Why is Christianity right and Islam wrong?

[daler]

Nothing has been left to chance when it comes to the belief of Jesus the Son of God. Consubstantial with the Father and The Spirit originates from the Father (of whom the Son promised to send). This is Truth. Islam denies, thus is wrong.

MJ

Martin,
. Thank you for expressing frankly your views. Having been raised Christian myself, I carried the usual prejudices against Islam and could not reconcile the differences until I started studying the Quran for myself, realizing that about 90 % of it is a kind of reiteration of the Old Testament, with a few variations on the positions commonly held by the Christian community, such as there being only One God, Whose Messengers include all of the Prophets of the Old Testament, and Jesus (Isa). Of course in the Quran it states that God does not beget, nor is begotten, and this is a thorn in the side of Christians when they deify Christ.

. Muhammad identifies Himself as an Apostle, Whose only duty is to warn people of the Judgement Day, when all shall stand before the Creator of the Heavens and the earth.

 

[MartinJordan]

Martin,
. Thank you for expressing frankly your views. Having been raised Christian myself, I carried the usual prejudices against Islam and could not reconcile the differences until I started studying the Quran for myself, realizing that about 90 % of it is a kind of reiteration of the Old Testament, with a few variations on the positions commonly held by the Christian community, such as there being only One God, Whose Messengers include all of the Prophets of the Old Testament, and Jesus (Isa). Of course in the Quran it states that God does not beget, nor is begotten, and this is a thorn in the side of Christians when they deify Christ.

. Muhammad identifies Himself as an Apostle, Whose only duty is to warn people of the Judgement Day, when all shall stand before the Creator of the Heavens and the earth.

I have lived ALL my life with Muslims and Never had a bad experience with them. Regardless of what is happening with Islam today (where a Muslim head of a country told the UN assembly 2 weeks ago that Islam may destroy itself from WITHIN) tells me I need to know about Islam.

Jesus and His Church IS the FINAL Revelation. A victory over DEATH in which we wait in Blessed Hope for the coming of Our Saviour Jesus Christ.

This,is the Truth and it sets us FREE.

Salvation however is NOT secured we need to work for it and God will do the Rest.

MJ

 

[MartinJordan]

Post #65 should read “Tells me all I need to know about Islam” Sorry!

MJ

 

[daler]

I have lived ALL my life with Muslims and Never had a bad experience with them. Regardless of what is happening with Islam today (where a Muslim head of a country told the UN assembly 2 weeks ago that Islam may destroy itself from WITHIN) tells me I need to know about Islam.

Jesus and His Church IS the FINAL Revelation. A victory over DEATH in which we wait in Blessed Hope for the coming of Our Saviour Jesus Christ.

This,is the Truth and it sets us FREE.

Salvation however is NOT secured we need to work for it and God will do the Rest.

MJ

Martin,
. One thing is clear, and that is that there exists a kind of log-jam in the world, where people identify themselves with one or the other of the various great religions, each of which one has been largely inherited. There is an entrenchment in this to be observed, a kind of inoperable disease affecting the body of mankind. In this condition, the legs are severed from the arms, the heart from the kidneys, the lungs from the stomach, and the head from the rest of the body.

. Each claims to be the legitimate possessor of the body while denying the other limbs and organs their place and membership in that which God has created, which is the entire human race. This diseased state will not correct itself until there is a recognition of the oneness of mankind and an open dialogue between the various nations, races, and religions.

. There appears to be a process at work, an unfoldment of destiny, in which this dysfunctional body either rights itself by sobering up, or continues its own self-destruction and abasement. Education and awareness of what “others” believe and practice is most helpful. Had “we” been born over “there” to “them”, we would have inherited their views, whoever they are. So we tend to be a product of our inheritance, generally ignorant of that which others have similarly inherited, and therein lies the problem.

. The polarization and negation of one group to another is blissful foolishness which begets storms of hatred and misunderstanding. The many Muslims I have known have all been as good and God-fearing and family oriented as the Christians I was raised amongst and the Jews I knew, and the Indians, etc.

. What Islam appears to be going through at present is parallel to the Inquisitions period of Christianity, each of which is symptomatic of spiritual collapse away from its roots or origin. It is a study in human behavior and tragedy, yet also a puzzle to be solved, one which requires an open mind and a new paradigm, as all are the children of Abraham, each believing in God’s blessings and promise.

 

[MartinJordan]

Martin,
. One thing is clear, and that is that there exists a kind of log-jam in the world, where people identify themselves with one or the other of the various great religions, each of which one has been largely inherited. There is an entrenchment in this to be observed, a kind of inoperable disease affecting the body of mankind. In this condition, the legs are severed from the arms, the heart from the kidneys, the lungs from the stomach, and the head from the rest of the body.

