Why is Christianity right and Islam wrong?

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daler said:
Martin,
. You know there is a funny thing about talking religion, with anyone. It brings stuff out of us. Thanks be to God, Allah, and the Great Spirit (Is this a Trinity thing… 😉 that mostly people don’t physically do battle anymore, although you are quite right, it would be very hard to have these kinds of open conversations in some Muslim countries.

. That is what is so ironic. As a Baha’i, or from the Baha’i perspective, I’ve found myself defending not only Islam against Christians who are upset with it, but Catholicism from angry Adventists or Mennonites, and Christianity to Jews. As fanatic Muslims hate the Baha’is, and my children’s mother came from Iran, where her aunt and cousins were imprisoned, and might be related to the recent Baha’i murdered for his Faith last August, it is an odd position to be in, isn’t it.

. Servant has a point. Do the current leaders of Islam really know their Faith? Is Faith something that changes over time, like a tree which has a certain lifespan, then withers, giving way to a new tree growing up out of the midst of its decaying branches?

. Steve incorrectly describes the Baha’i Faith as an offshoot of Islam, which is like reducing Christianity to an offshoot of Judaism. The view is rather that religion “is” renewed, just like the seeds of a plant, in a new Spiritual Springtime.

. From the typical Christian perspective, there is a flow from Adam through Christ, with all of the Prophets in between. Islam just thinks there was one more Prophet in that line. Baha’is think there have been a couple more.
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Boy dear Daler, I would really suggest another thread for the Bahai on what they believe what Islam supposedly teaches. And let Muslims tell how they feel about it.

My humble suggestion. 🙂

MJ
 
daler said:
Steve, dear friend,
. Is Christianity primarily a Jewish offshoot? What would you say to someone who says that?

. Each successive major Manifestation, or Prophet, has succeeded the previous One. Abraham succeeded Noah. Moses superseded Abraham. Jesus superseded Moses, etc.

. It is not necessarily a disconnect. Just when people choose to view it that way. Jello “jells” all by itself. Nobody has to make it jell. If its really Jello, it will “jell”. (Bill Cosby told me that years ago… 😉

.
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I really don’t know also how Bill Cosby suddenly became a philosopher;)

MJ
 
MartinJordan said:
I really don’t know also how Bill Cosby suddenly became a philosopher;)

MJ
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Martin,
Did you ever hear the “Right!” album? Early on, when Bill Cosby was doing stand up comedy in the 60s, he made this album and I remember it as being hilarious. Gonna have to Google it and see what comes up.
The “Right” piece was about Noah being sort of a regular guy and he starts hearing God telling him: “Noah… I want you to build… an Ark!”
And Noah says: “Right… What’s an Ark?..”

It was really funny… 😉
 
daler said:
Martin,
Did you ever hear the “Right!” album? Early on, when Bill Cosby was doing stand up comedy in the 60s, he made this album and I remember it as being hilarious. Gonna have to Google it and see what comes up.
The “Right” piece was about Noah being sort of a regular guy and he starts hearing God telling him: “Noah… I want you to build… an Ark!”
And Noah says: “Right… What’s an Ark?..”

It was really funny… 😉
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Perhaps because Noah didn’t speak English:p

MJ
 
MartinJordan said:
It’s got nothing to do with niceties or atrocities. Its about what Islam considers as truth and not truth.
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My friend, who said anything about niceties?
Of course its about Truth. What is Truth? For Muslims, Truth is what Muhammad intended with all His Revelation, not what Mr. XYZ reckons is the Truth that Muhammad intended.

All Muslim countries are run by and are filled with Mr. XYZ’s. How do I know what the Truth is that Muhammad intended?
Simple… by the fruits radiated from putting into practice the intended meaning as revealed by the “Unsealer” of His Words’ meanings

If Sacred Word is interpreted to give forth goodly fruits, then it is from God, and therefore the correct interpretation. No fair-minded person can argue with that.
If its interpreted to give forth yucky fruits, then it is not the correct interpretation.

This applies to the Quran AND the Bible, and forms the basis of what you call “magesterial teaching”

Unfortunately Islam does not have the benefit of sweeping its atrocities under the carpet of “its not the true official teaching”, so Muhammad will be defended (and rightly so) by the Baha’is 🙂
 
Servant19 said:
My friend, who said anything about niceties?
Of course its about Truth. What is Truth? For Muslims, Truth is what Muhammad intended with all His Revelation, not what Mr. XYZ reckons is the Truth that Muhammad intended.

