Why is Christianity right and Islam wrong?

[josh987654321]

Josh - Great questions

What is my view of Jesus Christ? I offer these thoughts from the Baha’i writings which would form my view.

"As to the position of Christianity, let it be stated without any hesitation or equivocation that its divine origin is unconditionally acknowledged, that the Sonship and Divinity of Jesus Christ are fearlessly asserted, that the divine inspiration of the Gospel is fully recognized, that the reality of the mystery of the Immaculacy of the Virgin Mary is confessed, and the primacy of Peter, the Prince of the Apostles, is upheld and defended.

"The Founder of the Christian Faith is designated by Baha’u’llah as the “Spirit of God,” is proclaimed as the One Who “appeared out of the breath of the Holy Ghost,” and is even extolled as the “Essence of the Spirit.” His mother is described as “that veiled and immortal, that most beauteous, countenance,” and the station of her Son eulogized as a “station which hath been exalted above the imaginings of all that dwell on earth,” whilst Peter is recognized as one whom God has caused “the mysteries of wisdom and of utterance to flow out of his mouth.”

Who is Jesus Christ to you? Baha’u’llah has given me these thoughts re Christ and I hold 100% with these thoughts

“Know thou that when the Son of Man yielded up His breath to God, the whole of Creation wept with a great weeping. By sacrificing Himself, however, a fresh capacity was infused into all created things. Its evidences, as witnessed in all the peoples of the earth, are now manifest before thee. The deepest wisdom which the sages have uttered, the profoundest learning which any mind hath unfolded, the arts which the ablest hands have produced, the influence exerted by the most potent of rulers, are but manifestations of the quickening power released by His transcendent, His all-pervasive, and resplendent spirit . . . He it is who purified the world. Blessed the man who, with a face beaming with light, hath turned towards Him”.

How great we must love Christ!

What do I get out of the Gospels Matthew, Mark, Luke and John

I get a Love for God through Christ, I get a way to live my Life, I get hope of a new life, I get a promise that it will be, I get understanding that I must act on my Faith, I get understanding that I do not know everything. If I had time to post I would get a lot more

Regards Tony

God bless

Out of the Gospels, I guess I could sum it up personally with, the truth the way and the life in Jesus Christ.

I have never heard of Baha’i before, would you be able to sum up a bit about your religion for me and maybe what we differ on? I doubt any of us will convert or anything, but I’m interested in learning about your religion.

God Bless

Thank you for reading
Josh

 

[tonyfish58]

If you can’t explain it then why do you believe in it?

So when you say “He is the only begotten son of God for all eternity, before the creation of anything which was created.”…what does the word “begotten” mean?

You use the word, tell me what it means?

The dictionary definition is: 1. (esp. of a male parent) to generate (offspring).
2. to produce as an effect

Does it mean any of these things?

Yes individual Words can be an issue, may be we have to look at translation to get an understanding.

I found this explanation which shows that the use of one word can cause many different interpretations to arise!

Question: “What does it mean that Jesus is God’s only begotten son?”

Answer: The phrase “only begotten Son” occurs in John 3:16, which reads in the King James Version as, “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.” The phrase “only begotten” translates the Greek word monogenes. This word is variously translated into English as “only,” “one and only,” and “only begotten.”

It’s this last phrase (“only begotten” used in the KJV, NASB and the NKJV) that causes problems. False teachers have latched onto this phrase to try to prove their false teaching that Jesus Christ isn’t God; i.e., that Jesus isn’t equal in essence to God as the Second Person of the Trinity. They see the word “begotten” and say that Jesus is a created being because only someone who had a beginning in time can be “begotten.” What this fails to note is that “begotten” is an English translation of a Greek word. As such, we have to look at the original meaning of the Greek word, not transfer English meanings into the text.

