Why is Christianity right and Islam wrong?

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As for God and his essence not fitting into creation, I am confused. Bahai deny Christ could be God because a human being cannot handle divinity. Are you saying we can fit God in his pure essence, that which he is into creation? Well your not gnostic anymore if thats the case.
Ignatian,
. The best answer for this is the following:

. "Know thou of a certainty that the Unseen can in no wise incarnate His Essence and reveal it unto men. He is, and hath ever been, immensely exalted beyond all that can either be recounted or perceived. From His retreat of glory His voice is ever proclaiming:

. “Verily, I am God; there is none other God besides Me, the All-Knowing, the All-Wise. I have manifested Myself unto men, and have sent down Him Who is the Day Spring of the signs of My Revelation. Through Him I have caused all creation to testify that there is none other God except Him, the Incomparable, the All-Informed, the All-Wise.”

. He Who is everlastingly hidden from the eyes of men can never be known except through His Manifestation, and His Manifestation can adduce no greater proof of the truth of His Mission than the proof of His own Person."
 
Ignatian,
. The best answer for this is the following:

. "Know thou of a certainty that the Unseen can in no wise incarnate His Essence and reveal it unto men. He is, and hath ever been, immensely exalted beyond all that can either be recounted or perceived. From His retreat of glory His voice is ever proclaiming:

. “Verily, I am God; there is none other God besides Me, the All-Knowing, the All-Wise. I have manifested Myself unto men, and have sent down Him Who is the Day Spring of the signs of My Revelation. Through Him I have caused all creation to testify that there is none other God except Him, the Incomparable, the All-Informed, the All-Wise.”

. He Who is everlastingly hidden from the eyes of men can never be known except through His Manifestation, and His Manifestation can adduce no greater proof of the truth of His Mission than the proof of His own Person."
So you agree then God cannot fit his actual essence, that whom God is into creation? Why did you dissagree with me before? For the sake of it?
 
So you agree then God cannot fit his actual essence, that whom God is into creation? Why did you disagree with me before? For the sake of it?
Show me the post, Ignatian, to which you are referring.

You have a consistent pattern, my friend, of distorting whatever we may say to assert an agenda in an attempt to entrap us with some kind of contradiction which is purely of your own making.

It is time to examine your motives and confront something within your own self, in my humble opinion, sir.
 
Show me the post, Ignatian, to which you are referring.

You have a consistent pattern, my friend, of distorting whatever we may say to assert an agenda in an attempt to entrap us with some kind of contradiction which is purely of your own making.

It is time to examine your motives and confront something within your own self, in my humble opinion, sir.
Can you explain why God’s essence cannot fit into the world? Nope, yet you believe in it just the same. Me.

Ummmm, I don’t believe in any of those things or at least am humble enough to not assert that I do, so no need for explanation. You
 
Can you explain why God’s essence cannot fit into the world? Nope, yet you believe in it just the same. Me.
Same reason you can’t put the Pacific ocean in a thimble…

You might put a few drops in there and smell the salty air coming from it, however.
 
Servant when someone admits ignorance. it is curtesy not to demand an explanation. When someone admits they cannot answer a specific question, leave it be.
My apologies Ignatian. My intention is not to belittle or to be discourteous. My intention is to defend a religion which is being unwarrantingly attacked.