All Muslim countries are run by and are filled with Mr. XYZ’s. How do I know what the Truth is that Muhammad intended?
Simple… by the fruits radiated from putting into practice the intended meaning as revealed by the “Unsealer” of His Words’ meanings

If Sacred Word is interpreted to give forth goodly fruits, then it is from God, and therefore the correct interpretation. No fair-minded person can argue with that.
If its interpreted to give forth yucky fruits, then it is not the correct interpretation.

This applies to the Quran AND the Bible, and forms the basis of what you call “magesterial teaching”

Unfortunately Islam does not have the benefit of sweeping its atrocities under the carpet of “its not the true official teaching”, so Muhammad will be defended (and rightly so) by the Baha’is 🙂
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You are doing it again. Making this a Bahai thread when its clearly NOT.

MJ
 
MartinJordan said:
You are doing it again. Making this a Bahai thread when its clearly NOT.

MJ
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Martin,
. Did you view Cosby’s humor? Curious to know your reaction.

. As to trying very hard to not mention the word Baha’i here out of respect for your request, it is impossible to not be influenced by having been exposed to it.

. I think that defending a religion which is being associated with the current trend of terrorism is a very difficult thing to do, like separating the pure water out of something which has been poisoned.

. so its a process of distillation. How does one distill water without using a proper boiler? How do we boil the truth out of solution tainted by the bias and prejudice of historical slants and pollutants contaminating the real deal?

. This isn’t a Baha’i thread of course, but as Servant just mentioned, it is a truth thread, isn’t it? Or if not, then it is merely a thread for bashing Islam.

. Personally, I believe it is far beneath the dignity of the teachings of Christ to simply have an agenda with a preconceived end, and if there are no other participants present to uphold the merits of Islam, such as Muslims, then who is there to defend this Faith except the only other people on earth who accept Muhammad as an authentic Prophet of God?

. “The truth shall set you free”
 
daler said:
Martin,
. Did you view Cosby’s humor? Curious to know your reaction.

. As to trying very hard to not mention the word Baha’i here out of respect for your request, it is impossible to not be influenced by having been exposed to it.

. I think that defending a religion which is being associated with the current trend of terrorism is a very difficult thing to do, like separating the pure water out of something which has been poisoned.

. so its a process of distillation. How does one distill water without using a proper boiler? How do we boil the truth out of solution tainted by the bias and prejudice of historical slants and pollutants contaminating the real deal?

. This isn’t a Baha’i thread of course, but as Servant just mentioned, it is a truth thread, isn’t it? Or if not, then it is merely a thread for bashing Islam.

. Personally, I believe it is far beneath the dignity of the teachings of Christ to simply have an agenda with a preconceived end, and if there are no other participants present to uphold the merits of Islam, such as Muslims, then who is there to defend this Faith except the only other people on earth who accept Muhammad as an authentic Prophet of God?

. “The truth shall set you free”
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I got a laugh 😃 👍

I would also agree “If there are no other participants present to uphold the merits of Islam, such as Muslims, then who is there to defend this Faith except the only other people on earth who accept Muhammad as an authentic Prophet of God”?

There is so much Truth to be Found in the Koran. Should we not explore the Truths?

Regards Tony
 
tonyfish58 said:
There is so much Truth to be Found in the Koran. Should we not explore the Truths?

Regards Tony
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Quran isn’t the only thing Muslims use right? 5 times a day…Hadith for example.

Meawnhile, the Bible says Pray at all times. Closeness to the Loving Father by having the FAITH of Christ and his Grace. The Quran just doesn’t do enough. 😃

MJ
 
MartinJordan said:
Until the CCC mentions Muhammad somewhere, Mohammed isn’t even on the radar as far as Im concerned. 🙂

MJ
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So you don’t know??

You’re basing your entire “falsehood of Islam” premise on what other people say about Islam. And these other people have gotten their entire authority on the interpretation of the word “rock”?
 
Servant19 said:
So you don’t know

You’re basing your entire “falsehood of Islam” premise on what other people say about Islam. And these other people have gotten their entire authority on the interpretation of the word “rock”?
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Islam says God has no Son. That’s more than enough for me to decide.