So what does monogenes mean? According to the Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature (BAGD, 3rd Edition), monogenes has two primary definitions. The first definition is “pertaining to being the only one of its kind within a specific relationship.” This is its meaning in Hebrews 11:17 when the writer refers to Isaac as Abraham’s “only begotten son” (KJV). Abraham had more than one son, but Isaac was the only son he had by Sarah and the only son of the covenant. Therefore, it is the uniqueness of Isaac among the other sons that allows for the use of monogenes in that context.

The second definition is “pertaining to being the only one of its kind or class, unique in kind.” This is the meaning that is implied in John 3:16 (see also John 1:14, 18; 3:18; 1 John 4:9). John was primarily concerned with demonstrating that Jesus is the Son of God (John 20:31), and he uses monogenes to highlight Jesus as uniquely God’s Son—sharing the same divine nature as God—as opposed to believers who are God’s sons and daughters by adoption (Ephesians 1:5). Jesus is God’s “one and only” Son.

The bottom line is that terms such as “Father” and “Son,” descriptive of God and Jesus, are human terms that help us understand the relationship between the different Persons of the Trinity. If you can understand the relationship between a human father and a human son, then you can understand, in part, the relationship between the First and Second Persons of the Trinity. The analogy breaks down if you try to take it too far and teach, as some Christian cults (such as the Jehovah’s Witnesses), that Jesus was literally “begotten” as in “produced” or “created” by God the Father.

Read more: gotquestions.org/only-begotten-son.html#ixzz2j6bC73ew

Regards Tony

 

[tonyfish58]

God bless

Out of the Gospels, I guess I could sum it up personally with, the truth the way and the life in Jesus Christ.

I have never heard of Baha’i before, would you be able to sum up a bit about your religion for me and maybe what we differ on? I doubt any of us will convert or anything, but I’m interested in learning about your religion.

God Bless

Thank you for reading
Josh

Josh you have done a good summary “Out of the Gospels, I guess I could sum it up personally with, the truth the way and the life in Jesus Christ”.

That is good, could we also add Love of God though?

What we may differ on is a few of the Church Doctrines, but what we agree on is more important IMHO Lets look at one aspect that is the Beatitudes

Per wikipedia; The term Beatitude comes from the Latin adjective beatus which means happy, fortunate, or blissful. Most people with a Christian background are probably familiar with the Beatitudes from the Sermon on the Mount:

"Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall he comforted.

Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.

Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.

Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.

Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.

Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.

Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness’ sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for My sake"

There are also “beatitudes” in Baha’i Writings

"Blessed the slumberer who is awakened by My Breeze.
"Blessed the lifeless one who is quickened through My reviving breaths.
"Blessed the eye that is solaced by gazing at My beauty.
"Blessed the wayfarer who directeth his steps towards the Tabernacle of My glory and majesty.
"Blessed the distressed one who seeketh refuge beneath the shadow of My canopy.
"Blessed the sore athirst who hasteneth to the soft-flowing waters of My loving-kindness.
"Blessed the insatiate soul who casteth away his selfish desires for love of Me and taketh his place at the banquet table which I have sent down from the heaven of divine bounty for My chosen ones.
"Blessed the abased one who layeth fast hold on the cord of My glory; and the needy one who entereth beneath the shadow of the Tabernacle of My wealth.
"Blessed the ignorant one who seeketh the fountain of My knowledge; and the heedless one who cleaveth to the cord of My remembrance.
"Blessed the soul that hath been raised to life through My quickening breath and hath gained admittance into My heavenly Kingdom.
"Blessed the man whom the sweet savours of reunion with Me have stirred and caused to draw nigh unto the Dayspring of My Revelation.
"Blessed the ear that hath heard and the tongue that hath borne witness and the eye that hath seen and recognized the Lord Himself, in His great glory and majesty, invested with grandeur and dominion.
"Blessed are they that have attained His presence.
"Blessed the man who hath sought enlightenment from the Day-Star of My Word.
"Blessed he who hath attired his head with the diadem of My love.
"Blessed is he who hath heard of My grief and hath arisen to aid Me among My people.
"Blessed is he who hath laid down his life in My path and hath borne manifold hardships for the sake of My Name.
"Blessed the man who, assured of My Word, hath arisen from among the dead to celebrate My praise.
"Blessed is he that hath been enraptured by My wondrous melodies and hath rent the veils asunder through the potency of My might.
"Blessed is he who hath remained faithful to My Covenant, and whom the things of the world have not kept back from attaining My Court of holiness.
"Blessed is the man who hath detached himself from all else but Me, hath soared in the atmosphere of My love, hath gained admittance into My Kingdom, gazed upon My realms of glory, quaffed the living waters of My bounty, hath drunk his fill from the heavenly river of My loving providence, acquainted himself with My Cause, apprehended that which I concealed within the treasury of My Words, and hath shone forth from the horizon of divine knowledge engaged in My praise and glorification.
“Verily, he is of Me. Upon him rest My mercy, My loving-kindness, My bounty and My glory.”
–“Lawh-i-Aqdas” (aka “Tablet to the Christians”), Tablets of Baha’u’llah, pp. 16-17

