Why Is Catholicism So Unattractive to Evangelicals?

[Peter_J]

I don’t have a problem with saying a minister of the Gospel can pronounce forgiveness to the repentant, as a delegate of Christ. My only large concern with Catholic teaching here is the idea that confession to a priest is a requirement of forgiveness, unless one has perfect contrition, in regards to mortal sins.

I think a specific quote might help here.

I did a brief search and found “To confess one’s sins, receiving the sacrament of Reconciliation at least once each year.” which is from the Catechism. That doesn’t seem particularly helpful to this discussion. Some other search results just referred back to this website.

Anyhow, I could spend more time looking, but do you have a quote?

 

[rnmvrck]

Earlier this years, I also read from Genesis through Samuel and have had a difficult time trying to explain the seemingly cruel God of the Old Testament to myself:

Numbers 15:32-36: When the Israelites were in the wilderness, they found a man gathering sticks on the sabbath day. 33 Those who found him gathering sticks brought him to Moses, Aaron, and to the whole congregation. 34 They put him in custody, because it was not clear what should be done to him. 35 Then the Lord said to Moses, “The man shall be put to death; all the congregation shall stone him outside the camp.” 36 The whole congregation brought him outside the camp and stoned him to death, just as the Lord had commanded Moses.

1 Samuel 15:2-3: Thus says the Lord of hosts, ‘I will punish the Amalekites for what they did in opposing the Israelites when they came up out of Egypt. 3 Now go and attack Amalek, and utterly destroy all that they have; do not spare them, but kill both man and woman, child and infant, ox and sheep, camel and donkey.’”

The story of Numbers is about the Jewish people being constant complainers, lusting after the things they had in Egypt, questioning the anointing of Moses to lead the people, and so on. Those who broke the ten commandments were subject to death, and even when the wanderers first complained God killed many that camped on the perimeter with fire and Moses had to God to intervene. The book also says there were others among them and God knows that sin is very “contagious”. God used appropriate measures to ensure their compliance with the law.

God had the Israelites wipe out the Amalek because they were idol worshippers and because of Genesis 6 which was also another reason God wiped out the world with a flood. Remember that Noah was perfect in his genealogy and Satan plan to thwart the plan of God was to inhabit the land of milk and honey with the offspring of the angels and men in Genesis corrupting the genepool from which the messiah would come. If you remember, the spies came back and reported “Giants” in the land which is one of the characteristics of these offspring from Genesis as the Bible states that these offspring existed after the flood. David, when he went to slay Goliath, picked up “how many stones”? Five as the scripture says that Goliath had 5 other brothers.

An attribute of God is that He is unchangeable. The God of the old testament is the same God as the new testament. God does not differentiate between degrees of sin (mortal vs venial). Sin is sin, and sin means separation from God. Thank God, we are covered by the blood of Jesus, that we have accepted His free gift, and have repented from the sins of our old life, walking in His plan for us, so our names can be written in the Book.

Even now Satan tries to thwart the plan of God by extermination of the Jews and every century some tyrant has risen to try and do just that. For Jesus to come back, the Jews have to ask Him as a nation to come back. Both Jesus in the Gospels and Paul (in Romans 9-10-11) as well as old testament prophecies make this crystal clear. Why so many denominations believe that somehow the Church replaces Israel and inherits all the promises and covenants that God gave to the Jewish people (i.e., His first born) is a mystery to me. This is totally false and unscriptural doctrine and has led to narcissism and anti-Semitisms throughout the world. Make no mistake, Israel is in the land God gave them for a second time, and no nation or league of nations will take that from them. At the right time, their blindness will be lifted and they will seek Jesus.

 

[PRmerger]

On short…this is now called…“confession”…"It just say, “If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.”

And I am still seeking an answer as to how someone, that is, an apostle, could know whether to retain or forgive a sin…unless someone had confessed the sin to him and he could discern the confessor’s repentance or proclivity to continue to sin.

 

[AbideWithMe]

I think a specific quote might help here.

I did a brief search and found “To confess one’s sins, receiving the sacrament of Reconciliation at least once each year.” which is from the Catechism. That doesn’t seem particularly helpful to this discussion. Some other search results just referred back to this website.

Anyhow, I could spend more time looking, but do you have a quote?

