Why Is Catholicism So Unattractive to Evangelicals?

[Reuben_J]

Most Protestant and evangelical churches actually “call” their own pastors. They aren’t appointed from above by a bishop, for example, as a Catholic priest is. In my own Lutheran church we recently called a new pastor. He was first interviewed by a call committee and then the members of the congregation voted to call him. Pastors in most Protestant and evangelical churches can also be fired by their congregations and some of them are.

As for the Glorious Revolution, James II wanted to be an absolute monarch like his cousin Louis XIV of France and tried to impose his will without the support of parliament and the English people. Almost no one nowadays still believes in the authority of absolute monarchs.

On what authority they ‘call’ their pastor? Can this pastor administer the Sacraments?

 

[St_Pancake]

Well, if you were invited, or it was an open house, and you were told NOT to partake of the food that others are eating in front of you, yes, it would appear to be extremely rude.

Would it be rude to keep you from participating if the “food” had peanuts in it and you had a peanut allergy?

Saint Paul warned against partaking unworthily. As a non Catholic, the Church can’t be sure that you are properly trained in whether or not you are partaking unworthily and is protecting you from harm. Call it a spiritual allergy.

 

[BernadetteM]

Not a great analogy however. I mean a Catholic mass is not an “open house” nor are all invited to partake in the Eucharist. Those that aren’t Catholic who are attending a Catholic mass are invited to observe and in a limited way participate by watching/listening/responding, as say you can at say a concert. But that doesn’t mean you’re invited to come up on stage and jam with the band.

Some churches do allow you to, my own among them and possibly your own depending on where you are situated as an Anglican. In fact my church encourages you to do so. But that doesn’t mean our rules should apply to another branch of the Christian family who have very long standing and clearly stated rules to the contrary.

I was an Episcopalian from birth and baptized until I converted. It has been many years and my last few years in TEC were as an Anglo Catholic. Before this I belonged to both a low church and a high church, neither allowed anyone who was not a confirmed member of the Anglican Communion to receive Communion. I do know that TEC has changed its beliefs over the years and now has open Communion. I even recall a few years back when they allowed a dog to receive their Communion.

As far as Lutherans go, at least the ones I know in LCMS they also have closed Communion and if the Pastor doesn’t know you, you must let him know before service who you are and which Lutheran synod you belong to.

God Bless,

Bernadette

 

[ComplineSanFran]

Would it be rude to keep you from participating if the “food” had peanuts in it and you had a peanut allergy?
.

But that would be up to you to say ‘No thank you’, wouldn’t it?

 

[ComplineSanFran]

I was an Episcopalian from birth and baptized until I converted. It has been many years and my last few years in TEC were as an Anglo Catholic. Before this I belonged to both a low church and a high church, neither allowed anyone who was not a confirmed member of the Anglican Communion to receive Communion. I do know that TEC has changed its beliefs over the years and now has open Communion. I even recall a few years back when they allowed a dog to receive their Communion.

As far as Lutherans go, at least the ones I know in LCMS they also have closed Communion and if the Pastor doesn’t know you, you must let him know before service who you are and which Lutheran synod you belong to.

God Bless,

Bernadette

Yes, things have changed in the Episcopal Church (as well as others). There are definitely two strains of practice here.

 

[Della]

Most Protestant and evangelical churches actually “call” their own pastors. They aren’t appointed from above by a bishop, for example, as a Catholic priest is. In my own Lutheran church we recently called a new pastor. He was first interviewed by a call committee and then the members of the congregation voted to call him. Pastors in most Protestant and evangelical churches can also be fired by their congregations and some of them are.

Of course, that doesn’t guarantee that any parish will get the best man for the position, for we need people who will do what is best for us not simply what we want from them. Not that your system doesn’t give you good leaders, but it’s not without its flaws.

Catholics do not have to accept a priest if he is unsuited to the parish. That is the bishop’s decision, but most bishops listen to their parishes’ needs. Besides, our priests rotate through parishes. A senior pastor spends about nine years at any given parish while associate pastors stay for three and then are rotated out. Parishes run by religious orders vary, however.

As for the Glorious Revolution, James II wanted to be an absolute monarch like his cousin Louis XIV of France and tried to impose his will without the support of parliament and the English people. Almost no one nowadays still believes in the authority of absolute monarchs.

Well, that’s just politics, then isn’t it?

 

[Reuben_J]

Not a great analogy however. I mean a Catholic mass is not an “open house” nor are all invited to partake in the Eucharist. Those that aren’t Catholic who are attending a Catholic mass are invited to observe and in a limited way participate by watching/listening/responding, as say you can at say a concert. But that doesn’t mean you’re invited to come up on stage and jam with the band.