. Each claims to be the legitimate possessor of the body while denying the other limbs and organs their place and membership in that which God has created, which is the entire human race. This diseased state will not correct itself until there is a recognition of the oneness of mankind and an open dialogue between the various nations, races, and religions.

. There appears to be a process at work, an unfoldment of destiny, in which this dysfunctional body either rights itself by sobering up, or continues its own self-destruction and abasement. Education and awareness of what “others” believe and practice is most helpful. Had “we” been born over “there” to “them”, we would have inherited their views, whoever they are. So we tend to be a product of our inheritance, generally ignorant of that which others have similarly inherited, and therein lies the problem.

. The polarization and negation of one group to another is blissful foolishness which begets storms of hatred and misunderstanding. The many Muslims I have known have all been as good and God-fearing and family oriented as the Christians I was raised amongst and the Jews I knew, and the Indians, etc.

. What Islam appears to be going through at present is parallel to the Inquisitions period of Christianity, each of which is symptomatic of spiritual collapse away from its roots or origin. It is a study in human behavior and tragedy, yet also a puzzle to be solved, one which requires an open mind and a new paradigm, as all are the children of Abraham, each believing in God’s blessings and promise.

Islam IS false. That does not really mean it will be destroyed for sure because in every human being there is Sin and there is Good. That also goes for Christians, good and bad and no one is impeccable.

Muslims who try to follow God and follow His decrees to their best of their ability, and through no fault of their own do not know Christ, can still be saved. :yup: Especially since God is Love (complete and impeccable) and He knows who really Loved and who didn’t.

But we are told to be perfect as our Heavenly Father is Perfect and that is what Christianity teaches…even to pray at all times and we are promised Jesus’ return to take His people to the Heavenly Kingdom at a time only known by the Father and Jesus (who sits at His right hand).

The human being however, has a capacity to sin and thus a human condition. However, the Truth doesn’t waver.

MJ

 

[Judas_Thaddeus]

Easy: The Bible says one thing, Islam says something different. The
New Testament is in harmony with the Old Testament, while Islam is
NOT in harmony with either the Old or New Testament.

God’s Word is reliable. It is found in the Bible, but Muslims prefer the Qur’an, say that
the Qur’an is better, that whenever the Bible says something which the Qur’an says to
the contrary, well in Islam the Qur’an is tops, over God’s word handed down through all
the Prophets and Apostles.

 

[MartinJordan]

Easy: The Bible says one thing, Islam says something different. The
New Testament is in harmony with the Old Testament, while Islam is
NOT in harmony with either the Old or New Testament.

God’s Word is reliable. It is found in the Bible, but Muslims prefer the Qur’an, say that
the Qur’an is better, that whenever the Bible says something which the Qur’an says to
the contrary, well in Islam the Qur’an is tops, over God’s word handed down through all
the Prophets and Apostles.

To me it isn’t about which Book says what because it has to be interpreted. The Church was first before the Book and the Church put this book together choosing by the help of the Holy Spirit to put the OT and NT in context. The Church’s interpretation of it thus is what the Bible “says”.

Islam thinks Christians are people of the Book. Wrong. We are people of the Person, Jesus Christ, who came from Heaven, and by the Holy Spirit came incarnate of the Virgin Mary and lived with the people suffered, died, Resurrected and Ascended into Heaven. Islam mixes this history up and thus is Wrong.

MJ

 

[Judas_Thaddeus]

To me it isn’t about which Book says what because it has to be interpreted. The Church was first before the Book and the Church put this book together choosing by the help of the Holy Spirit to put the OT and NT in context. The Church’s interpretation of it thus is what the Bible “says”.

Islam thinks Christians are people of the Book. Wrong. We are people of the Person, Jesus Christ, who came from Heaven, and by the Holy Spirit came incarnate of the Virgin Mary and lived with the people suffered, died, Resurrected and Ascended into Heaven. Islam mixes this history up and thus is Wrong.

MJ

Fascinating Concept!

 

[livingwordunity]

Question: Why is Christianity right and Islam wrong?

Answer: Jesus is alive while Muhammad is dead.

By the way, Catholicism isn’t a denomination since it is the original apostolic faith. There were a few heresies here and there in the early Church, but these were ruled out as heresies based on the fact that the heresies were not what was believed and taught by the apostles. Denominations began immediately after Luther’s Protestant revolt when everyone started to interpret the Bible for themselves and began starting their own “churches”.