I genuinely believe that there is a HUGE amount to learn from the Quran. Muhammad revers Christ immensely.
I believe that in an act of one-upmanship Christianity may be guilty of trying to rever Christ beyond what He actually was in order to “win the war” if you like.
Bahai may like to answer everything (and be subsequently proved fools) but I don’t.
This is a bit harsh friend. I don’t believe I have ever been called a fool, except for in CAF. Baha’is are not here to win battles, just sprinkle a few drops of love so that those being belittled may be defended, those being downtrodden may be empowered.
I told you what beggetton in the Christian context does not mean. That is enough to establish my point. It does not mean in Christianity that God has a female spirit consort like in mormonism. It is something more profound.
Would you please mind re-phrasing what your point is? I am unable to understand…my shortcoming, I assure you 🙂
But you don’t believe God is simple? Are there parts to your God? Can you cut a piece of God up? Divide him? That is you can take a part of him and then say I have 1% of what God is? Divine simplicity is a standard doctrine of God that says he is not complex, like we are. That is we are not composed of a simple essence, we are complex, even in the soul I would argue when compared to God who is one.
Anything I associate with my belief in “what God is” is NOT God 🙂
God is beyond definition, and human descriptions. You should know that. You are well enough read to get a full understanding of that. So much more to assign “simplicity” onto God. God is not simple, nor is He complex. He is and He isnt everything at the same time, all-encompassing and eternally separate at the same time…who knows but God?
As for God and his essence not fitting into creation, I am confused. Bahai deny Christ could be God because a human being cannot handle divinity. Are you saying we can fit God in his pure essence, that which he is into creation? Well your not gnostic anymore if thats the case.
Again, God’s essence? I cannot comment 🙂
 
Divine simplicity is to speak about how God is essentially one. What does it mean for God to be one? Can the one God be divided? Are there many components that form to make the one God? Are there some sort of divine arteries, coming together to match a divine heart, linking to the divine brain? It essentially means that god is not composed in parts, there is not a single thing that can be isolated from God, he is not a composite of multiple essences, and rather he is but one essence. I do not expound on the infinite God much more than this, nor do I define this unknowable simpleness beyond this, but I am convinced of it as a right philosophical understanding of God within Christianity. This does not elimate God being beyond creation, rather in fact it goes to show since we are so complex, composed of hundreds of billions of trillions of atoms and etc how complex we are from the divine. That being said, I don’t believe your last statement makes any sense, God is not a contradiction.

As for God’s essence I mean that which is God. God exists therefore he is something rather than nothing, therefore God’s essence. An unknowable essence which transcends all reality and finite understanding but an existent essence nonetheless. If you deny your God essence that’s good, you’ve become an atheist.

You have however distracted from the central topic for long enough I think. Was Muhammad right in the quran when he chides the Christians and jews for calling themselves sons of God? Or when he chides the idea of Jesus being a son of God. He says that in order to have children, to beget, he needs a consort and this is simply not the understanding of the Christians or jews in regards to their relationship between God and the specific relation between the father and the son. This to me convinces me Muhammad was wrong.

Although I think I can make a stronger argument which I have had no satisfactory answer for.
 
Could look at it in a simplistic light?

Christians Worship God, the One they call the One and Only God.

Muslims Worship God, the One they call the One and Only God.

Both beleive in One God.

So who is making the division, who is deciding one is right and one is wrong?

From what I see it is Man! Based on His current understanding! Well IMHO this seems flawed reasoning and doomed to failure considering how little we are and know.

I know that the Muslims accept Christ as a Messenger from God that gives them a unity with Christianity.

What does a thread named like this do to foster a harmonious relationship with fellow believers in God?

Years and years of making Ones God/Faith Better then another has not worked, why not try unity of thought. If it does not work we could always got back to Exclusivity! 😉

Regards Tony
 
Could look at it in a simplistic light?

Christians Worship God, the One they call the One and Only God.

Muslims Worship God, the One they call the One and Only God.

Both beleive in One God.

So who is making the division, who is deciding one is right and one is wrong?

From what I see it is Man! Based on His current understanding! Well IMHO this seems flawed reasoning and doomed to failure considering how little we are and know.

I know that the Muslims accept Christ as a Messenger from God that gives them a unity with Christianity.

What does a thread named like this do to foster a harmonious relationship with fellow believers in God?

Years and years of making Ones God/Faith Better then another has not worked, why not try unity of thought. If it does not work we could always got back to Exclusivity! 😉

Regards Tony
Tony, we are told by Christ that he is God, we have been taught by the church, the apostles that Christ established that he is God. You want to attribute division to men, well of course men are to blame. But no one can escape their convictions, we cannot agree simply for the sake of agreeing, we will either live or die for what we believe to be true and Christians and muslims simply contradict each other.

