want to know the truth. You print out your concerns and I answer them - and instead of reading anything - you ask me some inane question. You are the one who said to keep it at a certain level - and then you grovel.

thanks for proving to me that what someone else posted about you is correct. You don’t want to know, you don’t want to do any research into islam. Basically this just sounds like more muslim stuff to deflect the truth about islam.

Try again.

Another Muhammadan debating tactic (which I overlooked in my last post)! It’s what debaters call the “red-herring” strategy.

It’s also what his beloved Professor Akbar Ahmed uses too. The apple doesn’t fall far from the tree, as they say.

Hey, for an “Islamish non-Muslim”, you’re getting pretty good at it, OP. Kudos!

How many Muslims do we have as friends? Well, it depends on whether the Muslims in question really do count us as friends… (Now don’t you go about accusing me of making “hasty generalizations”…) Friendship must be sincere, and mutual, after all. Again, Sura 5:51:

O ye who believe! take not the Jews and the Christians for your friends and protectors: They are but friends and protectors to each other. And he amongst you that turns to them (for friendship) is of them. Verily Allah guideth not a people unjust.

OP doing his “poisoning the well” shtick, that is, calling us inaccurate and unreliable, et cetera ad nauseam = BAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWW!!! (Somebody call him a waaambulance!)

 

[wth1257]

Well, once again it is very apparent that you don’t want to know the truth. You print out your concerns and I answer them - and instead of reading anything - you ask me some inane question. You are the one who said to keep it at a certain level - and then you grovel.

thanks for proving to me that what someone else posted about you is correct. You don’t want to know, you don’t want to do any research into islam. Basically this just sounds like more muslim stuff to deflect the truth about islam.

Try again.

I read through your articles on intellectual stagnation and the rejection of Greek Rationalism in Islam. As I said simply because I do not address each post doesn’t mean I don’t read them. I wouldn’t consider them academically rigorous as their not peer reviewed structurally sound texts however I still enjoyed them.

It’s not an inane question, you are making extremely potent claims about Muslims at large with profoundly far reaching implications. As you have, through your shift from Islam to Muslims, moved this from a purely academic discussion to a personal one (as you impugned the personal motives and beliefs of all or most Muslims) I think it is a very fair question.

 

[wth1257]

Another Muhammadan debating tactic (which I overlooked in my last post)! It’s what debaters call the “red-herring” strategy.

He claims all(or almost all) Muslims are either subversive agents laying in wait to carry out aggressive actions against their respective established governments or actively engaged in such actions.

and it’s NOT legitimate to ask him a basic question regarding his personal experiences concerning Muslims?

It’s also what his beloved Professor Akbar Ahmed uses too. The apple doesn’t fall far from the tree, as they say.

I suspect you have no grounds for this, but I’ll give it a go anyway.

How so?

Hey, for an “Islamish non-Muslim”, you’re getting pretty good at it, OP. Kudos!

I don’t know what the hell your problem is, however I am not a Muslim apologist or any of the various attributed identities assigned to me by various posters. I am a teenager presently disillusioned with his Catholic Faith, drawn to Islam, and seeking honest advise/help. Why you feel the need to continually ridicule me I don’t know, could you provide an explanation?

How many Muslims do we have as friends? Well, it depends on whether the Muslims in question really do count us as friends… (Now don’t you go about accusing me of making “hasty generalizations”…) Friendship must be sincere, and mutual, after all. Again, Sura 5:51:

nice dodge.

OP doing his “poisoning the well” shtick, that is, calling us inaccurate and unreliable, et cetera ad nauseam = BAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWW!!! (Somebody call him a waaambulance!)

Unless you are claiming I’m a Jew who is spreading the Bubonic plage in Europe I have no idea what the hell that is referring to.

 

[inJESUS]

All of you are correct even when you refute each others because on personal level Muslims can be great people, but ideology-wise it is true that Islam is not compatible with other cultures if some of their ideolgies are to be applied like conquering other lands and subduing those who do not embrace Islam or annihilating Jews or turning a country into the sharia of the 7th century sahara ecc. So you cannot refute ideology with how some nice Muslim friend is acting toward you. I live among them, i interact with them and i have friends (sunni , shia, druze and alawiyya) but it does not mean am ignorant of their religion’s ideologies nor am i ignorant about those who are actually striving to make Lebanon either the Faqih wilaya or the Imara of Islam and am aware that at any time a war might break to annihilate the Jews…my nice friends might not be involved but a million will be more than happy to so all of you make sure to keep discussing about ideologies rather than your nice friends because they are not the problem…even those belonging to Hizbullah who want to annihilate the Jews can be nice people to u but the problem in their ideologies.

