Why I believe many Gays turn away from the Church.

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interestedman said:
Homosexuality isn’t really defying societal convention anymore. Unless you live in some backwoods hick area.
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Interested,

Thank you for providing insight into your thinking. My mind, me, what I think and believe, my understanding…this is what defines societal norms…it matters not where I live, New York, Boston, San Francisco…a backwoods hick area…I take my mind and norms with me…

Homosexuality is defying societal norms in my mind…thank you for providing your insight into what you think and believe…
 
interestedman said:
Do I know the hearts of people I don’t know? I guess not. Can I read through thinly veiled hate on an internet forum…yes, and it doesn’t even take supernatural ability.
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of course it does take supernatural ability if people say they love them but disagree with homesexual relationships. so show me the many people who have posted they hate gays
 
Disagreeing with homosexual behavior isn’t hate…but many Catholics and Christians hate gays…I would say that a whole lot of people on this board hate gays whether they believe it or not.
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I actually had a roommate in college who was gay. I used to hang out with him, his boyfriend together with my other friends.

I also dated a girl on and off for almost a year who had lesbian parents.

Still think I hate gays?

I wonder how many of the straights in this country**–or on this forum— **who run around flashing how tolerant and enlightened they are would give a GLBTQ person the time of day, just like they bleat over and over “help the poor!” for the faraway, safe reaches of their cul de sacs and condos.
I guarantee that a LOT of people on these boards, if they saw two men holding hands and maybe giving each other an innocent kiss on the lips, would get upset and show serious resentment towards them.
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I’ll wager against that guarantee.

Maybe you WISH there was hate so that it would further your argument. But I don’t see it.

In the Middle East, that’s what men who are good friends do. They are often mistaken for homosexuals.

Remember when the left squealed about Bush going arm and arm with the Saudi prince?

That’s a sign of friendship among Arabs.

Also, family members kiss each other on the lips. Why would anyone feel resentment without knowing the culture or the situation?
That is hate in my opinion.
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I think your opinion is uninformed and just designed to convert others to your way of thinking by making them fear you will pull out the hate speech card at any second.

It won’t work with me.
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interestedman said:
Well they separate themselves from the God that you believe in. There are plenty of Christians that believe that a homosexual lifestyle is completely compatible with God’s teachings.
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Interested,

I can see that division in Christianity is causing a problem as you point out, as if there is this Christianity and that Christianity causing folks like you to believe that God teaches some this and some that…Division does cause problems…and then the question is if you find that this group you speak of adheres to your belief that Homosexuality is compatible with God’s teachings…have you evaluated all Christian groups to see what it is they say God teaches?
 
interestedman said:
Disagreeing with homosexual behavior isn’t hate…but many Catholics and Christians hate gays…I would say that a whole lot of people on this board hate gays whether they believe it or not. I guarantee that a LOT of people on these boards, if they saw two men holding hands and maybe giving each other an innocent kiss on the lips, would get upset and show serious resentment towards them. That is hate in my opinion.
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I don’t know if I would use the word “hate”, but there is definitely an undercurrent of disgust that runs through many heterosexual people when it comes to our community. You can hear it in people’s voices and you can read it in the things they post. I would bet that they aren’t even aware of it, it’s unconcious. We are different, and different can be unsettling and even frightening to people. Part of the reason that people “come out” is to show that the majority of gay people are NOT the people you see on TV at the gay pride parade or the activists that scream invectives against the Church. Most of our “lifestyle” is pretty similar to yours-go to work, clean the house, do the laundry and the shopping, maybe hang out on the weekend with a few friends-even go to Church!
 
actualy your post that people who disagree with you live in some hick backard area shows your hate coming out
 
interestedman said:
You can say that Catholics hate the sin, not the sinner, but its pretty much the same thing. “I don’t hate you, I just hate how you show love for your partner and think it will send you to hell.” If someone told me that about the way I show love for my wife I would tell them in not so kind words that I wouldn’t want anything to do with them.
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Interested,

Here you have a misunderstanding. The question is how do you define love?

Love is sodomizing my partner or instrumenting my partner towards the only end of any of these acts…pleasure. Monogamy is statistically not part of these relationships and monogamy is defined as a permissive attitude towards these relationships.

You want me to accept this as love. I cannot and therefore when you say you show love for your partner…I do not accept this as love and reject the entire notion…
 
dchezik said:
Do you understand this??? The Word? What Word? The Word was God? What does that mean? Does this make the study of cosmology irrelevant? Have we now understood the origin of the universe? Should we inform scientists like Hawking and the others that there is no need to expatiate further. **We now know how the universe began. ** I’m sorry about the sarcasm! I got carried away!

Can you help me understand Christian teaching on this? Can you tell me what Christian teaching has to say about other universes?

If you will enlighten on Christian teaching, I will try to teach you something about modern cosmology. Fair enough?
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Dchezik,

We know how the Universe began? When did this occur? I don’t know this.
 