Unity without the foundation of truth is a false unity and that sort of unity (like which the bahai promote) is one we should all rather die to than join.
 
Tony, we are told by Christ that he is God, we have been taught by the church, the apostles that Christ established that he is God. You want to attribute division to men, well of course men are to blame. But no one can escape their convictions, we cannot agree simply for the sake of agreeing, we will either live or die for what we believe to be true and Christians and muslims simply contradict each other.

Unity without the foundation of truth is a false unity and that sort of unity (like which the bahai promote) is one we should all rather die to than join.
Dear IgnatianPhilo

I am only asking that we Love God together, you do it your way, I will do it my way.

If you think “never the twain shall meet”. Then that is your right. But the good thing is you do not have to die for your Faith, these days the word is mightier than the sword! It appears we have reached the end of our Words 😉

Regards Tony
 
What makes Christianity more reasonable. Why is Islam wrong? What are the best arguments against Islam?
I know very little about Islam but I once heard from an evangelical Christian that there are basic factual errors and a radical revisionist understanding of scripture that is part of the mainstream Islamic canon. For example, the prophet Mohammed thought that the Blessed Virgin Mary was part of the Trinity and that Jewish scribes had adulterated scripture sometime during the Babylonian exile to claim that Ishmael was Abraham’s first born and not Isaac, as Jews and Christians believe.

I would just like to say, however, that I admire many aspects of Islamic faith particularly their commitment to obedience and humility before God and the beautiful language they have for expressing their relationship with the Almighty. Cf.: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_God_in_Islam
 
I know very little about Islam but I once heard from an evangelical Christian that there are basic factual errors and a radical revisionist understanding of scripture that is part of the mainstream Islamic canon. For example, the prophet Mohammed thought that the Blessed Virgin Mary was part of the Trinity and that Jewish scribes had adulterated scripture sometime during the Babylonian exile to claim that Ishmael was Abraham’s first born and not Isaac, as Jews and Christians believe.

I would just like to say, however, that I admire many aspects of Islamic faith particularly their commitment to obedience and humility before God and the beautiful language they have for expressing their relationship with the Almighty. Cf.: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Names_of_God_in_Islam
I would then ask why not find out the Truth for yourself? 😉

The “what your heard” may not be the Truth. You have a very good outlook to find out, here is one link that talks about “Jesus and The Virgin Mary in Islam”.

quranandscience.com/discover-islam/embracing-islam/quran-on-jesus/169-jesus-and-the-virgin-mary-in-islam.html

God Bless - Regards Tony
 
Was Muhammad right in the quran when he chides the Christians and jews for calling themselves sons of God? Or when he chides the idea of Jesus being a son of God. He says that in order to have children, to beget, he needs a consort and this is simply not the understanding of the Christians or jews in regards to their relationship between God and the specific relation between the father and the son. This to me convinces me Muhammad was wrong.

Although I think I can make a stronger argument which I have had no satisfactory answer for.
Ignatian,
. God created Adam without “begetting”, right? He need only say “Be, and it is”

. God can create without having a consort, without begetting.
 
Dear IgnatianPhilo

I am only asking that we Love God together, you do it your way, I will do it my way.

If you think “never the twain shall meet”. Then that is your right. But the good thing is you do not have to die for your Faith, these days the word is mightier than the sword! It appears we have reached the end of our Words 😉

Regards Tony
You asked for unity, not love. you tried to show we all agree with each other in the end but its just our selfishness that causes division. You were wrong and cannot simply now say we need to love each other. That goes without saying. That exists here in the west believe it or not but not in the islamic world. Go tell the people who really need to hear a message of tolerance.
 
Ignatian,
. God created Adam without “begetting”, right? He need only say “Be, and it is”

. God can create without having a consort, without begetting.
The quran doesn’t say he can create without a consort, it says he cannot have a son without a consort. Read please.
 
