Why I Am Not A Roman Catholic

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Linda:
It sounds as though you believe in soul sleep… is this correct?
I do not add to the scriptures. There are many passages that describe dead. Paul spoke of those who sleep in Christ. Paul placed a difference when he said, “And we which** are alive** and remain shall not prevent them which are asleep” and he says, "the dead in Christ shall rise first. So there is a difference between us and the dead. They need to be resurrected. Only the resurrection can bring a person back from death. Like Lazarus for example.
Ecclesiastes says that the spirit shall return to the one who gave it and our bodies to dust.
I have seen a dead person. He is dead. He is not here not anywhere. He is dead.
 
My Episcopal church had a confessional box. But my confessor, at the Cathedral of St. John the Divine in NYC did it at the altar rail, as most Episcopalians do. His twist was that he used a Byzantine form and KNELT BESIDE ME. He was my confessor for 18 years. What a saint! It was because of his outstanding ministry of this sacrament that I DREADED confession as practiced in the Catholic Church. However, five months into the game, I found a confessor who is OUTSTANDING. He hears my confessions by appointment.

Sentimental touch. My mentor, an Anglican bishop , left me the furnishings of his country chapel. I gave his white-on-one-side/violet-on-the-other stole to Monsignor, and he wears it to hear my confessions. :bighanky:
Reply:
If Memory serves???

Jesus granted to Peter and the Apostles the ability to forgive or not forgive sin’s" What am I missing here?

I am delighted to hear that others find a need to confess, but am unsure that “others” really are endowed with the authority?

Why would confession at a rail, be easier than in a confessional?

Do “others” take a vow of secrecy?

John Chapter 20:19"On the evening of that day, the first day of the week, the doors being shut where the disciples were, for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them and said to them, “Peace be with you.” 20 When he had said this, he showed them his hands and his side. Then the disciples were glad when they saw the Lord. 21* Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.” 22* ** And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23* If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.” **

Please enlighten me,
God bless,
PJM m.c.
 
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Carjack1:
To Carjack; I do not read your posts.
I’m not playing your silly game.
 
Why you should be a Catholic,

Mt. 16:13-19 and John Chapter six:thumbsup:

God bless you my friend in Christ!

PJM m.c.
 
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Carjack1:
“Luther popped up 1500 years after our Church.”

Yeah right and so did the printing press which God conveniently gave at the same time to get his word out.
 
I’m trying to understand why someone would leave their family, study for many years, forgo marriage and ordinary family life, fast, pray, and endure a seemingly unbroken stream of half-witted critics, just to perpetrate a fraud designed to lead people away from Jesus. It seems that being a news editor or peddler of bathtub gin would be an easier tactic - and the pay is better.
 
I’m trying to understand why someone would leave their family, study for many years, forgo marriage and ordinary family life, fast, pray, and endure a seemingly unbroken stream of half-witted critics, just to perpetrate a fraud designed to lead people away from Jesus. It seems that being a news editor or peddler of bathtub gin would be an easier tactic - and the pay is better.
What a disturbingly twisted view of the priesthood. I will tell you this: I started practicing Christianity as a Protestant in 1992. I had been too Baptist, Missionary Alliance, and Methodist churches during this time. In 2007, I visited a Catholic Church for the first time. I started the RCIA program in September of that same year, and was confirmed in March 2008. I have just attended a parish retreat for the first time, and for the first time I prayed and I felt a connection with my Lord and Savior. How dare you say that the Priesthood of the Catholic Church leads people away from Christ! How dare you call the only Church with the fullness of truth a fraud. I encourage you to explore Catholic Answers, and you will see the truth of the Catholic Church.
 
