Why Is Catholicism So Unattractive to Evangelicals?

[Peter_J]

What, that’s a bad thing?

Heh, just wanted to see if anyone was still paying attention. But really, I always say that Catholicism is not a website (I think that used to be my signature).

 

[Church_Militant]

I’m not panicking. I looked up the book and I do not care for Sci-Fi or Monty Python humor, so I highly doubt I will ever read the book, but thanks for the suggestion.

I don’t see how a Sci-Fi book could have anything to do with the original topic of this bread.

Sense of humor…handy thing to have my friend… No one said a word about MP…just a reference to something that you apparently are unfamiliar…no big deal…Did you ever read any of Tolkien? Just curious…

So, you are saying that Catholics are closer to God than other religions?

:ehh: Those of us who are converts or reverts can perhaps say that we feel that to be the case, but that’s subjective.

You can always check out My Testimony

 

[ltwin]

It has to do with them wanting to rely on themselves and not having to answer to anyone for what they do.

Oh yeah, that’s why we go to church Sunday morning, Sunday night,and Wednesday nights. That’s why we pay tithes to the church so that full time ministers can be supported to provide pastoral care and oversight for our souls. Odd way to “rely on themselves” by building religious institutions.

My wife’s first cousin is an evangelical/Pentecostal fanatic. She attends a church where the preacher talks all about the enemy (Satan). Not only that, but the preacher also condones "confronting, fighting, and defeating the enemy (in addition to encouraging the purchase of take-home communion kits ).

Why is calling Satan our “enemy” problematic? He is our enemy. He is called the father of lies and the accuser of the brethren in Holy Scripture. We are told that the faithful " overcame him by the blood of the Lamb, and by the word of their testimony" in Revelations 12:11.

We are also told that we are involved in spiritual warfare. Paul says in Ephesians 6:12 “For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places.”

I tried putting a call into her to tell her that this sort of behavior should never be done by herself and that confronting Satan is not advisable.

Why is “confronting Satan” not advisable. Should Christians be afraid of him? We are told that we are “more than conquerors” (Romans 8:37) and that “the weapons of our warfare are not of the flesh but have divine power to destroy strongholds” (2 Corinthians 10:4). James tells us to “Resist the devil, and he will flee from you” (James 4:7).

We don’t need to blame Satan for everything, but neither should we fear “confronting” him or any other evil principalities and powers. We overcome him by the blood of Jesus and our testimony and we can rebuke him with the Word of God, as Jesus demonstrated in the wilderness.

 

[ltwin]

Let me begin by telling about my upbringing. I was raised in a very evangelical home. Many Evangelicals worship in very plain and near ugly churches. The one I was sent to was ultra plain. But personally many lived in macmansions. My parents always drove Caddilacs or Lincolns. Yes they built a mansion for themselves, while giving God a cinder block near shack.

And many evangelicals worship in beautiful churches. In any case, God doesn’t actually live in church buildings. The Church is the temple of God, and the Church is made of living stones-not brick and mortar. Where we meet is simply that–a meeting place and any place can be used as a place for worship, whether its a “cinder block near shack” or a Roman basilica.

 

[andrewstx]

And many evangelicals worship in beautiful churches. In any case, God doesn’t actually live in church buildings. The Church is the temple of God, and the Church is made of living stones-not brick and mortar. Where we meet is simply that–a meeting place and any place can be used as a place for worship, whether its a “cinder block near shack” or a Roman basilica.

I would say that God lives in churches because Jesus lives in tabernacle. But God does not live in tabernacles only.
You remind me of my parents who called churches church “church buildings.”

 

[ltwin]

I would say that God lives in churches because Jesus lives in tabernacle. But God does not live in tabernacles only.
You remind me of my parents who called churches church “church buildings.”

Well, as Stephan said before the High Priest, “the Most High does not dwell in houses made by hands” (Acts 7:48).

You remind me of my parents who called churches church “church buildings.”

I use both terms. “Church” and “church building.” I usually only use the latter when the context calls for specificity of language. The actual place inside the building set aside for congregational worship I call the “sanctuary.”

 

[Graceful_Lamb]

Sense of humor…handy thing to have my friend… No one said a word about MP…just a reference to something that you apparently are unfamiliar…no big deal…Did you ever read any of Tolkien? Just curious…
:ehh: Those of us who are converts or reverts can perhaps say that we feel that to be the case, but that’s subjective.

You can always check out My Testimony

I do have a good sense of humor. I have not read any of Tolkien’s books.

