Why I am Drifting from Catholicism to Islam

[R_not]

It’s more than a little surprising to see Catholics and other Christians bashing Islam, based on the history of those Moslems who act as extreme terrorists in various socities.

All I can speak to is Catholicism. It stands with the notion that three major religious groups are monotheistic, worshiping the One and Only God. I can say with certainty that this teaching has been in place since at least the early 1950s when I learned it in Catholic grammar school. The politics of the world have changed but the teaching has not changed. Jews, Christians and Moslems worship one God and in that way, we stand together. As far as the Catholic Church teaches, anything else is a lie - based in bigotry and prejudice.

To look at Middle Eastern terrorists as typical Moslems is the same as looking at European Nazis and fascists as perfect Christians. In other words, such thinking does not compute with the reality of the religions.

As Catholics, we believe that we hold the fullness of truth - meaning Judaism, Islam and Christian denominationals hold no interest for me in the development of my Faith; but they also hold no threat to me and my faith. These three faiths of monotheism are as close as humanity has come to the mutual/joined worship of one God. Attacking any of them can bring only harm to all. I wish that everyone would separate their politics from their faith in this discussion.

There is no way to separate politics from islam. islam is politics - it is a system to control a muslim’s every waking movement. islam is an imperialistic movement that uses religion as a front.

There is no tie between islam and the other two religions - Judaism and Christianity. It was only in the mind of mohammed - who based islam on his pagan religion that worshiped the moon god, al-ilah. All the rites are of that religion - the kabaa, hajj, running around it and snorting, throwing rocks, etc.

All one has to do is read the koran and hadiths to know how screwed up his versions of the Bible are that he threw in - he was illiterate so probably just threw in the stories that he remembered, poorly. He told his followers that WE rewrote the bible and we will be condemned to hades and if they did that with islam - they will be condemned to hades - hence the whole crux of the problem will never be rewritten - the koran and hadiths.

sharia law: frontpagemag.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID=8AD3D2F1-FD2C-4E78-B233-2F97FCF97B94 or

 

[catharina]

Catharina, have you been reading the Qur’an, its commentaries, and hadiths lately?

There’s a big difference between baseless bigotry and honest criticism. And honestly, authoritative Islamic texts pretty much speak for themselves… If anything from them sounds rather off, it’s not our fault.

Speaking of politics… I suggest you go read up on Sharia Law.

And besides, if they worship the same God as we do, why do a good deal hate us so? (Again, I’m not saying everyone does…)

We base our arguments on quotations, so don’t shoot the messenger.

I suggest you study the Catholic faith.
If the Church ever quotes your “wisdom” then I’ll be sure to accept it.
Meanwhile your interpretation of another faith is worth about 2 cents.

 

[catharina]

There is no way to separate politics from islam. islam is politics - it is a system to control a muslim’s every waking movement. islam is an imperialistic movement that uses religion as a front.

There is no tie between islam and the other two religions - Judaism and Christianity. It was only in the mind of mohammed - who based islam on his pagan religion that worshiped the moon god, al-ilah. All the rites are of that religion - the kabaa, hajj, running around it and snorting, throwing rocks, etc.

All one has to do is read the koran and hadiths to know how screwed up his versions of the Bible are that he threw in - he was illiterate so probably just threw in the stories that he remembered, poorly. He told his followers that WE rewrote the bible and we will be condemned to hades and if they did that with islam - they will be condemned to hades - hence the whole crux of the problem will never be rewritten - the koran and hadiths.

sharia law: frontpagemag.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID=8AD3D2F1-FD2C-4E78-B233-2F97FCF97B94 or

I checked your profile and see that you say you’re Catholic.

That being the case, I’ll advise you that you’re teaching AGAINST Church Teaching that declares three worldwide religions to be monotheistic. Islam is one of them. Pull your nose out of the Koran and study (and live) your Catholic Faith.

We are to preach the Good News, not messages of hatred.