CopticChristian said:
Interested,

Thank you for providing insight into your thinking. My mind, me, what I think and believe, my understanding…this is what defines societal norms…it matters not where I live, New York, Boston, San Francisco…a backwoods hick area…I take my mind and norms with me…

Homosexuality is defying societal norms in my mind…thank you for providing your insight into what you think and believe…
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How can an individual decide what “societal” norms are??? Societal norms are what is normal in society not what one person views as normal.
 
interestedman said:
Except no one wants to hear your opinions on what will send them to hell. Because that is all it is, an opinion. How would you feel if someone came up to you and said “you know, I think you are going to hell for going to Catholic Church…I don’t hate you, I just hate the sin of you going to Catholic Church. I am worried for your soul.” How would you view that person?
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Interested,

Fundamentalists and other Protestant groups do this all the time. I have, perhaps you have not, been evangelized by Protestants that say just that. This is part and parcel of their belief. I view them as uneducated, lacking knowledge, and inculcated into a thinking that has no basis in reality…just as I do others that try to promote irregular thinking.
 
saveusfromhell said:
of course it does take supernatural ability if people say they love them but disagree with homesexual relationships. so show me the many people who have posted they hate gays
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It is thinly veiled hate…as in no one says they hate gays, they just imply it strongly with their speech.
 
interestedman said:
Maybe some of them do this but **I have a feeling a lot of them just reject that God would disapprove of their love. ** They just believe that the Church is wrong on the issue and that God either does not exist, or does not hate homosexuality.
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Interested,

And here you have the crux of your understanding. Define Love. What is love? baby don’t hurt me…oh no…whoa, whoa, oh…oh no…

Define love.
 
saveusfromhell said:
actualy your post that people who disagree with you live in some hick backard area shows your hate coming out
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I never said this. I said that homosexuality isn’t against societal norms UNLESS you live in a hick area. Go to just about any major city that isn’t populated by hicks and ask people if homosexuality defies societal norms…I would imagine the overwhelming majority would say no.
 
Publisher said:
In my experience with those gay and lesbiam people I am acquainted with, they are not ignorant of the disdain they get from “Christians”. Just a cursory read of this thread gives a very “telling” message as to why gay people walk away from the church. Quite simply, the ARE NOT loved…they ARE NOT afforded the dignity and compassion from “Christians”.

Their motives are slandered. They are called “selfish”…“disordered”…“abominations”…they are told they are going to hell. They are ostracized, called “child molestors”…“depraved destroyers of marriage and family”…“destructors of society”…none of which could stand up in the scrutiny of even being remotely examples of “love”. Who said something to the effect “truth without compassion is brutality”? Gay people ARE brutalized by those who claim to follow Jesus of Nazareth…why on God’s green earth would anyone wish to subject themselves to such abuse?

Most gay men and lesbian women deal with rejection and abuse from family, friends and society EVERY DAY as it is. Why would they wish to enter a place of supposed sanctuary where the love and mercy of God’s grace is not exibited towards them…yet it is claimed that it is?

To the point of the previous few posts…they also are very aware of the hypocricy within the church that for the most part embraces those straight people “living in sin” without the same vitrol being heaped upon them…why? Because a great number of your straight people would walk too…no doubt the church has it’s stance on divorce and remarriage as well as same sex marriage…BUT gay people are very much a small minority who are seeking marriage as compared to those straight people in your midst who officially are outside the doctrinal confines of human sexuality as gay people are…but with little or no consequence…oh there may be a cursury mention behind closed doors…annulment processes may be in place to help recitify some of the illicit relationships among straight people…but for the most part a blind eye is turned and very little is done in comparison toward straight people to make the straight feel just as unwelcome as gay people are made to feel…even though gay people are the very smallest percentage of those on the “outs” when it comes to sexual conduct.

I have attended MCC with some gay friends several times…as one sits in the congregation and observes, you can always tell who the new-commers are. When the invitation is given to receive the eucharist, many are in tears if not open sobbing as they walk to the alter rail to receive communion…oh…and yes I know according to Catholics it’s not the “real eucharist”…but I doubt if those going forward to recieve the body and blood of Christ has that thought crossing their minds…what they hear is “This is the Table of the Lord…He welcomes all at his Table, no one will be turned away, come and receive healing for your wounded heart, your broken lives” It is a very moving scene to watch men and women of “former faith” for the first time in years to hear that they are loved by God.

No, gay people don’t walk away because they “refuse to give up their lifestyle”…“are selfish”…they walk away because their hearts yearn to be loved and healed…and they’re not going to get it in church from their all to painful experience.
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Publisher,

Sin. What sinner is not asked to give up their sin and come to follow Christ when joining the Church? Name one sin that you can bring into the Church and ask…can I keep doing this sin and join?
 
interestedman said:
I never said this. I said that homosexuality isn’t against societal norms UNLESS you live in a hick area. Go to just about any major city that isn’t populated by hicks and ask people if homosexuality defies societal norms…I would imagine the overwhelming majority would say no.
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so people who don’t agree with you live in a hick area. even if its a city, its a hick city if it disagres with your views. thats a very intolerant view of people who don’t agree with your view of the world
 
The question “Why” has tried to be answered…even answered by some of us who have close gay friends…answered by those of us who have sat with them and shared their pain as they relay their experiences…some of their experiences are absolutely heartbreaking…we’ve tried to offer some insight THEY THEMSELVES RELAY…yet from some of the responses as to the “Why…” all I see is further rejection of the idea that perhaps the fault might lay on some of the shoulders of “Christians”…but it seems to accept that burden…that cross…on “your” shoulders…is much too painful to bear…or even contemplate…and the “Why…” some of us have relayed to you in answer to the question posed in the title of this thread is out right rejection of the possibility “you” may have caused in “gays turning away”…it’s so easy to tell gay people they must carry their cross…when no cross is accepted on “our” part of their feelings of rejection.🤷
 
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