 

[Graceful_Lamb]

So do I. I always try to keep it simple. I try to remember that every person you meet will think, “Ok, so that is a Catholic/Episcopalian/Evangelical, etc.” Leave a good impression. An authentic one, so people can see what the Church really does in people, how Christ transforms us into something better. Make your faith seem desirable, a good.

 

[Graceful_Lamb]

Sense of humor…handy thing to have my friend… No one said a word about MP…just a reference to something that you apparently are unfamiliar…no big deal…Did you ever read any of Tolkien? Just curious…
:ehh: Those of us who are converts or reverts can perhaps say that we feel that to be the case, but that’s subjective.

You can always check out My Testimony

What is MP?

 

[Church_Militant]

I think this is what sounds strange to Evangelicals. Catholics claim their sacrament is physical flesh and blood, yet according to the Bible we must meet God in spirit. We know Him no longer after the flesh.

Incorrect… The Real Presence is very Biblical and a recurring miracle. I suggest The Eucharist IS Scriptural

We meet God on the inside, that is, in our spirit. A far better explanation of this can be found in a book called “The Practice of the Presence of God” by Brother Lawrence. It was actually written by a catholic priest who interviewed him over several occasions.

Read that a long time ago. … Not bad.

Can anyone be more in touch with God “on the inside” that to “eat my flesh and drink my blood” as Christ commanded in John 6:52?

No, Catholics and Orthodox, through the Sacrament of Eucharist, receive the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Christ.

Objectively, that is closer than symbolic reception of Communion.

Also objectively speaking, Christians have a greater understanding of God than say, Buddhists or Hindus.

Pretty decent description.

Just for the record, I don’t think anyone really, truly, fully understands the enormity of the Sacrament of Eucharist. We can believe to the extent of our abilities, but what mind can comprehend such a divine mystery?

But thankfully, we don’t need to fully understand how everything operates for God to work within and for us.

I agree. God is not that small…It’s the same as with any miracle. It can only be rationally accepted but then not comprehended in the way we would simple physical reality.

Thanks, z_0101, and Church Militant. I was just being silly, Graceful Lamb—no derailment, just an aside. And now I’m off to find my horses in a dark pasture then go to bed, so, “So long, and thanks for all the fish” for tonight.

Have the dolphins all left yet?

 

[MSSheBear]

Huh, I’ve been attending for almost 40years now (on and off 10 or so) and have never been approached/pressured to join anything. They did mention Wed night bible study at announcements, but that’s about it.

Seems as though I’m being told my feeling and experiences were “wrong”, when only answering the question through my experience.

I was involved with new or failing churches. I burned out doing childcare every Sunday. :imsorry: I shouldn’t have suggested that every Evangelical church was like that. I am still bitter about the way I was treated.:imsorry:

 

[commenter]

Well, as Stephan said before the High Priest, “the Most High does not dwell in houses made by hands” (Acts 7:48).

I use both terms. “Church” and “church building.” I usually only use the latter when the context calls for specificity of language. The actual place inside the building set aside for congregational worship I call the “sanctuary.”

The Catholic, sacramental understanding is that the “sanctuary” is the SANCTUARY not because people gather there, but because it normally includes the place where the Real Presence is. In other words, the real, essential sanctuary is the tabernacle. The building itself is not a sacrament; it, like the altar, has its own dignity, they are sacramentals, though not as important as the Blessed Sacrament.

I used to visit a pentecostal church often, boy can they preach. The congregation is prayerful and attentive. They referred to the area in front as the “altar”, they even had “altar calls”. But really, there is no altar. It’s kind of a stage (not meaning that in a disrespectful way). The name of the church included the word “tabernacle”. But they didn’t have anything like the tabernacle in the Bible, or what we know churches had in the early centuries. I knew some Catholics who contrasted that deeply prayerful, attentive congregation with the Catholic congregation, many of them drowsy, checking their watch; and some joined the Tabernacle.

But in my heart I knew the Church’s holiness is based on Christ, not on the particular bottoms on the pews this year, nor on the lively preaching, both of which come and go (and they did come and go), varying from year to year.

When I go to a church I look for the tabernacle, look for an actual altar, and look at the crucifix. Then I look to the confessional. The holiness of (God working through) those things is interconnected. It’s permanent, like Scripture.

 

[Church_Militant]

Sorry to interrupt, but Protestants will never get it. They really think Jesus was talking about a symbol when that couldn’t be farther from the truth.

Don’t know about that…I was among them for about 25 years and I got it on the way home and it’s one off the driving forces of my Catholic faith.