I’m just passing through here right now and I’m not caught up on the thread, but if you’re asking what part of the Catechism I mean, I’ll take a guess from years-old memory and say I think it’s in the 1450’s—1453-ish? Could be 1543, or 1583, or …I’ll look it up after my work day.

Edit: 1451-1454 in the Catechism, though I’m still not sure if that’s what you meant by a quote.

 

[Porknpie]

Hi, thank you for your response. If my pastor has a completely different understanding of the passages in question, it would not mean anything to this discussion. Asked in the way it was and seen in the light of previous statements about how Protestants rely on their pastors to tell them what scripture means was not meant to be flattering or sincere in it’s asking…let’s all not play “I didn’t mean anything in asking the question” game…“Something” all right was behind the question, I’ve lurked too long here to pretend otherwise.

Your inquiry indeed may be honestly one of inquire…if the need to know and understand his view is crucial to this thread I’d be most happy to do so…but let’s not pretend, that’s neither truthful nor productive.

How “good” of you to remind me my pastor is not infallible, never said nor thought he was, but I appreciate the “heads up”.

Seeker,

My experience with my protestant friends is that they do rely on their pastor for scriptural exegesis. Their logic for doing so makes sense from their background.

But it is always fruitful in my talking with them, to compare what their pastor says to what the Church teaches. On many areas, there is common agreement but as we know, not always.

A good example is the power to forgive sins: Christ gives the apostles the power to forgiven sins or not. It’s reasonable to ask one’s pastor:

• if they believe that they have this power?
• Was it passed on through the ages?
• How was it passed on through the ages?
• Who today has that power?
• By what means do they attain it?
• If they have this power, do they use it?
• If they use it by NOT forgiving a person’s sin, what is the potential consequence for that person?
• Have they researched what the writings of the early Church on this subject?
• If yes, what did those earliest Christians say on this subject?

I truly believe that by comparing the pastor answer on the power to forgive sins, to the Catholic Answer, that Catholicism can be more attractive to some, at least more understood.

And that is a good thing.

And yes, I always find it interesting answers to the questions above. I learn every time.

And that is a good thing too.

 

[clem456]

There are too many contradictions in Christian and Jewish Scriptures for me to consider them all inerrant.

Nor do I believe that all Truth resides in any one religious tradition or its sacred books. If that were the case, it would seem terribly unjust to me. To give an example, as one book I have reminded me recently, the great Maya ruler K’inich Janaab’ Pakal ascended the throne of the city state of Palenque in the rain forests what is now Chiapas, Mexico in July 615 A.D. And of course, the Maya of this area were not Christians and practiced a polytheistic form of religion which had developed in that part of the world over thousands of years and they would not find out about Christianity until the Spaniards came there more than 877 years later. And the people in this part of the world had been cut off from the Old World for about 10,000 years or more. So why would God abandon these people there for hundreds and thousands of years with no knowledge of true religion and no knowledge of Christ if that is the only way to achieve salvation? Or maybe some of the Truth does reside in the religion which was practiced by the Maya which would mean that not all of the Truth resides in Christian Scripture. Maybe God is bigger and more complicated than what can fit in any one religious tradition and any one body of sacred texts.

There are contradictions in Scripture. End of story.
Scripture contradicts itself all over the place.
OK…

Where in your life is there a place where there are no contradictions? The issue is not “There there contradictions!!!” (as if observing this fact is an accusation demanding the satisfaction of justice).
The issue is, because we have contradictions, what are we to do with them?

Aren’t contradictions part of being human?

 

[Peter_J]

I’m just passing through here right now and I’m not caught up on the thread, but if you’re asking what part of the Catechism I mean, I’ll take a guess from years-old memory and say I think it’s in the 1450’s—1453-ish? Could be 1543, or 1583, or …I’ll look it up after my work day.

Edit: 1451-1454 in the Catechism, though I’m still not sure if that’s what you meant by a quote.

Yes, that’s perfect (so to speak). I’m not sure why I wasn’t able to find that (maybe I was being a little too high-tech, and should have just pulled up the Catechism and looked through its index).