The quran doesn’t say he can create without a consort, it says he cannot have a son without a consort. Read please.
Interesting…👍

The Qur’an is also pretty vague in and of itself. Sometimes I get the feeling the writer pulls at straws;)

MJ
 
The quran doesn’t say he can create without a consort, it says he cannot have a son without a consort. Read please.
Such was Jesus, the son of Mary. That is the whole truth, which they still doubt. God forbid that He Himself should beget a son! When He decrees a thing He need only say: ‘Be,’ and it is.
—Qur’an 19:35

If God does not “literally” need to have a wife in order to produce offspring like a son (and Christianity vouches that this is true), then why is the word “beget” even used in Christianity?
 
I know very little about Islam but I once heard from an evangelical Christian that there are basic factual errors and a radical revisionist understanding of scripture that is part of the mainstream Islamic canon. For example, the prophet Mohammed thought that the Blessed Virgin Mary was part of the Trinity and that Jewish scribes had adulterated scripture sometime during the Babylonian exile to claim that Ishmael was Abraham’s first born and not Isaac, as Jews and Christians believe.
Walrus,

. There were a few claims about this or that, some simply rumors, others were deliberate fabrications, surrounding the Prophet of Islam, for various purposes. It is hard to know the origin of some of it and what the facts are, even within the traditions of some of the hadiths, let alone those who were outwardly opposed to the Islamic movement.

. I’m not a Muslim, but have done some reading on it, and as far as the “corruption of the text” issues, Baha’u’llah explains that this refers not to adulterating the Writings of the Old Testament, but changing their obvious meaning for unscrupulous purposes in a few isolated cases.

. As to Ishmael being the first born:

Genesis 16:16 "Abraham was eighty-six years old when Hagar bore him Ishmael. Genesis 21 in excerpts: 5 Abraham was a hundred years old when his son Isaac was born to him. and the text continues: 8 The child grew and was weaned, and on the day Isaac was weaned Abraham held a great feast.

. There is disagreement between Muslims and Jews as to who was being offered as the sacrifice. Muslims claim that it was Ishmael, although the Quran does not say. As Ishmael was indeed the firstborn, it may be for that reason this is held to be true.

Ishmael, known as Isma’il in Arabic (Arabic: إسماعيل Ismā’īl) and Dhabih Ullah, is the figure known in Judaism, Christianity, and Islam as Abraham’s (Ibrāhīm) son, born to the Hagar (Hājar). In Islam, Ishmael is regarded as a prophet (nabi) and an ancestor to Muhammad. He also became associated with Mecca and the construction of the Kaaba, as well as equated with the term “Arab” by some. Stories of Ishmael are not only found in Jewish and Christian texts, such as the Bible and rabbinic Midrash, but also Islamic sources. These sources include the Quran, Quranic commentary, hadith, historiographic collections like that of Muhammad ibn Jarir al-Tabari, and Isra’iliyat (Islamic texts about Biblical or ancient Israelite figures that originate from Jewish or Christian sources).[1][2] For further reading on many versions of stories about Ishmael, al-Tabari’s Prophets and Patriarchs is recommended.[3]
 
Interesting…👍

The Qur’an is also pretty vague in and of itself. Sometimes I get the feeling the writer pulls at straws;)

MJ
Martin,
. When people inherit beliefs, or simply ascribe to them, there tends to be a bias and an allegiance which can skew objectivity, which makes it hard to be impartial.

Psalm 2:7 “…Jehovah had said onto me (David), thou art my Son; this day have I begotten thee.” Here in this verse we see that God not only called David his “Son”, but also had made him his begotten Son…

Hence, even if “begotten” were true in the case of Jesus, this would indicate that David was previously God’s “only” begotten Son prior to Jesus.

My suspicions are that language and its usage are at fault and that people get hung up on the importance of something and lose sight of that which is of greater importance, allowing dust in the eye, as it were.

As in Hebrews, Melchizedek was “without mother, without father, without descent,”

To me, this is another form of “I am the Alpha and the Omega”, similar to “Before Abraham was, I am”…
 
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