I think Catholics and Evangelicals speak totally different languages. The words each use and the allusions, memes hold different meanings or no meaning at all for the other. Evangelicals are in general more likely to “testify” or “witness” their own experiences because their culture is open to and expects it more than the Catholic culture. They are more likely to discount written prayers as truly holding any meaning for the speaker and have little experience with it themselves. Ritual is seen as smothering a relationship with God by putting it ahead of direct intercourse with God, or something that is done in lieu of a relationship with God.

There is a serious nomenclature problem, but that’s what dialog is all about.

Getting back to the OP and the linked blog, I would like to know what special gift the author of the blog has been given to discern that “our pews are packed with Catholics going through the motions”

? I certainly don’t make that ugly assumption about the people I see in church on Sunday. I don’t know their thoughts as they recite the confiteor, I don’t know how they feel or what they think when the receive the Eucharist. Nor would I make it about those attending another church whose practices seem odd or outlandish to me.Yeah…ya gotta wonder how some people are so able to mind read…:yup:

Agreed. I think Catholics socialize through ministries almost as much as Protestants, choir, Knights of Columbus, St. Paul de Vincent, food banks, Eucharistic ministries, Bible Groups, women’s groups - that is where the action is, certainly very little interaction at Mass. So, in the end, the Catholic is really under as much pressure as the Protestant to interact in ministry, although I agree it is easier to be left in peace if that is your preference.
…

The bottom line is the conversion is internal; Mass and coffee hour are supplements, whether your place of worship combines them or not.

Coffee, Wednesday night dinner, or after Mass breakfast are supplementary (but still tangible witness to our faith and fellowship), but the Mass…not at all. The Mass…The Eucharist, is the source and summit of our faith.

If the Catholic church is the truth, then why not leave it up to God? If it is all what the Catholics on this board proclaim it to be, why would there be a need to have a huge effort to teach and learn the Church?

Don’t you think that if the Catholic church is the truth, etc. that God will guide non-Catholics towards the Catholic church? Don’t you think that there would be no need for teaching, etc. if the Church is all what those who belong to it says it is?It’s called obedience. What precisely did Our Blessed Lord Jesus Christ command in the following passage?*** (Matthew 28) “[19] Go therefore and make disciples of all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and of the Son and of the Holy Spirit, [20] teaching them to observe all that I have commanded you; and lo, I am with you always, to the close of the age.” ***"

The classic basic example is, the forgiveness of sins. Non-Catholics do not see the need in going to confession and telling their sins to a priest. They all clamor the same song about only God can forgive sins and not “man”. Many the time you hear a non-Catholic or Protestant rail on about how “only God will judge them”. Such an expression is usually prefaced by some sort of sinful action on their part.]

Catholic Confession and Scriptures About Penance
[QUOTEAnother example is the communion of saints. Non-Catholics don’t stand for such a thing at all. They have no issue with asking other people to pray for them, but if you ask for the Blessed Mother to pray for you, then you’re tarnished in their small minded vision.
[/quote]Yep…The Intercession & Communion of Saints

 

[Church_Militant]

As for “pulling them in,” again, I don’t see why that needs to be done. If the Catholic church is the true church, etc., why not just leave it up to God? The church should speak for itself, if it is the truth, etc.

Wait…what? So you’re telling us that we should not “witness” or evangelize while n-Cs go freely ahead with theirs/ Why would your same thinking not apply to all other Christians who seek to be obedient to Christ in sharing our faith?

I have to say that one of the reason why I am hesitant to convert is because of a number of judgments made by a number Catholics on this board. I get the sense that some Catholics look down up those of us who are not Catholic. I don’t think that is part of what being Christian is about.

Look, you asked for answers…Catholic answers…to your questions about the Catholic faith. Why then do you take offense when Catholics share with you the multitude of reasons why we believe we are right and it is the true Christian faith?

The reality is that we simply point out the errors of the wide variety of n-C beliefs

Consider this very well stated response from Fr. Leslie Rumble many years ago.
It is most unkind of you to speak so sarcastically of other religions.
** **Inquirers put their religious theories before me, and if they are illogical I say so, giving my reasons for saying so. This is not sarcasm, above all since I respect the sincerity of those whose theories are mistaken. Nor is it unkind. If you saw a sick man taking, not the medicine prescribed by the doctor, but some other drink by mistake, would it be kindness to keep quiet just to spare him the confusion of realizing his mistake? Whilst love may excuse the man who makes a mistake, it cannot say that the mistake is not a mistake. I deny that truth is error, or that error is truth. But I make every allowance for those who mistake error for truth.