What a disturbingly twisted view of the priesthood. I will tell you this: I started practicing Christianity as a Protestant in 1992. I had been too Baptist, Missionary Alliance, and Methodist churches during this time. In 2007, I visited a Catholic Church for the first time. I started the RCIA program in September of that same year, and was confirmed in March 2008. I have just attended a parish retreat for the first time, and for the first time I prayed and I felt a connection with my Lord and Savior. How dare you say that the Priesthood of the Catholic Church leads people away from Christ! How dare you call the only Church with the fullness of truth a fraud. I encourage you to explore Catholic Answers, and you will see the truth of the Catholic Church.
Excuse me, but may I say another thing…if you felt a connection to the Lord, then this is good. But if you really knew God, you would know that most of what the RCC teaches is not Biblical. If you knew the Bible you would know this.
Also we come to God through Christ not through anything else. If you say that the RCC saved you, then you are on the wrong track, but I can see that God is reaching for you.
 
Excuse me, but I attended a so-called “Bible believing” college. I KNOW scriptures. And I know that the Holy Scriptures are NOT the only revelation of God to man. The Scriptures are profitable, yes, but not exclusive. And truthfully, Protestants don’t even use all of the Scriptures. They are missing six books form the Old Testament, as well as large prtions of Daniel and Esther. If the Roman Catholic Church does not have the truth, then the truth was missing form Christianity until Luther, a concept I cannot accept. That is all I will say right now, as you have risen my anger and I do not wish to act in an unchritable fashion.:mad:
 
Taking scriptures of of their context doesn’t count. Jesus was referring to his power to resurrect the dead. He was speaking of the resurrection and of his power to raise the dead. In other words he told of them after they are resurrected.

**Eccl: 9:4 For to him that is joined to all the living there is hope: for a living dog is better than a dead lion.
5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun. **

And I could give you many more scriptures that prove the dead are dead. Jesus hasn’t resurrected anyone yet.
The only one taking scripture out of context here is you. Let’s look at the above passage as an example.

Firstly, if we take your passage as you wish us to do, and apply it to those who die righteous in Christ, then it ALSO tells us that those who die righteous in Christ NEITHER HAVE ANY MORE A REWARD!

So no heaven for any of us then, even the righteous - for we all shall die in the body certainly, and shall just as certainly, by your logic, receive no reward after death. The passage only makes proper sense if it applies to those who are SPIRITUALLY dead. THEY certainly will have no reward in the afterlife.

Secondly - in case you hadn’t noticed it is an OLD TESTAMENT passage. What makes you think it applies to us of the new covenant any more than the Levitical dietary requirements?

And your idea that the Jews gave us the New Testament is absolutely laughable to scorn. Of course the Jews gave us the very same New Testament where is written, clear as day, that before God there is NEITHER Jew NOR Gentile. 🤷 Where so many of the Jewish OT laws are done away with, where even Our LORD works miracles for, and preaches the Gospel to, and converts, even Samaritans and Romans!
 
I do not add to the scriptures. There are many passages that describe dead. Paul spoke of those who sleep in Christ. Paul placed a difference when he said, “And we which** are alive** and remain shall not prevent them which are asleep” and he says, "the dead in Christ shall rise first. So there is a difference between us and the dead. They need to be resurrected. Only the resurrection can bring a person back from death. Like Lazarus for example.
Ecclesiastes says that the spirit shall return to the one who gave it and our bodies to dust.
I have seen a dead person. He is dead. He is not here not anywhere. He is dead.
BIBLE - 2 Machabees, Chapter 12. Verse 46:
“it is therefore a holy and wholesome thought to pray for the dead,
that they may be loosed from sins.”
 
Ignatius A.D. 30 - 107 disciple of the apostles

Take ye heed, then, to have but one Eucharist. For there is one flesh of our Lord Jesus Christ, and one cup to show forth the unity of His blood; one altar; as there is one bishop, along with the presbytery and deacons, my fellow-servants: that so, whatsoever ye do, ye may do it according to the will of God.