If you would like we could explore other Scriptures that agree

Regards Tony

 

[josh987654321]

Josh you have done a good summary “Out of the Gospels, I guess I could sum it up personally with, the truth the way and the life in Jesus Christ”.

That is good, could we also add Love of God though?

Of course.

What we may differ on is a few of the Church Doctrines, but what we agree on is more important IMHO

I agree.

Lets look at one aspect that is the Beatitudes

Per wikipedia; The term Beatitude comes from the Latin adjective beatus which means happy, fortunate, or blissful. Most people with a Christian background are probably familiar with the Beatitudes from the Sermon on the Mount:

"Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Blessed are they that mourn: for they shall he comforted.

Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth.

Blessed are they which do hunger and thirst after righteousness: for they shall be filled.

Blessed are the merciful: for they shall obtain mercy.

Blessed are the pure in heart: for they shall see God.

Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.

Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness’ sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely, for My sake"

Amen

There are also “beatitudes” in Baha’i Writings

"Blessed the slumberer who is awakened by My Breeze.
"Blessed the lifeless one who is quickened through My reviving breaths.
"Blessed the eye that is solaced by gazing at My beauty.
"Blessed the wayfarer who directeth his steps towards the Tabernacle of My glory and majesty.
"Blessed the distressed one who seeketh refuge beneath the shadow of My canopy.
"Blessed the sore athirst who hasteneth to the soft-flowing waters of My loving-kindness.
"Blessed the insatiate soul who casteth away his selfish desires for love of Me and taketh his place at the banquet table which I have sent down from the heaven of divine bounty for My chosen ones.
"Blessed the abased one who layeth fast hold on the cord of My glory; and the needy one who entereth beneath the shadow of the Tabernacle of My wealth.
"Blessed the ignorant one who seeketh the fountain of My knowledge; and the heedless one who cleaveth to the cord of My remembrance.
"Blessed the soul that hath been raised to life through My quickening breath and hath gained admittance into My heavenly Kingdom.
"Blessed the man whom the sweet savours of reunion with Me have stirred and caused to draw nigh unto the Dayspring of My Revelation.
"Blessed the ear that hath heard and the tongue that hath borne witness and the eye that hath seen and recognized the Lord Himself, in His great glory and majesty, invested with grandeur and dominion.
"Blessed are they that have attained His presence.
"Blessed the man who hath sought enlightenment from the Day-Star of My Word.
"Blessed he who hath attired his head with the diadem of My love.
"Blessed is he who hath heard of My grief and hath arisen to aid Me among My people.
"Blessed is he who hath laid down his life in My path and hath borne manifold hardships for the sake of My Name.
"Blessed the man who, assured of My Word, hath arisen from among the dead to celebrate My praise.
"Blessed is he that hath been enraptured by My wondrous melodies and hath rent the veils asunder through the potency of My might.
"Blessed is he who hath remained faithful to My Covenant, and whom the things of the world have not kept back from attaining My Court of holiness.
"Blessed is the man who hath detached himself from all else but Me, hath soared in the atmosphere of My love, hath gained admittance into My Kingdom, gazed upon My realms of glory, quaffed the living waters of My bounty, hath drunk his fill from the heavenly river of My loving providence, acquainted himself with My Cause, apprehended that which I concealed within the treasury of My Words, and hath shone forth from the horizon of divine knowledge engaged in My praise and glorification.
“Verily, he is of Me. Upon him rest My mercy, My loving-kindness, My bounty and My glory.”
–“Lawh-i-Aqdas” (aka “Tablet to the Christians”), Tablets of Baha’u’llah, pp. 16-17