 

[Glaucon]

I suggest you study the Catholic faith.
If the Church ever quotes your “wisdom” then I’ll be sure to accept it.
Meanwhile your interpretation of another faith is worth about 2 cents.

(Please Note: This uploaded content is no longer available.)

Sigh… Oh well, I tried.

I did study the Catholic faith. Otherwise, I’d never have become a Catholic.

What makes you say that I’m pushing my wisdom here?

For the record, let me make this clear: I am not against Muslims per se, but the injustices heaped upon Jews, fellow Christians (especially in the Middle East), other non-Muslims, and even innocent Muslims, and what jihadists use as a pretext to commit such atrocities.

But what’s in the Qur’an’s in the Qur’an. Can’t change that. No amount of wishing it away and everything would turn out just fine would.

Ever heard of the word “whistleblower” before?

 

[wth1257]

You are wasting your time. wth1257 doesn’t want to hear, or read, anything bad about islam. If he starts asking questions to you about it - he will do the same as he has done to others - reject it. The plain truth is out there for all. I suspect the MSA wahabbis on whatever campus he was/is on have gotten to him.

He doesn’t understand the concept that lying is indeed sanctioned in islam and that is what they will do to entrap people. Many of us have already gone over all of this with him.

but, hey - maybe you can succeed where others have failed. good luck.

Actually if you look back you will see that I listed four very potent criticisms of Islam.

Simply because I’m not gullible enough to buy the same propaganda that you have bought hook, line, and sinker doesn’t mean I can’t think critically about Islam.

 

[Verisimilitude]

That being the case, I’ll advise you that you’re teaching AGAINST Church Teaching that declares three worldwide religions to be monotheistic. Islam is one of them. Pull your nose out of the Koran and study (and live) your Catholic Faith.

That is not exactly true. There are many threads regarding the topic:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=3627324&postcount=37

We are to preach the Good News, not messages of hatred.

The Good News is truth. The Quran is not.

 

[Verisimilitude]

Simply because I’m not gullible enough to buy the same propaganda that you have bought hook, line, and sinker doesn’t mean I can’t think critically about Islam.

What propaganda has been passed as fact that you have found false?

 

[wth1257]

You too!

There have been people who are actually hiding that they are Christians in muslim lands (morning star) that told wth what the ugly truth is - and wth is bent on being a muslim. I suppose it is cool. I was never ‘cool’ so I don’t know what that feels like.

I said before I was going to bed - and I think that I mean it now. Sweet dreams!

yeah, it’s “cool” in present day America to be a Muslim.

 

[ChristopherL]

It’s more than a little surprising to see Catholics and other Christians bashing Islam, based on the history of those Moslems who act as extreme terrorists in various socities.

All I can speak to is Catholicism. It stands with the notion that three major religious groups are monotheistic, worshiping the One and Only God. I can say with certainty that this teaching has been in place since at least the early 1950s when I learned it in Catholic grammar school. The politics of the world have changed but the teaching has not changed. Jews, Christians and Moslems worship one God and in that way, we stand together. As far as the Catholic Church teaches, anything else is a lie - based in bigotry and prejudice.

To look at Middle Eastern terrorists as typical Moslems is the same as looking at European Nazis and fascists as perfect Christians. In other words, such thinking does not compute with the reality of the religions.

As Catholics, we believe that we hold the fullness of truth - meaning Judaism, Islam and Christian denominationals hold no interest for me in the development of my Faith; but they also hold no threat to me and my faith. These three faiths of monotheism are as close as humanity has come to the mutual/joined worship of one God. Attacking any of them can bring only harm to all. I wish that everyone would separate their politics from their faith in this discussion.

So speaking the truth these days is considered “bashing”? Terrorism is not the only problem with Islam. Political Islam is an even bigger threat to life as we know it. As for your last sentence. You do not even make sense. Ignoring a problem does not make it go away and if you knew about Islam. You would know that their is no seperation from politics and religion, under Islam.

So you consider the harsh and abusive treatment of Christians in Islamic countries as “close to humanity”. In the real world all is not equal.