 

[wth1257]

All of you are correct even when you refute each others because on personal level Muslims can be great people, but ideology-wise it is true that Islam is not compatible with other cultures if some of their ideolgies are to be applied like conquering other lands and subduing those who do not embrace Islam or annihilating Jews or turning a country into the sharia of the 7th century sahara ecc. So you cannot refute ideology with how some nice Muslim friend is acting toward you. I live among them, i interact with them and i have friends (sunni , shia, druze and alawiyya) but it does not mean am ignorant of their religion’s ideologies nor am i ignorant about those who are actually striving to make Lebanon either the Faqih wilaya or the Imara of Islam and am aware that at any time a war might break to annihilate the Jews…my nice friends might not be involved but a million will be more than happy to so all of you make sure to keep discussing about ideologies rather than your nice friends because they are not the problem…even those belonging to Hizbullah who want to annihilate the Jews can be nice people to u but the problem in their ideologies.

well said

 

[Trishie]

May the God of all goodness and love guide you in all your thoughts and decisions.

 

[abucs]

Hi inJesus,

who exactly are the Druze, and what’s their story ?

 

[inJESUS]

Hi inJesus,

who exactly are the Druze, and what’s their story ?

druze are a sect of Islam . I really don’t know what they believe in exactly since it is a very secretive, tightly-knit religion that even some druze do not know or do not discuss…they call themselves Al Muwahiddun al Duruz ( monotheistic druze or unification druze)…maybe a google search will be of more help…but it seems to me it is rather a phylosophy than an actual religion…

 

[inJESUS]

Here is a quote to explain what i said

The Druzes are one of the smallest, least studied, and most esoteric religious communities in the Middle East. This is because the Druze teachings remain inaccessible not only to outsiders but also to uninitiated members within the Druze community itself. Furthermore, proselytizing-inducing someone to convert to one’s own religious faith-has been prohibited since the establishment of the sect in the 11th century. In order to resist assimilation by the various empires and colonial powers that sought to dominate them-the Byzantines, various Arab dynasties, the Mamluks and Ottomans, the British and French, in addition to the nations that govern them-the Druzes disguise and conceal their beliefs.

**Therefore, not much is known by outsiders about the Druzes. **

i know that they believe in reincarnation, for example.

 

[dranzal]

Regarding the lying in Islam.

You said one reason a muslim could lie was to persuade a woman. Is this on par with the “little white lies” we (in general) tell every day?

example:

Woman: Honey, does this make me look fat?

Man: Uh, no, honey, you look great.

Woman: I’m not sure I like my new haircut. Honey, what do you think?

Man: Uh, you look great.

It’s my understanding that people generally think lying is okay in special circumstances.

example: An abused wife runs to the neighbor’s house for protection. The husband comes to the door looking for her. The neighbor, lying, says he hasn’t seen her.

Is that okay according to Catholic teaching? Muslim teaching?

 

[R_not]

**

I read through your articles on intellectual stagnation and the rejection of Greek Rationalism in Islam. As I said simply because I do not address each post doesn’t mean I don’t read them. I wouldn’t consider them academically rigorous as their not peer reviewed structurally sound texts however I still enjoyed them.

It’s not an inane question, you are making extremely potent claims about Muslims at large with profoundly far reaching implications. As you have, through your shift from Islam to Muslims, moved this from a purely academic discussion to a personal one (as you impugned the personal motives and beliefs of all or most Muslims) I think it is a very fair question.

Thanks but no thanks to you so called academic discussion - or your definitions of such things. You have no intention to discuss anything. Your logic is as screwy as their logic as to why they can follow an enslaver, rapist, liar, thief, torturer and murderer.

Italian writer Oriana Fallaci, said: *“A moderate Islam does not exist. It does not exist because there is no difference between Good Islam and Bad Islam. There is Islam and that it the end of it. Islam is the Koran, and nothing other than the Koran.“ *(Oriana Fallaci”The Force of Reason” post-script page 305 February 2006)]
Wise and true words.