They can pray though rather than watching the choir which definitely sucks. But pray they always can. I don’t know about Protestant mass, but Catholic mass is a time for prayers and worship regardless whether one receives the Holy Communion or not, which is not for everybody including Catholics unless ones satisfies its requirement.

 

[Reuben_J]

Of course, that doesn’t guarantee that any parish will get the best man for the position, for we need people who will do what is best for us not simply what we want from them. Not that your system doesn’t give you good leaders, but it’s not without its flaws.

On the positive side, at least they can get one by popular demand unlike in Catholic parishes where we would be stuck with a priest sent to us. Just imagine getting stuck with a priest and having not much to say about it.

 

[spedteacherita]

On what authority they ‘call’ their pastor? Can this pastor administer the Sacraments?

Hi, Reuben.

The “authority” comes from the Holy Spirit. The call committee spends time praying, visiting, and seeking knowledge if the person is right for the congregation - For LCMS pastors, it’s important that the one being considered show that he follows the Confessions. If a pastor has graduated from one of our seminaries and has been ordained he can administer the Sacraments.

Hope that helps,

Rita

 

[Reuben_J]

Hi, Reuben.

The “authority” comes from the Holy Spirit. The call committee spends time praying, visiting, and seeking knowledge if the person is right for the congregation - For LCMS pastors, it’s important that the one being considered show that he follows the Confessions. If a pastor has graduated from one of our seminaries and has been ordained he can administer the Sacraments.

Hope that helps,

Rita

Cool. Nothing can beat a time of prayers.

Does he has to attend a series of interview or that he does not have to apply for the job but being appointed?

 

[Della]

On the positive side, at least they can get one by popular demand unlike in Catholic parishes where we would be stuck with a priest sent to us. Just imagine getting stuck with a priest and having not much to say about it.

I don’t have to imagine it, it happened at my parish. He didn’t last long, though, thanks be. The bishop follows the progress of the priests in his diocese. If a parish needs someone else, he can replace the pastor. That’s what happened at our parish, and now it is flourishing where it had dwindled way down in attendance and enthusiasm.

 

[Reuben_J]

I don’t have to imagine it, it happened at my parish. He didn’t last long, though, thanks be. The bishop follows the progress of the priests in his diocese. If a parish needs someone else, he can replace the pastor. That’s what happened at our parish, and now it is flourishing where it had dwindled way down in attendance and enthusiasm.

Good for your parish. Really. I know a neighboring parish that got stuck with a priest for nearly some eight years before a reshuffle. This priest would give an one hour long homilies and when the parishioners complained that being too long, he would make it even longer to spite them. Some of the parishioners just could not stand him, they went to mass to our cathedral. The Archbishop did not want to transfer him out because nobody want this particular priest and if any news of transfer being leaked out, the intended parish would send their petition to appeal the decision. He has since been transferred in an abrupt reshuffle without giving time for anybody to appeal.

 

[spedteacherita]

Cool. Nothing can beat a time of prayers.

Does he has to attend a series of interview or that he does not have to apply for the job but being appointed?

Depends on the church, I think. I was a Lutheran teacher for about 7 years and I was “called” to 2 churches without having an interview. Maybe Jon or Don can clarify how the churches call pastors now.

But, as I stated before, it’s done by praying for the Holy Spirit’s guidance by both sides. I forgot to include that the Pastor who is presented with a call takes time to listen and see if that is where he should go.

Rita

 

[Millie123]

But that would be up to you to say ‘No thank you’, wouldn’t it?

I don’t think it’s rude. I went to a wedding party once where the bride a groom opened champagne that they shared amongst themselves, and as a gift, members of their immediate wedding party. I most certainly didn’t demand to also partake in their champagne…that would have been rude and I didn’t feel jaded by it.

 

[Della]

Good for your parish. Really. I know a neighboring parish that got stuck with a priest for nearly some eight years before a reshuffle. This priest would give an one hour long homilies and when the parishioners complained that being too long, he would make it even longer to spite them. Some of the parishioners just could not stand him, they went to mass to our cathedral. The Archbishop did not want to transfer him out because nobody want this particular priest and if any news of transfer being leaked out, the intended parish would send their petition to appeal the decision. He has since been transferred in an abrupt reshuffle without giving time for anybody to appeal.

I was tempted to laugh at such a dilemma, but really, it isn’t funny, is it? It simply shows that even bishops can be afraid to “sit on” his priests when they need it. He should put the man on hiatus until he learns to deal with people in love. At least that’s how I see the situation without knowing more about it. Jesus never guaranteed our pastors would fit hand-in-glove, and sometimes we have to put up with such trials. I can see how people would desert his parish. though. Many deserted ours until our priest was moved on, as well.

