Why I am Drifting from Catholicism to Islam

[wth1257]

wth1257,

the Pope calls for faith and reason. You cannot have one while ignoring the other.

We are not called to ‘blindly accept’ things but think through them.
Your response does not insult me, i simply make the point that to my (and others) posts, you do not engage. you simply reject.

As i said previously - fair enough. But if you reject the tenets of christianity without even wanting to engage in the apologetics of them, then i can’t see how you are Christian.

In all honesty, i wish you well in who you are, and who you become. You should follow your faith and reason.

Well, I looked at your post as you’re opinion, not a scholarly thesis.

If it’s that important I’d be happy to go through you’re post when I get a chance.

 

[Glaucon]

Read Paradise Lost. Satan and he legions rebelled from God with the terrifying cry, “We Shall not Serve”

A universally, unqualified claim of, “I will not submit” is very anti-Christian

That was “NON SERVIAM”.

“Lan astaslem” is rejection of Islam.

Know the difference.

 

[wth1257]

Ah, the young. I’m concerned with only your statement that you find the Holy Trinity an “egregious doctrine”, along with the crucifixion of course.

Originally Posted by wth1257
…Those are the two most egregious doctrines, though naturally there are a plethora of issues, however I have slept little and it is late.

That makes you a non-Christian entirely. No other “credential of Catholicness” means a whit. I do pray that you come to your senses, but you apparently left Christianity long ago.

Cite me an official Church document to back up your claim here.

I also could not care less whether you’re lying to me, or to us, other than your obvious attempts at scandalizing Catholics away from the Church, but you really shouldn’t lie to yourself in that you are a Catholic, or Christian of any stripe.

I have never tried to scandalize any Catholic or pull any Catholic away from their faith.

I don’t judge your soul whatsoever. How have I done that?

You claimed I was never a real Christian, only ever a nominal Catholic(at best). The Gospels command Christian to correct their brothers when they are going down the wrong path, and to point out sin, lovingly, when necessary. The determination over weather I was a “nominal” Catholic or not is a judgment about my standing with God, something expressly forbidden in the Gospels.

I will CERTAINLY grant that I need to work on my “pastoral” skills!

No, my Priest needs to work on his Pastoral skills by not rambling at the pulpit, you have never been a source of pastoral ministry, you have simply insulted me and trivialized my struggles.

How have you come to be so unbelieving in regards the very bases of Christianity after being so “INFLUENCED” by those very pious and pleasant people of the Church?

Because I have also know very pious and intelligent Jews, Muslims, and Protestants.

They are the one and single reason I remain in the Church at this point though.

Most likely because SOMETHING scandalized you away from the Church

false

where you allowed yourself to impute the sins of people within the Church to the Church herself

Nope

and are now interested in “helping” (scandalizing) people of the Church toward their “intellectually inevitable” journey into islam, just like you.

Nope, and I have not made a “journey into islam” yet.

If your-admittedly pious “friends” within the Church haven’t made an impression on you

They have made a PROFOUND impression on me, if I leave the Church I will still carry the things they have taught me within my soul till the day I die.

perhaps my more “rough” truth-telling

You haven’t engaged in any truth telling whatsoever, you have publicly libeled me, make extraordinarily wrong assumptions about me and my personal experiences and trumpeted them as fact, and made numerous false claims about my spiritual life.

being at least “different in tactic”, might have some effect.

It’s not a tactic, that would require insight and intelligent, preconceived plans to bring about a desired end.

I don’t think it will, of course, as your hightailing-it seems to indicate.

I’ve done nothing BUT call your bluff. Your BLUFF is that you are interested in move back toward Christianity. You have no interest in that, quite obviously.

To call you a non-Catholic is not “character assasination”.
It is a D E S C R I P T I O N of what you say you are.

Saying I am a liar about my past, however, is.

My prayers are with you that your desire to bring people with you away from God in His fullness and into an at-best “natural law” relationship with Him will fall away.

You know, funny story, there was once this guy. A Jew by birth, brought up by a mother and stepfather. Anyway, when this Rabbi was about thirty he started preaching. Anyway, there was this band of pseudo Holy Men. They would pretend to pray, but use their public displays of devotion for non genuine motives. Anyway, this Rabbi didn’t like them to much

I wonder if using a public exposition of prayer/devotion to underhandedly levy false charges against someone, defame their character, and impugn their honesty would be much appreciated by that Rabbi:shrug:

May your worship of “nice-ness”, and “simplemindedness” over truth likewise fall away, and may the pious friends from your past kindle in your soul a desire for a Father, a Brother and a vital Spirit instead of the desires of a self-sold slave.