 

[wth1257]

What propaganda has been passed as fact that you have found false?

that MSA is a puppet regime of the Muslim Brotherhood as are all the agents who work through it, that Muslims are involved in a global conspiracy to trick the West, that there are no nuances in Islam, that Christians are to be slain in Islam, that Islam has been engaged in a perpetual war against the west, that “moderate” Muslims are universally complacent.

 

[wth1257]

That is not exactly true. There are many threads regarding the topic:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=3627324&postcount=37

The Good News is truth. The Quran is not.

Vatican II affirmed that Muslims worship the same God as Christians.

 

[ChristopherL]

I suggest you study the Catholic faith.
If the Church ever quotes your “wisdom” then I’ll be sure to accept it.
Meanwhile your interpretation of another faith is worth about 2 cents.

No, YOUR interpretation is worth less then 2 cents. You are in a fantasy world.

Here are Christian leaders who have spoken the same as us about Islam.

Rod Parsley,
Despite his call for the U.S. to win the “hearts and minds of the Islamic world,” Sen. John McCain recruited the support of an evangelical minister who describes Islam as “anti-Christ” and Mohammed as “the mouthpiece of a conspiracy of spiritual evil.”

abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=4905624&page=1

Pastor Hagee on Islam,
I was greatly blessed by Pastor Hagee’s teachings on Islam wherein he gives an accurate portrayal of the Quran, the injunction of Allah to kill infidels and the devotion of Muslims to be martyrs.

Swaggart Jr on Islam actually sells the book “Because They Hate”.

There are more speaking out against Islam, like the POPE. But I guess you know better.

He said, I quote, ‘Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached.’"

 

[catharina]

http://www.terminally-incoherent.com/img/facepalm.jpeg

Sigh… Oh well, I tried.

I did study the Catholic faith. Otherwise, I’d never have become a Catholic.

What makes you say that I’m pushing my wisdom here?

For the record, let me make this clear: I am not against Muslims per se, but the injustices heaped upon Jews, fellow Christians (especially in the Middle East), other non-Muslims, and even innocent Muslims, and what jihadists use as a pretext to commit such atrocities.

But what’s in the Qur’an’s in the Qur’an. Can’t change that. No amount of wishing it away and everything would turn out just fine would.

Ever heard of the word “whistleblower” before?

Since you are now Catholic, you must know that your duty is to continue the study and practice of your faith. The practice is based in the worship of God and spreading the Good News. Denigrating another religion does not qualify as either.

Re your “wisdom” - it’s NOT Church Teaching - as I already stated.

Whistleblower? I’ve been that twice: first, to stop the sexual abuse of dependent children (at a girls’ shelter); and second, to stop the discriminatory treatment of the elderly based on their minority racial/religious status. Yes, I was fired both times and my life ground to a halt; it wasn’t pleasant or easy but I’d do it again. My going public with the messes did make for good and lasting changes. VERY VERY worth it.

As far as injustices, I don’t know when you became Catholic but perhaps you remember the Holy Father (JP II) addressing the extreme needs of the Palestinian people (all of whom are Christian or Moslem). All injustice is wrong.

We are Catholic. We preach the Good News for and to all.

 

[R_not]

I suggest you study the Catholic faith.
If the Church ever quotes your “wisdom” then I’ll be sure to accept it.
Meanwhile your interpretation of another faith is worth about 2 cents.

I would suggest not discounting what he has to say. All you have to do is pay attention to what is happening worldwide of all those ‘misinterpreters’ of islam.