Irenaeus A.D. 120-202 Bishop of Lyon student of Polycarp St.John

Again, giving directions to His disciples to offer to God the first-fruits of His own, created things—not as if He stood in need of them, but that they might be themselves neither unfruitful nor ungrateful—He took that created thing, bread, and gave thanks, and said, “This is My body. And the cup likewise, which is part of that creation to which we belong, He confessed to be His blood, and taught the new oblation of the new covenant; which the Church receiving from the apostles, offers to God throughout all the world, to Him who gives us as the means of subsistence the first-fruits of His own gifts in the New Testament, concerning which Malachi, among the twelve prophets, thus spoke beforehand: “I have no pleasure in you, saith the LORD Omnipotent, and I will not accept sacrifice at your hands. For from the rising of the sun, unto the going down [of the same], My name is glorified among the Gentiles, and in every place incense is offered to My name, and a pure sacrifice; for great is My name among the Gentiles, saith the LORD Omnipotent; indicating in the plainest manner, by these words, that the former people [the Jews] shall indeed cease to make offerings to God, but that in every place sacrifice shall be offered to Him, and that a pure one; and His name is glorified among the Gentiles.

Justin Martyr

And this food is called among us Εὐχαριστία thanksgiving. [the Eucharist], of which no one is allowed to partake but the man who believes that the things which we teach are true, and who has been washed with the washing that is for the remission of sins, and unto regeneration, and who is so living as Christ has enjoined. For not as common bread and common drink do we receive these; but in like manner as Jesus Christ our Saviour, having been made flesh by the Word of God, had both flesh and blood for our salvation, so likewise have we been taught that the food which is blessed by the prayer of His word, and from which our blood and flesh by transmutation are nourished, is the flesh and blood of that Jesus who was made flesh. For the apostles, in the memoirs composed by them, which are called Gospels, have thus delivered unto us what was enjoined upon them; that Jesus took bread, and when He had given thanks, said, “This do ye in remembrance of Me, this is My body;” and that, after the same manner, having taken the cup and given thanks, He said, “This is My blood;” and gave it to them alone. Which the wicked devils have imitated in the mysteries of Mithras, commanding the same thing to be done. For, that bread and a cup of water are placed with certain incantations in the mystic rites of one who is being initiated, you either know or can learn.

Early liturgy practiced by the apostles and early Christians can be read in from a parchment which is extant and written by It was written not earlier than the death of James, Apostle and Martyr, A.D. 42, and probably not later than A.D. 67; when Dionysius, at the request of St. Paul, left Athens to meet the Apostle at Rome, for the purpose of being sent by him to Gaul.

…I crave Thy holy Spirit, that Thou wouldst send Him upon me, and upon these oblations, here set forth, and upon Thy faithful people.” Pr. “Hear me, O Lord.” P. “Kyrie eleison,” three times. Pr. “Through His alighting upon them, and His overshadowing, may He make this bread indeed, living body, and procuring life to our souls; body salutary—body celestial—body saving our souls and bodies—body of our Lord God and Saviour, Jesus Christ—for remission of sins, and eternal life, for those receiving it.” P. “Amen.” Pr. “And the commixture, which is in this cup, may He make living blood, and procuring life to all our souls; blood salutary—blood celestial—blood saving our souls and bodies—blood of our Lord God and Saviour Jesus Christ, for remission of sins to those receiving them.” P. “Amen.” Pr. “Further, according to the tradition, and Divine recommendation of those, who were eye witnesses of Thy mysteries, and interpreters of Thy wonderful acts, we offer this Eucharist before Thee, O Lord, and through it we commemorate Thy charity towards us, and the universal dispensation of Thine Only-begotten One, in this world, that Thou wouldst also be reminded through it of Thy mercy, cognate and natural to Thee, which, at all hours, is shed upon Thy creatures, and wouldst snatch us from the wrath, reserved for the wicked; and from the punishments of those who work iniquity; and from the cruel attack of demons, who attack our souls, when we shall go hence; and wouldst make us worthy of Thy kingdom, and the habitations of those who have kept Thy precepts;
and we will render to Thee, glory and the giving of thanks,