 

[wth1257]

That was “NON SERVIAM”.

“Lan astaslem” is rejection of Islam.

Know the difference.

fine

 

[wth1257]

No one here knows this person so we should not “assume” anything and just pray he finds his way to what is right.

This is one nasty thread and many people here should be ashamed of themselves!!!

thank you

 

[wth1257]

What? A five-day online conversion from Catholicism to Islam? That’s too sad. Pitiful really.

So why the drift?
Again, when one fails to nurture, guard and grow one’s faith, that faith can die.

It’s no puzzle. When instead one feeds and grows another set of beliefs (under social pressure, no less) then those new beliefs can grow. While I might pity this confused young man, because of my age (62 yrs-old) I pity his parents even more - and all of the priests who gave him concern and time and interest throughout his life.

I’m not under any social pressure to convert, and there was no five day internet conversion.

 

[KimL]

I am what I am, and think what I think; just because I dont wish to dedicate my life to understanding something that can never be understood does NOT make me no less catholic than anyone here.

You on the other hand should not be pointing fingers.

KimL, with all due respect, how can you be a Catholic and think that the whole ‘idea’ of the trinity is simply silly ? And not even want to enter into further discussion.

How can you be a Catholic and think that the death and ressurrection of Jesus makes no sense at all ? And not even want to enter into further discussion.

i have taken care in this thread to be respectful to the poster.
I continue to wish him well in whatever he chooses to do or not do.

I am simply being honest on how i see things. If we can’t be honest in what we write, why bother writing ?

 

[abucs]

KimL, I have made no specific comment whatsoever about you dedicating (or not) your life to anything. Much less about how you stand as a Catholic as a result of that.

With all due respect, this thread is not about you, neither do i wish it to become about you.

Wth1257. Yes, please respond when you get the time. Thanks.

 

[R_not]

I beg your pardon. How could a rebuff of Islam be an insult to the Catholic faith…? I don’t see the connection at all, I’m sorry. Could you explain further?

Hey - I get it!

My spin on it might be different than yours though - I will not submit to some moon god that says in its koran that it hates me and other infidels, or anyone who asks questions!

“ALLAH DESIRES KILLING TO MANIFEST ISLAM” - Muhammad

“ALLAH HATES YOU FOR ASKING TOO MANY QUESTIONS” - Muhammad (Hadith Bukhari)

Anyway - good night, I am bugging out of here.

 

[catharina]

I also have many Roman Catholic friends, I don’t want to give the impression that I solely hang out with a group Muslims, I spend more time with Christians, Jews and non-religious on average.

**
Maybe the fact that you misunderstood the nature of Islam as a truly monothiestic religion has your brain marching double-time now to mitigate your past ignorance. You were born into a world that often holds Islam suspect. I was born into a world where as a Catholic six-year-old in school, I learned that only Jews Christians and Moslems (Muslims) worship one God. Having always held respect for Islam, I never felt the need to explore it.**

I do try to keep this in mind, my age and development make me predisposed to liberalism and political activism so I try to balance that out by listening to talk radio, as I don’t wish to get isolated in some one ideology.

My point is I don’t loose sight of my psychological development in such matters.

**Wonderful. **

University studies was not the start of my disillusionment with Catholicism. I was not raised religious and had a very strong disposition to science so I’ve never been fully comfortable with religion. As I said I do have Catholic Friends.

**
Folks in the sciences seem to conclude while still quite young that God exists as does much beyond our limited understanding - or they turn against all faith and enter other spheres to support their personal need for scientific certainty. **

I certainly know I am very susceptible to youthful idealism, however I am no Lord Byron running off the Greece

Yes, and I met with the Bishop when he visited, I’ve met him a few times. The Priest there is also a very good man. Like I said, I’ve never had a bad experience with a Priest.