If you would like we could explore other Scriptures that agree

Regards Tony

Would you be able to explain to me the origin of Baha’i please? is it a form of islam? because, I mean, I have never heard of it before in my life.

Also just another quick question I want to ask is, do you believe Jesus Christ was a prophet?

God Bless

Thank you for reading
Josh

 

[tonyfish58]

Would you be able to explain to me the origin of Baha’i please? is it a form of islam? because, I mean, I have never heard of it before in my life.

Also just another quick question I want to ask is, do you believe Jesus Christ was a prophet?

God Bless Thank you for reading Josh

Josh - Thank you for the questions

The best way to explain the origin of the Baha’i Faith is to go back a little and discuss the Origin of the Christian Faith.

As you know Christianity was Born out of the all the books and Scriptures of the Old Testament. It became the Religion of God in its own Right and can not be called an offshoot of Judaism. Christians being lovers of God through Christ and follow the Old and New Testament.

We would then explain that this is also applicable to the Muslim Faith, that it was born out of the Old and New Testament and became a Religion in its own Right. Muslims being Lovers of God through the Words of Muhammad, the Koran, the Old and New Testament.

Thus the Baha’i Faith was born out of all those preceding scriptures and quotes from all of them, Baha’u’llah quotes passages from the Koran often as that is the main audience He had, but Baha’u’llah addressed the whole of Humanity, so He has quoted from all Scripture. Baha’i is also now a Religion in its own right, Baha’is being Lovers of God through Baha’u’llahs Words, Muhammad, the Old and New Testament & all the Prophets, We recognise Baha’u’llah as the latest message from God.

Baha’u’llah has explained the Station of Jesus the Christ and yes Christ was a Messenger from God, a Prophet. This is a big subject that covers many biblical passages and the Church has it direction on this issue, so I will leave it to you if you wish to explore this more.

God Bless - regards Tony

 

[josh987654321]

Josh - Thank you for the questions

The best way to explain the origin of the Baha’i Faith is to go back a little and discuss the Origin of the Christian Faith.

As you know Christianity was Born out of the all the books and Scriptures of the Old Testament. It became the Religion of God in its own Right and can not be called an offshoot of Judaism. Christians being lovers of God through Christ.

We would then explain that this is also applicable to the Muslim Faith, that it was born out of the Old and New Testament and became a Religion in its own Right. Muslims being Lovers of God through the Words of Muhammad.

Thus the Baha’i Faith was born out of all those preceding scriptures and quotes from all of them, Baha’u’llah quotes passages from the Koran often as that is the main audience He had, but Baha’u’llah addressed the whole of Humanity, so He has quoted from all Scripture. Baha’i is also now a Religion in its own right, Baha’is being Lovers of God through all the Prophets and recognise Baha’u’llah as the latest message from God.

Baha’u’llah has explained the Station of Jesus the Christ and yes Christ was a Messenger from God, a Prophet. This is a big subject that covers many biblical passages and the Church has it direction on this issue, so I will leave it to you if you wish to explore this more.