“Amen.” …
 
I do not add to the scriptures. There are many passages that describe dead. Paul spoke of those who sleep in Christ. Paul placed a difference when he said, “And we which** are alive** and remain shall not prevent them which are asleep” and he says, "the dead in Christ shall rise first. So there is a difference between us and the dead. They need to be resurrected. Only the resurrection can bring a person back from death. Like Lazarus for example.
Ecclesiastes says that the spirit shall return to the one who gave it and our bodies to dust.
I have seen a dead person. He is dead. He is not here not anywhere. He is dead.
Amen! The SPIRIT returns to God and the body to dust. Thus, according to your own statement, the soul is alive after death with God (assuming he/she winds up there after judgment.) Since your above statement bears out your belief in this concept, then how can you turn around and claim that when we experience physical death, our soul is dead and cannot experience, know, or hear anything? This is a dichotomy of astronomical proportions!
 
“Luther popped up 1500 years after our Church.”

Yeah right and so did the printing press which God conveniently gave at the same time to get his word out.
You act like Luther was the first to get the bible ‘out there’.
This is not accurate. In Germany alone, the Gutenberg bible was available in 1452 (more than 80 years before Luther’s).

Do you actually believe the bible was ‘hidden from the masses’ before the printing press? Locked away so nobody could take it and study it?

Well, actually, they did lock the bibles down in places.
Before the printing press, the bible was a pretty expensive item.
If they weren’t locked down they would be stolen.

Liken it to a computer in a library today.
Would you say that since the computer is locked to the desk, that the library is keeping the information on it from the people?
Of course not.
As with the bible in the days before the printing press, it is locked down, in a place accessible to the public, so that all of the public is *assured *access to it.

Luther was not the first to bring the bible to the people of Germany, the Catholic Church was.

michel
 
I liked the op topic. I am not a Catholic for some reasons. I’d list them, but not really related to the topic at hand.
Reply:

My dear friend in Christ,

Might I suggest that one should use prudence it what one ask for? After all, you may get what you want.

God bless you,

PJM m.c.
 
actually that is one of the serious errors about the Mass nowadays. it is NOT primarily about community. the Eucharist is more about the sacrifice on Calvary, His true body and blood being present, the worship of God directly in a more vertical structure, while the horizontal structure of being in community is, if anything, secondary. if people knew this, truly believed, and had the reverence for the Eucharist that our holy fathers have been talking about, the community aspect would flow automatically.

my assumption is that this backwards perspective is why it seems like we are failing. protestants seem to do much better because the focus is more on the gathering, so they are able to focus more on what the people want, which unfortunately is often the quality of preaching, music, etc. with us, the source and summit are not these things, it is the actual presence of God coming to meet us, the Eucharist, heaven actually coming down to earth to be with us. it doesn’t matter how bad the preaching is, how bad the music is, or how much money is given. all of Salvation History, all of Creation, the entire Bible, unfolds before our eyes and in our presence. if people don’t see these things, it is just a boring gathering.

forgive me if i am explaining it very poorly, but the deeper you go, the more this becomes apparent, the more God’s splendor and the awesomeness of our faith comes alive 100-fold. when this becomes apparent, the entertaining Sunday service of the non-Catholic becomes a spec of dust in comparison. (although fellowship, praise and worship, Bible study, and community activities are wonderful ways of living the faith outside of the highest form of church worship - the Holy Mass.)
Reply:

My dear friend in Christ, you are right and you are correct. Thanks for the OP

Still, there is a great and urgent need in our catholic churchs for more community, fellowship and unity. It puzzles me greatly that the "Church of Love, does such a dismal job in this area of fraterinity.😦 Let us pray.

No doubt lack of space in the narthix is at least part of the issue.This is why, oh so many, talk in church like it’s a social gathering?

Some church’s offer coffee and doughnuts after every Mass. Not a bad start.

God bless, and thanks again for a good post.

PJM m.c.
 