1451 Among the penitent’s acts contrition occupies first place. Contrition is "sorrow of the soul and detestation for the sin committed, together with the resolution not to sin again."50

1452 When it arises from a love by which God is loved above all else, contrition is called “perfect” (contrition of charity). Such contrition remits venial sins; it also obtains forgiveness of mortal sins if it includes the firm resolution to have recourse to sacramental confession as soon as possible.51

1453 The contrition called “imperfect” (or “attrition”) is also a gift of God, a prompting of the Holy Spirit. It is born of the consideration of sin’s ugliness or the fear of eternal damnation and the other penalties threatening the sinner (contrition of fear). Such a stirring of conscience can initiate an interior process which, under the prompting of grace, will be brought to completion by sacramental absolution. By itself however, imperfect contrition cannot obtain the forgiveness of grave sins, but it disposes one to obtain forgiveness in the sacrament of Penance.52

 

[leekonghian]

Even though I’m an Evangelical Christian, I attended Mass on several occasions in Catholic Churches. The atmosphere inside a Catholic Church appeared more solemn and they tend to read from a book. The Eucharist appeared to be the main event, and non Catholics are not permitted to participate. In Protestant Churches, people tend to be more friendly and welcoming of visitors and there is more emphasis on teaching. In the Catholic Churches I attended, nobody cared who I was and nobody attempted to talk to me. Also, at the Catholic Churches, I saw people praying and bowing before statues. This greatly upset me, and I have rarely attended Catholic Churches since.

 

[clem456]

Even though I’m an Evangelical Christian, I attended Mass on several occasions in Catholic Churches. The atmosphere inside a Catholic Church appears more solemn and they tend to read from a book. The Eucharist appears to be the main event, and non Catholics are not permitted to participate. In Protestant Churches, people tend to be more friendly and welcoming of visitors and there is more emphasis on teaching. In the Catholic Churches I attended, nobody cares who I was and nobody attempted to talk to me. Also, at the Catholic Churches, I saw people praying and bowing before statues. This greatly upset me, and I have rarely attended Catholic Churches since.

Some of this is difference in emphasis. We have a sound theology on “statues”, not much different than the picture of your parents or children hanging on your wall.

The Eucharist is the source and summit of what we do at Mass, not the homily. Everything points to the altar. Other churches are teaching-centered.

The cold reception you received is very sad. I am sorry you did not feel welcome. There is no excuse.

 

[SyroMalankara]

The Eucharist appeared to be the main event, and non Catholics are not permitted to participate.

Anyone can participate in everything except receiving Eucharist.

In Protestant Churches, people tend to be more friendly and welcoming of visitors and there is more emphasis on teaching.

I’ve been to cold protestant churches and warm Catholic churches. It depends on the individual parish and community.

In the Catholic Churches I attended, nobody cared who I was and nobody attempted to talk to me.

Did you try others? Also, Catholics tend to not talk within the Church out of respect for the space and the tabernacle which contains the Body of Christ.

Also, at the Catholic Churches, I saw people praying and bowing before statues. This greatly upset me, and I have rarely attended Catholic Churches since.

Why did it upset you?

 

[JustaServant]

Even though I’m an Evangelical Christian, I attended Mass on several occasions in Catholic Churches. The atmosphere inside a Catholic Church appeared more solemn and they tend to read from a book. The Eucharist appeared to be the main event, and non Catholics are not permitted to participate. In Protestant Churches, people tend to be more friendly and welcoming of visitors and there is more emphasis on teaching. In the Catholic Churches I attended, nobody cared who I was and nobody attempted to talk to me. Also, at the Catholic Churches, I saw people praying and bowing before statues. This greatly upset me, and I have rarely attended Catholic Churches since.

sigh
In lieu of using the search engine to dig up an old response to this, I’ll just answer it…again.
Catholic (as well as Episcopal and Orthodox) sanctuaries are places of worship, not social gathering places. Because, the Lord is there in the Presence of the Eucharist.
The “book” that is read is called the “liturgy”, which includes extensive passages from the Bible. I might add there is more Bible read in the Catholic Church than in churches with the word “Bible” on their placard.
The atmosphere is “A solemn”, not “solemn”. Meaning what is going on is of a serious nature.
The Eucharist IS the main event, and no, non-Catholics not permitted to partake. Would you go into somebody else’s house, sit at their dinner table and demand to be fed?
Nobody cared to talk to you? Did you make any attempt to talk to people? I’ve been in Baptist churches far more cold.