God Bless - regards Tony

Thanks Tony,

So Baha’i is considered a part of islam? that takes Baha’i along with Jesus and Muhummad as prophets?

The other question I want to ask is, why don’t you believe Jesus Christ to be the son of God? how do you understand the passages that say/point out he is, in the Gospels?

Sorry for all the questions, feel free to ask me anything about my faith if you like and i’ll try to answer them to the best of my ability

God Bless

Thank you for reading
Josh

 

[Servant19]

Hello Josh and Tony.

May I humbly suggest that to maintain the threads integrity that you continue your amicable dialogue in the Bahai V thread?

That way we can continue to explore the concepts of interest between Islam and Christianity here.

God bless you both dear friends

 

[josh987654321]

Hello Josh and Tony.

May I humbly suggest that to maintain the threads integrity that you continue your amicable dialogue in the Bahai V thread?

That way we can continue to explore the concepts of interest between Islam and Christianity here.

God bless you both dear friends

Oh sure, my apologies, could you please provide me with a link?

God Bless

Thank you
Josh

 

[Servant19]

Oh sure, my apologies, could you please provide me with a link?

God Bless

Thank you
Josh

here you go dear friend

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=830727&page=31

 

[josh987654321]

here you go dear friend

forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=830727&page=31

Thank you

 

[MartinJordan]

Hello Josh and Tony.

May I humbly suggest that to maintain the threads integrity that you continue your amicable dialogue in the Bahai V thread?

That way we can continue to explore the concepts of interest between Islam and Christianity here.

God bless you both dear friends

Finally…

MJ

 

[tonyfish58]

Thanks Tony,

So Baha’i is considered a part of islam? that takes Baha’i along with Jesus and Muhummad as prophets?

The other question I want to ask is, why don’t you believe Jesus Christ to be the son of God? how do you understand the passages that say/point out he is, in the Gospels?

Sorry for all the questions, feel free to ask me any about my faith if you like and i’ll try to answer them to the best of my ability

God Bless Thank you for reading Josh

Josh - Thank you for the reply - The Baha’i Faith is not considered part of Islam the same way the Christianity is not part of Judaism. They have their seeds planted and grew from previous Scriptures, but have grown Independent and blossomed to full fruit as individual Religions.

Or a better way to put it may be that they are different Branches of the same mighty tree that all feed off the same root stock!

So yes we beleive in Progressive Revelation, that God sends His Prophets to bring Man to a fuller understanding of His love as man Grows in Capacity to accept Gods Message. Each age has its own needs and God never leaves us alone!

We do accept Jesus as the Son of God, the difference being in interpretation of some Biblical Passages. We are told it is a Station not a Flesh Fact. There are many writings on this subject to explore, Biblical, Koran and Baha’i writings.

You have offered this “feel free to ask me any about my faith if you like and I’ll try to answer them to the best of my ability”. Thank you for the offer on sharing your Faith.

What are your thoughts re Christ and God? and Where do you see at this point, that we may differ?

Regards Tony

 

[tonyfish58]

Hello Josh and Tony.

May I humbly suggest that to maintain the threads integrity that you continue your amicable dialogue in the Bahai V thread?

That way we can continue to explore the concepts of interest between Islam and Christianity here.

God bless you both dear friends

Sorry my Friends - Teach me not to read the Title of the Thread First, that is where I thought we were! So off we go

Regards Tony

 

[Servant19]

Finally…

MJ

Martin, I think you’ve mentioned the “B-word” on this thread more than the Ba- - - - 's

 

[Servant19]

Sorry my Friends - Teach me not to read the Title of the Thread First, that is where I thought we were! So off we go

Regards Tony

he heh he
:whacky:

love ya mate!

 

[josh987654321]

Josh - Thank you for the reply - The Baha’i Faith is not considered part of Islam the same way the Christianity is not part of Judaism. They have their seeds planted and grew from previous Scriptures, but have grown Independent and blossomed to full fruit as individual Religions.