Nowhere in the Bible does it tell us to pray to dead people, or to anyone in heaven or in hell.
Jesus Christ is the only mediator between us and God.
This is Bible.
In fact the Bible condemns talking to dead people.
Oh really:o Reply: Where does it tell us that?

2 Mac.Chapter 12: "

39 On the next day, as by that time it had become necessary, Judas and his men went to take up the bodies of the fallen and to bring them back to lie with their kinsmen in the sepulchres of their fathers. 40 Then under the tunic of every one of the dead they found sacred tokens of the idols of Jamnia, which the law forbids the Jews to wear. And it became clear to all that this was why these men had fallen. 41 So they all blessed the ways of the Lord, the righteous Judge, who reveals the things that are hidden; 42 and they turned to prayer, beseeching that the sin which had been committed might be wholly blotted out. And the noble Judas exhorted the people to keep themselves free from sin, for they had seen with their own eyes what had happened because of the sin of those who had fallen. 43 He also took up a collection, man by man, to the amount of two thousand drachmas of silver, and sent it to Jerusalem to provide for a sin offering. In doing this he acted very well and honorably, taking account of the resurrection.** 44 For if he were not expecting that those who had fallen would rise again, it would have been superfluous and foolish to pray for the dead. 45 But if he was looking to the splendid reward that is laid up for those who fall asleep in godliness, it was a holy and pious thought. Therefore he made atonement for the dead, that they might be delivered from their sin**

If God is Perfect {God is) and God tells us “to be perfect” (and He does in Mt. 5:48) is it not possible (actually very likely) that some human beings (likely very many) die with sins on their souls?

If we accept this reality that only Perfection can be in the Presence of God, who cannot, willnot accept anything less, then if we don’t pray for the dead (because they can nolonger pray for themselves) how do they become purified and perfect? How do they get to heaven?:rolleyes:

Recall that Mary was made to be Perfect inorder to become the Mother of God. “Hail full of Grace” Mt. 26:26.👍

God bless you,
PJM m.c.
 
Reply:
If Memory serves???

Jesus granted to Peter and the Apostles the ability to forgive or not forgive sin’s" What am I missing here?

I am delighted to hear that others find a need to confess, but am unsure that “others” really are endowed with the authority?

Why would confession at a rail, be easier than in a confessional?

Do “others” take a vow of secrecy?

John Chapter 20:19"On the evening of that day, the first day of the week, the doors being shut where the disciples were, for fear of the Jews, Jesus came and stood among them and said to them, “Peace be with you.” 20 When he had said this, he showed them his hands and his side. Then the disciples were glad when they saw the Lord. 21* Jesus said to them again, “Peace be with you. As the Father has sent me, even so I send you.” 22* *And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and said to them, "Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained." **

Please enlighten me,
God bless,
PJM m.c.
Chill, Bro. You are missing my point. I was responding to the OP, who claimed that Anglicans do not “believe” in sacramental confession. I do not challenge the authority of the Catholic Church to be the custodian of the sacrament.

I am saying that in the Anglican Communion, THEY BELIEVE that their Apostolic Succession is intact and that it gives them the grace to administer Confession as a Sacrament. The general rule is “All may. Some should. None must.” Anglicans who use this sacrament tend to do so with great devotion. And I can say that the Lord is generous with His graces, when we approach him sincerely, even when our view of the matter is defective.

I was perfectly content to confess all of the sins of my life that had been repented, amended, confessed and “absolved” when I came into the Catholic Church.

I don’t understand why you ask whether confessing at an altar rail would be “easier” than in a confessional. The point was that most Anglican churches have no confessionals. (Come to think of it most Catholic Churches no longer have altar rails.) It WAS moving that my confessor knelt beside me . . .

Anglican priests who hear confessions are bound by the same rule of secrecy as are Catholic and Orthodox priests.

I would think it more profitable to commend our Anglican brethren, many of whom live lives that are more “Catholic” in form and more orthodox in content that many of the Catholics sitting next you in church on Sunday than to chide them for their inadequacies.
 
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