 

[leekonghian]

I’m sure most people will notice that there are almost no icons and statues in Protestant Churches, whereas in Catholic and Orthodox Churches there are lots of icons and statues for people to pray to. Maybe this might be due to the fact that Protestants are being taught not to pray to images or have them in their Churches for fear of idolatry.

 

[JustaServant]

Also, at the Catholic Churches, I saw people praying and bowing before statues.

No you didn’t.

 

[clem456]

sigh
In lieu of using the search engine to dig up an old response to this, I’ll just answer it…again.
Catholic (as well as Episcopal and Orthodox) sanctuaries are places of worship, not social gathering places. Because, the Lord is there in the Presence of the Eucharist.
The “book” that is read is called the “liturgy”, which includes extensive passages from the Bible. I might add there is more Bible read in the Catholic Church than in churches with the word “Bible” on their placard.
The atmosphere is “A solemn”, not “solemn”. Meaning what is going on is of a serious nature.
The Eucharist IS the main event, and no, non-Catholics not permitted to partake. Would you go into somebody else’s house, sit at their dinner table and demand to be fed?
Nobody cared to talk to you? Did you make any attempt to talk to people? I’ve been in Baptist churches far more cold.

That’s a nice statement of Catholic belief, but it doesn’t address the person.
This person experienced a cold neglectful Church.
Do you demand that those visiting your home take it upon themselves to go about introducing themselves?We wouldn’t treat someone who came to our home this way, why would we treat someone who came to Mass looking for Jesus with indifference?

And don’t tell me it’s because the Catholic sanctuary is a sacred silent space. It is, but that is not an excuse.
The fact is, a person was not welcomed in the real presence of Christ. There is no excuse.

 

[Wannano]

No you didn’t.

Ok, so help me out. I have occasion to be in Catholic services quite frequently and have seen people bowing with lips moving silently in front of statues. So what are they doing?

 

[SyroMalankara]

Ok, so help me out. I have occasion to be in Catholic services quite frequently and have seen people bowing with lips moving silently in front of statues. So what are they doing?

They are requesting prayers to God from the person that the statue represents. Kind of like if you had a picture of your great grandpa and said “I’ll see you when I get there”…

 

[SyroMalankara]

I’m sure most people will notice that there are almost no icons and statues in Protestant Churches, whereas in Catholic and Orthodox Churches there are lots of icons and statues for people to pray to. Maybe this might be due to the fact that Protestants are being taught not to pray to images or have them in their Churches for fear of idolatry.

It’s a silly fear isn’t it? I’d like being afraid to have family photos out of fear you might commit idolatry, or being afraid you’d accidentally ask someone to pray for you… eek!

 

[Wannano]

They are requesting prayers to God from the person that the statue represents. Kind of like if you had a picture of your great grandpa and said “I’ll see you when I get there”…

So they are asking the person represented by the statue to pray to God. Is it usually on behalf of the person bowing in front of the statue? Like favors or help for that person?

 

[SyroMalankara]

So they are asking the person represented by the statue to pray to God. Is it usually on behalf of the person bowing in front of the statue? Like favors or help for that person?

No, like standing in front of the St. Joseph statue, “my cancer has come back, St. Joseph, foster father of Jesus, pray for me to the Lord our God.”

 

[Peter_J]

Even though I’m an Evangelical Christian, I attended Mass on several occasions in Catholic Churches. The atmosphere inside a Catholic Church appeared more solemn and they tend to read from a book. The Eucharist appeared to be the main event, and non Catholics are not permitted to participate. In Protestant Churches, people tend to be more friendly and welcoming of visitors and there is more emphasis on teaching. In the Catholic Churches I attended, nobody cared who I was and nobody attempted to talk to me. Also, at the Catholic Churches, I saw people praying and bowing before statues. This greatly upset me, and I have rarely attended Catholic Churches since.

You would expect to find the “low” churchman genuflecting and crossing himself lest the weak conscience of his “high” brother should be moved to irreverence, and the “high” one refraining from these exercises lest he should betray his “low” brother into idolatry.

• The Screwtape Letters