Or a better way to put it may be that they are different Branches of the same mighty tree that all feed off the same root stock!

So yes we beleive in Progressive Revelation, that God sends His Prophets to bring Man to a fuller understanding of His love as man Grows in Capacity to accept Gods Message. Each age has its own needs and God never leaves us alone!

We do accept Jesus as the Son of God, the difference being in interpretation of some Biblical Passages. We are told it is a Station not a Flesh Fact. There are many writings on this subject to explore, Biblical, Koran and Baha’i writings.

You have offered this “feel free to ask me any about my faith if you like and I’ll try to answer them to the best of my ability”. Thank you for the offer on sharing your Faith.

What are your thoughts re Christ and God? and Where do you see at this point, that we may differ?

Regards Tony

Thanks Tony, I replied here - forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=830727&page=31

God Bless

Josh

 

[Servant19]

Yes individual Words can be an issue, may be we have to look at translation to get an understanding.

I found this explanation which shows that the use of one word can cause many different interpretations to arise!

Question: “What does it mean that Jesus is God’s only begotten son?”

Answer: The phrase “only begotten Son” occurs in John 3:16, which reads in the King James Version as, “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in Him should not perish, but have everlasting life.” The phrase “only begotten” translates the Greek word monogenes. This word is variously translated into English as “only,” “one and only,” and “only begotten.”

It’s this last phrase (“only begotten” used in the KJV, NASB and the NKJV) that causes problems. False teachers have latched onto this phrase to try to prove their false teaching that Jesus Christ isn’t God; i.e., that Jesus isn’t equal in essence to God as the Second Person of the Trinity. They see the word “begotten” and say that Jesus is a created being because only someone who had a beginning in time can be “begotten.” What this fails to note is that “begotten” is an English translation of a Greek word. As such, we have to look at the original meaning of the Greek word, not transfer English meanings into the text.

So what does monogenes mean? According to the Greek-English Lexicon of the New Testament and Other Early Christian Literature (BAGD, 3rd Edition), monogenes has two primary definitions. The first definition is “pertaining to being the only one of its kind within a specific relationship.” This is its meaning in Hebrews 11:17 when the writer refers to Isaac as Abraham’s “only begotten son” (KJV). Abraham had more than one son, but Isaac was the only son he had by Sarah and the only son of the covenant. Therefore, it is the uniqueness of Isaac among the other sons that allows for the use of monogenes in that context.

The second definition is “pertaining to being the only one of its kind or class, unique in kind.” This is the meaning that is implied in John 3:16 (see also John 1:14, 18; 3:18; 1 John 4:9). John was primarily concerned with demonstrating that Jesus is the Son of God (John 20:31), and he uses monogenes to highlight Jesus as uniquely God’s Son—sharing the same divine nature as God—as opposed to believers who are God’s sons and daughters by adoption (Ephesians 1:5). Jesus is God’s “one and only” Son.

The bottom line is that terms such as “Father” and “Son,” descriptive of God and Jesus, are human terms that help us understand the relationship between the different Persons of the Trinity. If you can understand the relationship between a human father and a human son, then you can understand, in part, the relationship between the First and Second Persons of the Trinity. The analogy breaks down if you try to take it too far and teach, as some Christian cults (such as the Jehovah’s Witnesses), that Jesus was literally “begotten” as in “produced” or “created” by God the Father.

Read more: gotquestions.org/only-begotten-son.html#ixzz2j6bC73ew

Regards Tony

Thanks for this Tony!

But in all reality, this passage you gave provides me with no better understanding of what the word “begotten” actually means from a Christian point of view?

If anyone can assist me with this, we can hopefully discern why in the Quran it states that God does not beget

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

If you can’t explain it then why do you believe in it?