 

[Reuben_J]

Depends on the church, I think. I was a Lutheran teacher for about 7 years and I was “called” to 2 churches without having an interview. Maybe Jon or Don can clarify how the churches call pastors now.

But, as I stated before, it’s done by praying for the Holy Spirit’s guidance by both sides. I forgot to include that the Pastor who is presented with a call takes time to listen and see if that is where he should go.

Rita

Personally I agree on the second para, Rita. It is important that the pastor-elect needs to discern whether it is his calling (about being a pastor).

I know we do it differently but in Catholicism this is an important aspect of priesthood - a calling. A seminarian would be asked to take his time in discerning his calling to the priesthood. It would not be unusual for him to take time off from the seminary or even taking up secular job to discern whats his vocation calling really is. But once graduated and ordained by the Bishop, the parish where he would be sent to have no say at all. They just do not have a choice but have to accept whoever is being posted to them. Definitely not by popular demand. It is not a democracy alright.

 

[Peter_J]

Thanks for clarifying, Clem456. Otherwise, I was beginning to think that the implication by Peter J was that the Eucharist is an excuse for not being nice and welcoming to people,

I think Hahn’s friend was using the Eucharist is an excuse for not doing … well, he didn’t mention social activities or friendliness specifically, but you get the idea.

Surely, one person (even a Catholic) saying something doesn’t make it right, does it? I’m guessing, that as a Catholic, I have to put up with – roughly – the same number of annoying and frustrating things from fellow Catholics as you do from fellow Evangelicals.

 

[Thorolfr]

Catholics do not have to accept a priest if he is unsuited to the parish. That is the bishop’s decision, but most bishops listen to their parishes’ needs. Besides, our priests rotate through parishes. A senior pastor spends about nine years at any given parish while associate pastors stay for three and then are rotated out. Parishes run by religious orders vary, however.

There was a case recently where a new priest at Star of the Sea Catholic church in San Francisco decided that he would no longer allow female altar servers which caused a big uproar in the congregation:

A Catholic priest, new to San Francisco and no stranger to controversy, has banned girls from acting as altar servers at Mass, a decision that sets his parish apart from all others in the archdiocese.
The Rev. Joseph Illo, pastor at Star of the Sea Church since August, said he believes there is an “intrinsic connection” between the priesthood and serving at the altar — and because women can’t be priests, it makes sense to have only altar boys.
“Maybe the most important thing is that it prepares boys to consider the priesthood,” he said.

The Richmond District parish is now the only one in the Archdiocese of San Francisco that will exclude girls from serving at the altar. Such a decision is “a pastor’s call,” said archdiocese spokesman Chris Lyford.

sfgate.com/bayarea/article/S-F-Catholic-Church-priest-bans-girls-as-altar-6041400.php

If a pastor at a Protestant church did that kind of thing against the will of his congregation, he’d be fired.

 

[St_Pancake]

There was a case recently where a new priest at Star of the Sea Catholic church in San Francisco decided that he would no longer allow female altar servers which caused a big uproar in the congregation:

sfgate.com/bayarea/article/S-F-Catholic-Church-priest-bans-girls-as-altar-6041400.php

If a pastor at a Protestant church did that kind of thing against the will of his congregation, he’d be fired.

While I don’t have any opinion on female or male alter servers, I would be far from proud to be in a church where your last statement is true. Changing to the “will of the congregation” has led to perverse decisions in different denominations.

 

[Peter_J]

There was a case recently where a new priest at Star of the Sea Catholic church in San Francisco decided that he would no longer allow female altar servers which caused a big uproar in the congregation:

A Catholic priest, new to San Francisco and no stranger to controversy, has banned girls from acting as altar servers at Mass, a decision that sets his parish apart from all others in the archdiocese.
The Rev. Joseph Illo, pastor at Star of the Sea Church since August, said he believes there is an “intrinsic connection” between the priesthood and serving at the altar — and because women can’t be priests, it makes sense to have only altar boys.
“Maybe the most important thing is that it prepares boys to consider the priesthood,” he said.

That last statement is highly ambiguous: one must question whether Lyford is making a statement specifically about the Archdiocese of San Francisco or a universal claim.

Having said, this situation sounds quite unusual to me. I’ve never heard of a priest coming in and making that change just like that. (Though I’m guessing there have been numerous cases where a new priest came to a parish that didn’t have female altar servers and reversed that policy.)