MJ
 
MartinJordan said:
Islam says God has no Son. That’s more than enough for me to decide.

MJ
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And the possibility that this may be in reference to Jesus’ “human” aspect rather than His Divine aspect has not even crossed you mind?
 
MartinJordan said:
Quran isn’t the only thing Muslims use right? 5 times a day…Hadith for example.

Meawnhile, the Bible says Pray at all times. Closeness to the Loving Father by having the FAITH of Christ and his Grace. The Quran just doesn’t do enough. 😃

MJ
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Or could the People of the Book (Koran) do more than the Christians, it may be worth exploring this concept?

5 Times a day they pray at least after ablutions, and I know they do more and reflect as Christians Do. Bowing and Submitting to God is Important!

And the Bible teaches its followers to Prostrate to the One True Living GOD Almighty:

“Then David said to the whole assembly, “Praise the LORD your God.” So they all praised the LORD , the God of their fathers; they bowed low and fell prostrate before the LORD and the king. (From the NIV Bible, 1 Chronicles 29:20)”

“Then once again I fell prostrate before the LORD for forty days and forty nights; I ate no bread and drank no water, because of all the sin you had committed, doing what was evil in the LORD’s sight and so provoking him to anger. (From the NIV Bible, Deuteronomy 9:18)”

“the oracle of one who hears the words of God, who has knowledge from the Most High, who sees a vision from the Almighty, who falls prostrate, and whose eyes are opened: (From the NIV Bible, Numbers 24:16)”

“When all the people saw this, they fell prostrate and cried, “The LORD -he is God! The LORD -he is God!” (From the NIV Bible, 1 Kings 18:39)”

Jesus peace be upon him taught his followers to bow down to Allah Almighty in worship; “Going a little farther, he [Jesus] fell with his face to the ground and prayed, ‘My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will.’ (From the NIV Bible, Matthew 26:39)”

Regards Tony
 
tonyfish58 said:
Or could the People of the Book (Koran) do more than the Christians, it may be worth exploring this concept?

5 Times a day they pray at least after ablutions, and I know they do more and reflect as Christians Do. Bowing and Submitting to God is Important!

And the Bible teaches its followers to Prostrate to the One True Living GOD Almighty:

“Then David said to the whole assembly, “Praise the LORD your God.” So they all praised the LORD , the God of their fathers; they bowed low and fell prostrate before the LORD and the king. (From the NIV Bible, 1 Chronicles 29:20)”

“Then once again I fell prostrate before the LORD for forty days and forty nights; I ate no bread and drank no water, because of all the sin you had committed, doing what was evil in the LORD’s sight and so provoking him to anger. (From the NIV Bible, Deuteronomy 9:18)”

“the oracle of one who hears the words of God, who has knowledge from the Most High, who sees a vision from the Almighty, who falls prostrate, and whose eyes are opened: (From the NIV Bible, Numbers 24:16)”

“When all the people saw this, they fell prostrate and cried, “The LORD -he is God! The LORD -he is God!” (From the NIV Bible, 1 Kings 18:39)”

Jesus peace be upon him taught his followers to bow down to Allah Almighty in worship; “Going a little farther, he [Jesus] fell with his face to the ground and prayed, ‘My Father, if it is possible, may this cup be taken from me. Yet not as I will, but as you will.’ (From the NIV Bible, Matthew 26:39)”

Regards Tony
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Muslims are not the only ones to bow, nor are they the only ones to pray. But I think there is the wrong attitude here, what is this about doing things? Do we accredit the rightness of any belief by those who fail to live by it? Christians fundamentally recognise themselves as fallen and in need of utter dependance on God, even those that appear outwardly lazy in their faith. Nothing we do can prompt God to do anything for us, rather we are dependant on his grace and that grace alone.

Muslims might do those set rituals each day, but how many exactly take them seriously? Or are we to expect every self professed Muslim who does these outward things to be truely devout? Not just going along with the goal of getting along in the islamic world which is largely intolerant of non muslims?

Christianity is more right than islam, Christ is more powerful than Muhammad and Mirza Hussain.
 
Servant19 said:
And the possibility that this may be in reference to Jesus’ “human” aspect rather than His Divine aspect has not even crossed you mind?
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Im looking for deep Theology and not just the usual Allah Knows best 😉

MJ
 
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