Tell me how these passages can be misinterpreted:
“WE ARE MEN WHO THINK THERE IS NO SHAME IN KILLING” - Muhammad (Ishaq:489)

-”KILLING DISBELIEVERS IS A SMALL MATTER TO US” - Muhammad (Tabari)

“WE REJECT YOU [NON-MUSLIMS]. HOSTILITY AND HATE HAVE COME BETWEEN US FOREVER, UNLESS YOU BELIEVE IN ALLAH ONLY” - Surah 60:5 (Allah’s word; thus mandatory)

“KILL EVERY JEW” - Muhammad (Ishaq)

“ALLAH DESIRES KILLING TO MANIFEST ISLAM” - Muhammad

“ALLAH HATES YOU FOR ASKING TOO MANY QUESTIONS” - Muhammad (Hadith Bukhari)

Or better yet - tell me the difference between these two men (I suspect you might not know too much about mohammed - if not, then there is a website to look into it and then you won’t just dismiss this danger to us all:
bibleprobe.com/muhammad.htm)

1. “I was ordered to fight all men until they say ‘There is no god but Allah.’” prophet Mohammad’s farewell address, March 632
2. “I was ordered to fight the people until they say there is no god but Allah, and his prophet Mohammed.”

Osama bin Laden, Nov 2001

**many people have studied other religions and there is not the outcry from the practitioners of those other religions as there is with anyone studying islam. Why is that? Because muslims are used to the fact that anyone who questioned islam, especially infidels, were killed. Muslims themselves are not used to questioning their own religion, hence we have a lot of ignorant muslims who know nothing of mohammed and his dispicable deeds - enslavement, raping and telling his followers it is ok to rape the slaves they have, stealing, lying, torture and murder. **

 

[Verisimilitude]

that MSA is a puppet regime of the Muslim Brotherhood as are all the agents who work through it

I’m a little slow this morning- MSA? Please define.

, that Muslims are involved in a global conspiracy to trick the West,

I don’t know about tricking, but they can lie because all is for allah and is a tenet of their faith.

that there are no nuances in Islam

It all favors Mulsims and the non-Muslim is marginalized. Such nuance is not relevant.

, that Christians are to be slain in Islam,

Sura 9:29 and some in Chapter 2 and elsewhere in the Koran.

that Islam has been engaged in a perpetual war against the west

Once they left Arabia right after Mohammed died…this is true. Only since the late 1800’s has there been a respite which is now growing again.

that “moderate” Muslims are universally complacent.

Define moderate.

 

[Glaucon]

Re your “wisdom” - it’s NOT Church Teaching - as I already stated.

Again, this is not my wisdom I’m talking about here.

And just because it ain’t Church teaching, does it mean it’s not true?

 

[R_not]

Oh by the way Catharina - maybe take a look at the section we are in: non-Catholic Religions.

Why are you telling us not to discuss non-Catholic faiths when we are in the correct section to begin with?

 

[Verisimilitude]

Vatican II affirmed that Muslims worship the same God as Christians.

Try using some of that nuance you spoke about earlier. What they said was Muslims acknowledge the One God. They give no creedence to allah or Mohammed. Big difference.

 

[Glaucon]

Oh by the way Catharina - maybe take a look at the section we are in: non-Catholic Religions.

Why are you telling us not to discuss non-Catholic faiths when we are in the correct section to begin with?

Seconded.

Now don’t let me post another Captain Picard facepalm pic especially for you…

 

[R_not]

Rod Parsley,
Despite his call for the U.S. to win the “hearts and minds of the Islamic world,” Sen. John McCain recruited the support of an evangelical minister who describes Islam as “anti-Christ” and Mohammed as “the mouthpiece of a conspiracy of spiritual evil.”

abcnews.go.com/Blotter/story?id=4905624&page=1

Swaggart Jr on Islam actually sells the book “Because They Hate”.

There are more speaking out against Islam, like the POPE. But I guess you know better.

He said, I quote, ‘Show me just what Mohammed brought that was new, and there you will find things only evil and inhuman, such as his command to spread by the sword the faith he preached.’"

Good news! Maybe our politicians, and also religious leaders, are ‘getting it’!!

I don’t listen to Swaggart, but many do - and that is great that he is getting it too.

Appeasing has not worked in any country that the muslims have migrated to - in fact, it works to the detriment of the host population. We need to stand up for our laws and ways in our country. We are a great country and a beacon of hope to so many.