Either it seems that a number are very harsh against non-Catholic religions or the minute someone expresses even the slightest interest, then they are called to convert. I go to RC church with my RC husband. In another thread, I was called to convert, because I should be the same faith as my husband, etc. The more people try to say that I should convert is all the more that I’m not interested. If the Catholic church is the truth and the one true church, I don’t see why members need to try to get others to join. Again, the teachings of the church should be able to stand on their own, IMO.

Well would you think that we really believed in our faith if we didn’t believe that everyone should embrace the Catholic faith as true? I certainly would not…

As I said before…it’s a matter of obedience to Christ himself…

 

[Church_Militant]

What is MP?

You mentioned Monty Python…

I’m surprised you have not read The Hobbit & the Lord of the Rings trilogy. good stuff.

Did you know that he and C. S. Lewis were best friends and that it was Tolkien (a devout Catholic ) that influenced Lewis to become a Christian? Just FYI, okay?

On the thread topic though…

I still suspect that the answer to this question is as varied as the number of Evangelicals that we could pose it to.

 

[ltwin]

I used to visit a pentecostal church often, boy can they preach. The congregation is prayerful and attentive. They referred to the area in front as the “altar”, they even had “altar calls”. But really, there is no altar. It’s kind of a stage (not meaning that in a disrespectful way).

An altar is technically defined as a raised structure or platform on which religious worship and/or sacrifice is performed. So, a stage used as a place of prayer and religious worship would fit the definition of an altar.

However, we would go in further and say that anywhere can be an altar when we are in an attitude and posture of prayer. So, we can even speak of the family altar in terms of family worship at home.

The name of the church included the word “tabernacle”. But they didn’t have anything like the tabernacle in the Bible, or what we know churches had in the early centuries. I knew some Catholics who contrasted that deeply prayerful, attentive congregation with the Catholic congregation, many of them drowsy, checking their watch; and some joined the Tabernacle.

The Tabernacle in the Bible was essentially a mobile temple used by the Jews before the First Temple was constructed in Jerusalem. When Protestants use the word “Tabernacle” in their church names, they are essentially saying this is a place of worship. It’s not an etymological stretch by any means.

It’s not that different from when Jews refer to their synagogue as a “temple”. The synagogue is not the same thing as the Temple in Jerusalem, but both are places of worship.

 

[zaffiroborant]

An altar is technically defined as a raised structure or platform on which religious worship and/or sacrifice is performed. So, a stage used as a place of prayer and religious worship would fit the definition of an altar.

However, we would go in further and say that anywhere can be an altar when we are in an attitude and posture of prayer. So, we can even speak of the family altar in terms of family worship at home.

Some define “altar” as you do others don’t, I don’t my definition is more in line with Merriam-Webster and Google.

 

[Graceful_Lamb]

You mentioned Monty Python…

I’m surprised you have not read The Hobbit & the Lord of the Rings trilogy. good stuff.

Did you know that he and C. S. Lewis were best friends and that it was Tolkien (a devout Catholic ) that influenced Lewis to become a Christian? Just FYI, okay?

On the thread topic though…

I still suspect that the answer to this question is as varied as the number of Evangelicals that we could pose it to.

I tried watching LOTR, and I couldn’t finish watching it.

 

[zaffiroborant]

I tried watching LOTR, and I couldn’t finish watching it.

Why?

 

[Graceful_Lamb]

Wait…what? So you’re telling us that we should not “witness” or evangelize while n-Cs go freely ahead with theirs/ Why would your same thinking not apply to all other Christians who seek to be obedient to Christ in sharing our faith? Look, you asked for answers…Catholic answers…to your questions about the Catholic faith. Why then do you take offense when Catholics share with you the multitude of reasons why we believe we are right and it is the true Christian faith?

The reality is that we simply point out the errors of the wide variety of n-C beliefs

Consider this very well stated response from Fr. Leslie Rumble many years ago.
It is most unkind of you to speak so sarcastically of other religions.
** **Inquirers put their religious theories before me, and if they are illogical I say so, giving my reasons for saying so. This is not sarcasm, above all since I respect the sincerity of those whose theories are mistaken. Nor is it unkind. If you saw a sick man taking, not the medicine prescribed by the doctor, but some other drink by mistake, would it be kindness to keep quiet just to spare him the confusion of realizing his mistake? Whilst love may excuse the man who makes a mistake, it cannot say that the mistake is not a mistake. I deny that truth is error, or that error is truth. But I make every allowance for those who mistake error for truth.
Well would you think that we really believed in our faith if we didn’t believe that everyone should embrace the Catholic faith as true? I certainly would not…

As I said before…it’s a matter of obedience to Christ himself…

I don’t have a problem with the answers. It is the way that some people present their answers. Sometimes it can come across as condescending, patronizing, and holier-than-thou.