 

[R_not]

Regarding the lying in Islam.

You said one reason a muslim could lie was to persuade a woman. Is this on par with the “little white lies” we (in general) tell every day?

example:

Woman: Honey, does this make me look fat?

Man: Uh, no, honey, you look great.

Woman: I’m not sure I like my new haircut. Honey, what do you think?

Man: Uh, you look great.

It’s my understanding that people generally think lying is okay in special circumstances.

example: An abused wife runs to the neighbor’s house for protection. The husband comes to the door looking for her. The neighbor, lying, says he hasn’t seen her.

Is that okay according to Catholic teaching? Muslim teaching?

Ask a priest about the situation you describe. I would lie and then go to a priest and describe the whole thing in a confessional. What is the greater evil - handing over a woman to be beaten and in many cases these types of men kill the women - or lie? Use some common sense.

The difference being what I am saying is that muslims, in dar al harb (the realm of war), are allowed to lie about islam and fool us as to what its intentions are about. and for the infidel - peace with muslims means one of three things: death, conversion or subjugation (dhimmitude).

If a man lied to me about his circumstances - I would leave. But, I would just not marry him or date him further - and yes, this has happened to me in my life. I warned him the first couple of times - and then left after he carried on with his lying ways. This is not how I wanted to live my life - not trusting a lying man and to bring children into this world who would have a lying jerk for a father. In the west we have choices and we also have freedoms which are not allowed to muslim women in muslim countries. Muslim women here in the USA also have freedoms.

the one thing you are not understanding about islam and whether it be lying or anything - it is sanctioned in islam. There is no mention of the 10 commandments. And if it is an infidel that they are doing transgressions against (lying, raping, enslaving, torturing and/or killing) it is ok. There is nothing in sharia law that means the perpetrator is to be held responsible.

I will show you what the muslims want for us - their STATED goal is to establish sharia law in all lands - and they don’t tell you that jihad is a part of islam. and that does not bode well for infidels (or women). I suggest reading the whole article.

Here is an excerpt from an article on sharia law:
frontpagemag.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID=8AD3D2F1-FD2C-4E78-B233-2F97FCF97B94

*Basis for Jihad:

(1) fighting is prescribed (2:216).

(2) slay them wherever you find them (4:89).

(3) fight the idolatry utterly ( 9:36 ).

Hadith: I have been commanded to fight—Bukhari.

To go forth in the morning—Muslim

Jihad is a communal obligation (o9.1; p.600).

Jihad is obligatory for every Muslim who is able to perform it, male or female (o9.3, p.601).

Caliph makes war upon the Jews, the Christians, the Zoroastrians……by first inviting them to enter Islam, if no success then pay jizya, if no jizya then kill them (o9.8, p.602).

Women and children captured in a jihad operation become the slaves of Muslims; the women’s previous marriage is immediately annulled (o9.13; p.604).

Arab idolater must become Muslims or die (o9.9, p.603).

In a jihad operation Muslims can kill old men (40+) and monks (o9.10, p.603).

Male captives’ fate is decided by the Caliph; this includes gratuitous killing of male captives (o9.14, p.604).

Truces are permitted but not obligatory. When uppermost—no truce until some interest is served—‘so do not be fainthearted and call for peace when it is you who are the uppermost’ (the Qur’an 47:35).

If weak then make truce for 10 years.

If possibility of making Muslim–then establish 4 months truce.

Spoils are for free male Muslims (o10.0, p.606).

Dhimmis are: 1. the Jews 2. the Christians 3. Zoroastrians 4. Samarians and Sabians 5. Adherents of religion of Abraham (o11.1, p.607).

Not included in Dhimmi: idol worshippers, no sacred book, Sikhs, Bahai, Mormons, Qadianis. Books revealed after Islam are not acceptable (o11.2, p.607).