**
As for your two quandries, nothing answers the mystery of sacrificial love better than parenthood. As a parent, would I be able (with the grace of God) to accept that my son, my nieces, other children I have raised, should be willing to die for our faith, for love, for others? Yes. I hope so. That Our Lord died for OUR sins is a given. That His Father accepted that sacrifice is a given. If a sibling of yours destroyed your home, killed your parents’ dearest familiy members, would you be willing to bear the sacrifice needed to make up for your sibling’s offenses? The answer is a simple yes otr no. Sacrificial love demands that we work to heal wounds where we find them. Like it or not, no one can be more wounded than God is by our sins. To be meaningful, love must sacrifice self. **

**
As to the Trinity, revealed truth is revealed. None can invent it. It’s too wild and incomprehensible for invention. That it can be embraced and accepted through faith is another act of grace. We can read Freud and think id-ego-superego. We can read Berne and think parent-adult-child. These seem like the tiniest psych spin-offs sprung from the fully revealed truth that is the reality of existence of Almighty God. **

**
I thank you for your response to my (name removed by moderator)ut.**

**
Your primary question: “why am I am drifting from Catholcism to Islam?” has a simple and singular answer. If that drift is really happening, it’s because of the decisions you’re making. **

 

[ChristopherL]

You are being decieved. Mohammad himself was a liar, terrorist and looter.

Mo, who were you? A Terrorist that’s who.
Many people just do not know the ugly truth about Islam or its prophet Mohammad. Either they do not take the time to do the research or they rely on the word of Muslims. Well, since Islam encourages lying, I would not recommend asking a Muslim. It is called al-Taqiyya. If you want to learn the truth about the religion, either do your own leg work or ask an ex Muslim.

islaminaction08.blogspot.com/2008/05/mo-who-were-you-terrorist-thats-who.html

 

[Glaucon]

Hey - I get it!

My spin on it might be different than yours though - I will not submit to some moon god that says in its koran that it hates me and other infidels, or anyone who asks questions!

My point exactly.

Where’s a real, honest-to-goodness “Muslim Martin Luther” when you need him?

For some, Muslim journalist Salah Uddin Shoaib Choudhury comes to mind. Unfortunately, people who align themselves with mainstream Islam hate him to the death.

Mr. Choudhury, you are not alone.

 

[wth1257]

You are being decieved. Mohammad himself was a liar, terrorist and looter.

Mo, who were you? A Terrorist that’s who.
Many people just do not know the ugly truth about Islam or its prophet Mohammad. Either they do not take the time to do the research or they rely on the word of Muslims. Well, since Islam encourages lying, I would not recommend asking a Muslim. It is called al-Taqiyya. If you want to learn the truth about the religion, either do your own leg work or ask an ex Muslim.

islaminaction08.blogspot.com/2008/05/mo-who-were-you-terrorist-thats-who.html

sick, just sick

 

[exoflare]

I haven’t had time to read this whole thing yet, but this seems like it’s going to be interesting… OP, are you still considering converting to Islam at this point?

 

[ChristopherL]

sick, just sick

Yes, the truth is sick. But Muslims do not want the truth spoken. That is why they continually try to squash free speech.

 

[ChristopherL]

Hey - I get it!

My spin on it might be different than yours though - I will not submit to some moon god that says in its koran that it hates me and other infidels, or anyone who asks questions!

“ALLAH DESIRES KILLING TO MANIFEST ISLAM” - Muhammad

“ALLAH HATES YOU FOR ASKING TOO MANY QUESTIONS” - Muhammad (Hadith Bukhari)

Anyway - good night, I am bugging out of here.

 

[wth1257]

I haven’t had time to read this whole thing yet, but this seems like it’s going to be interesting… OP, are you still considering converting to Islam at this point?

Yes, primairly in the strain of Maulana Muhammad Ali and Sufism.

 

[exoflare]

One thing I noticed when I was reading this thread, and somebody had inquired about the possibility of considering Judaism, was when you said Judaism was a little to ethnocentric for your taste. That seemed a little telling… just out of curiosity, how much would you say your “taste” factors into this decision as compared to how much you really desire objective truth? Sorry if that comes off the wrong way but I really do think it’s an important question.

 

[wth1257]

One thing I noticed when I was reading this thread, and somebody had inquired about the possibility of considering Judaism, was when you said Judaism was a little to ethnocentric for your taste. That seemed a little telling… just out of curiosity, how much would you say your “taste” factors into this decision as compared to how much you really desire objective truth? Sorry if that comes off the wrong way but I really do think it’s an important question.

Objective truth is primary

 

[exoflare]

Okay. I don’t know if anyone mentioned this before I did (still haven’t read the whole thing yet), but as far as the Trinity goes, have you read Frank Sheed’s book Theology and Sanity yet? It explains the Trinity perfectly. Not exhaustively by any means, but at least it thoroughly exposes all the logical shortcomings of the “three versus one” polemic.