Because I came a while ago to the conclusion that empiricism, demanding evidence and proper argumentation and complete explanation for everything, is a false viewpoint. Can you explain why God is simple? Can you explain why God’s essence cannot fit into the world? Nope, yet you believe in it just the same.

So when you say “He is the only begotten son of God for all eternity, before the creation of anything which was created.”…what does the word “begotten” mean?

You use the word, tell me what it means?

The dictionary definition is: 1. (esp. of a male parent) to generate (offspring).
2. to produce as an effect

Does it mean any of these things?

I told you what it does not mean, this is not a subject I am familiar with but I accept it because I accept the church Christ founded. But don’t try to deviate the topic as to what Christians mean by this, this is about whether the quran is right or wrong in its description of Christian beliefs and its arguments against Christianity. The quran directly says God cannot have a son because he would need a consort, and I believe this is a direct responce to the Christians given the stressing over and over again in the quran against the idea of Jesus being a son. That is the Christians call him a son and the jews call someone I forget a son of God (even though they do not). The quran is thus mistaken.

 

[Servant19]

Because I came a while ago to the conclusion that empiricism, demanding evidence and proper argumentation and complete explanation for everything, is a false viewpoint. Can you explain why God is simple? Can you explain why God’s essence cannot fit into the world? Nope, yet you believe in it just the same.

Ummmm, I don’t believe in any of those things or at least am humble enough to not assert that I do, so no need for explanation. You assert that Jesus is “begotten” from God. I don’t expect empiricism, just a rational understanding that can give a picture or a glimpse into what it may mean

I told you what it does not mean, this is not a subject I am familiar with but I accept it because I accept the church Christ founded. But don’t try to deviate the topic as to what Christians mean by this, this is about whether the quran is right or wrong in its description of Christian beliefs and its arguments against Christianity. The quran directly says God cannot have a son because he would need a consort, and I believe this is a direct responce to the Christians given the stressing over and over again in the quran against the idea of Jesus being a son. That is the Christians call him a son and the jews call someone I forget a son of God (even though they do not). The quran is thus mistaken.

I’m not trying to deviate the topic. The Quran says that God does not beget. The whole Christian world is up in arms with Islam because of such a verse, claiming it as being false, etc etc, as if the adherents know exactly what “beget” means, and that the Quranic view is false.

Well, in order to claim something as false, you need to have the truth. What is the truth about God begetting a Son?

Its not a deviation, its a zooming in

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

Ummmm, I don’t believe in any of those things or at least am humble enough to not assert that I do, so no need for explanation. You assert that Jesus is “begotten” from God. I don’t expect empiricism, just a rational understanding that can give a picture or a glimpse into what it may mean

I’m not trying to deviate the topic. The Quran says that God does not beget. The whole Christian world is up in arms with Islam because of such a verse, claiming it as being false, etc etc, as if the adherents know exactly what “beget” means, and that the Quranic view is false.

Well, in order to claim something as false, you need to have the truth. What is the truth about God begetting a Son?

Its not a deviation, its a zooming in

Servant when someone admits ignorance. it is curtesy not to demand an explanation. When someone admits they cannot answer a specific question, leave it be. Bahai may like to answer everything (and be subsequently proved fools) but I don’t. I told you what beggetton in the Christian context does not mean. That is enough to establish my point. It does not mean in Christianity that God has a female spirit consort like in mormonism. It is something more profound.

But you don’t believe God is simple? Are there parts to your God? Can you cut a piece of God up? Divide him? That is you can take a part of him and then say I have 1% of what God is? Divine simplicity is a standard doctrine of God that says he is not complex, like we are. That is we are not composed of a simple essence, we are complex, even in the soul I would argue when compared to God who is one.

As for God and his essence not fitting into creation, I am confused. Bahai deny Christ could be God because a human being cannot handle divinity. Are you saying we can fit God in his pure essence, that which he is into creation? Well your not gnostic anymore if thats the case.