The Dhimmis’ public behaviour and dress must be Islamic (o11.3, p.607).*

 

[catharina]

So, I have begun a serious study of Islam and fin a great deal of beauty and merrit in the religion. I was raised Catholic. I have always had a fantastic relationship with my Parish Priests, and even seriously considered entering the Priesthood for several years. I am certainly no theologian; however, I have at least a cursory knowledge of the faith. Starting in 10th grade I became extremely interested in the Scholastic works of St. Thomas Aquinas, Augustine, and Jacques Maritain. I enjoyed Maritain’s magnum opus on moral philosophy and his biography of St Aquinas, I just recently read “Razing the Bastions“, and I have listened to just about ever recorded speech Peter Kreeft ever made. My point is that, while I am not Karl Rahner, I am not utterly ignorant of the faith I was bought up in and would like substantive answers not cliché’s.

Now, I held a fairly negative view of Islam until about a year ago. I never harbored any blatant ignorance towards Muslims or even so much Islam, but I did very much consider it a religion, “Spread by the Sword” as opposed to the Church which was spread by the “blood of the Martyrs”, the old Crusader stereotypes, you know them, most pre-Vatican II books on Church History give you an idea(such as “Founded on a Rock”). However that view has begun to change due to two principle forces. Firstly getting to know individual Muslims, and secondly reading Muslim Scholars and the Qur’an. Now, the primary purpose of this thread is for me to present to you, the main reason’s I would consider Christianity dubious.

… .

“Why I am Drifting from Catholicism to Islam?” Ah, the big WHY?

Your age and psycho-social development move you and your peers to explore the world.
Questioning ideas and forming friendships are closely linked. You have Muslim friends now.

Developmentally, you’re on track so that’s not a worry.
Peer pressure is important in its ability to influence actions. Also predicatable.

However if you find that you are drifting from your Faith - then think about this:
Do you treat your faith as the pearl of great price?
Why aren’t you developing friendships with Catholics at uni?
How great is your personal need to rebel?
Have you ever made a lifelong commitment to Catholicism?
Have you checked out the Neuman Club at your school?
If not, why not?
Have you joined a local parish?

If you are drifting away from your faith then perhaps you do not value it enough.
Many people can argue against the Church. Why do you choose them as your new friends?

 

[AlessandraRose]

It seems he made up his mind already!

 

[catharina]

It seems he made up his mind already!

What? A five-day online conversion from Catholicism to Islam? That’s too sad. Pitiful really.

So why the drift?
Again, when one fails to nurture, guard and grow one’s faith, that faith can die.

It’s no puzzle. When instead one feeds and grows another set of beliefs (under social pressure, no less) then those new beliefs can grow. While I might pity this confused young man, because of my age (62 yrs-old) I pity his parents even more - and all of the priests who gave him concern and time and interest throughout his life.

 

[DanteAlighieri]

If you want to deny Christ Jesus and spend eternity in hell with Mahomet, I can’t stop you.

But if you want a regular life of prayer, since you seem to be so impressed by Mahometans praying 5 times a day, you could always try what is variously called the Liturgy of the Hours or Divine Office.

Reading your posting, however, it seems to me that you underrstand neither the Catholic Faith nor Mohametanism.

I confess there is NO GOD but Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and Jesus is God Incarnate risen from the dead!

Forgive me if this has already been addressed, but this post is one of the most uncharitable I have ever seen on this board.

Christians are not to condemn – it is not our right, nor do we have the ability to know anyone’s soul. For all we know, Mohammed is in purgatory or heaven, having been given one last chance to repent. We just don’t know, and it is at best uncharitable and at worst blasphemous to claim that we do.

Furthermore, this kind of vitriol is precisely what a wandering soul like the OP does NOT need. Condemnation full of disingenuous rhetoric will only push him away from the Church.

Peace,
Dante

 

[Cathdefender]

Another Muhammadan debating tactic (which I overlooked in my last post)! It’s what debaters call the “red-herring” strategy.

It’s also what his beloved Professor Akbar Ahmed uses too. The apple doesn’t fall far from the tree, as they say.

Hey, for an “Islamish non-Muslim”, you’re getting pretty good at it, OP. Kudos!

How many Muslims do we have as friends? Well, it depends on whether the Muslims in question really do count us as friends… (Now don’t you go about accusing me of making “hasty generalizations”…) Friendship must be sincere, and mutual, after all. Again, Sura 5:51:

OP doing his “poisoning the well” shtick, that is, calling us inaccurate and unreliable, et cetera ad nauseam = BAAAAAAAAAAWWWWWW!!! (Somebody call him a waaambulance!)

Glaucon, what’s up with your signature? Is that Arabic writing?