See the following:
scborromeo.org/truth/truth.pdf
scborromeo.org/glad/glad.pdf

It is only how one looks at it.

Muhammad is just as much Alive as Christ is.

Did Muhammad walk on water and rise from the dead? No. Jesus is God, and that’s why he is infinitely superior to Muhammad. I posted more on another thread as follows:

Because it is right. It’s the only religion that was founded by God himself. And who in history other than Jesus Christ was able to prove he was God by all the miracles he did in front of so many especially allowing himself to die the most extremely torturous death possible and then coming back from the dead the way he did? And his scourging and death on the cross was open and on display for all to see, so there is no way that he could have faked it. Jesus also had at least 11 direct eye witnesses who were all willing to die the most brutal and torturous deaths rather than deny him because they had seen all the miracles firsthand and had become absolutely convinced that Jesus is God and has power over death. He also was the fulfillment of over 300 Old Testament messianic prophecies as follows:

forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=3166262&postcount=7
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=3166273&postcount=8
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=3166283&postcount=9
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=3166291&postcount=10
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=3166294&postcount=11
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=3166318&postcount=13

Another thing is that archeologists keep digging up a lot of things that prove that the people and places that had only been mentioned in the Holy Bible were actually real historical people and places. A couple examples off the top of my head are King David and Pontius Pilate who nonbelievers thought didn’t exist until the archeologists dug up the proof.

But I personally didn’t even need any of that to come to believe since my conversion to the Catholic faith from agnosticism had to do with personally experiencing God in my life.

By the way, when I said that Catholicism is the only religion that was founded by God himself I meant to include ancient Judaism which Catholics see as being the same religion as ours but at an earlier stage. Catholicism is the fulfillment of Judaism. There is a continuity between the two.

 

[daler]

Islam IS false. That does not really mean it will be destroyed for sure because in every human being there is Sin and there is Good. That also goes for Christians, good and bad and no one is impeccable.

Muslims who try to follow God and follow His decrees to their best of their ability, and through no fault of their own do not know Christ, can still be saved. :yup: Especially since God is Love (complete and impeccable) and He knows who really Loved and who didn’t.
MJ

Martin,
. The attempt is to address the log-jam of each religious group demonizing the ones that follow. Jews say that Christianity is false, etc. In each case, the followers of all these religions have for most part inherited certain prejudices and assumptions to such an extent that objectivity is not even in their toolbox.

. The connection with Abraham through Hagar to Ishmael is a foundation of Muslim belief, which is supported independently with credible non-Muslim historians. Yet even as the commonly held Jewish position begins with the assumption that Jesus is not their awaited Messiah for various reasons, so too, their is a position common among Christians that assumes Muhammad is not a legitimate Prophet.

. For me, after reading a few books which opened my mind I overcame my prejudices, and ultimately came to the conclusion that even as there is such a long line of Prophets accepted in Judeo-Christian traditions, it was possible to view Muhammad as yet another in this process, despite a few specific verses from the Quran which appear to be at odds with the interpretations held by many Christians.

. There remains no longer the contradictions, but rather, like pieces in a grand jig-saw puzzle, they actually fit together, along with other of the world’s religions, side by side. God is bigger than most of us allow Him to be from our limited and inherited belief traditions, and has worked through Prophets other than those in the Old and New Testament. God has not been “silent” for 2000 years, or much longer (from the Jewish traditions), but has continued to guide humanity.

 

[MartinJordan]

Martin,
. The attempt is to address the log-jam of each religious group demonizing the ones that follow. Jews say that Christianity is false, etc. In each case, the followers of all these religions have for most part inherited certain prejudices and assumptions to such an extent that objectivity is not even in their toolbox.

. The connection with Abraham through Hagar to Ishmael is a foundation of Muslim belief, which is supported independently with credible non-Muslim historians. Yet even as the commonly held Jewish position begins with the assumption that Jesus is not their awaited Messiah for various reasons, so too, their is a position common among Christians that assumes Muhammad is not a legitimate Prophet.

. For me, after reading a few books which opened my mind I overcame my prejudices, and ultimately came to the conclusion that even as there is such a long line of Prophets accepted in Judeo-Christian traditions, it was possible to view Muhammad as yet another in this process, despite a few specific verses from the Quran which appear to be at odds with the interpretations held by many Christians.

. There remains no longer the contradictions, but rather, like pieces in a grand jig-saw puzzle, they actually fit together, along with other of the world’s religions, side by side. God is bigger than most of us allow Him to be from our limited and inherited belief traditions, and has worked through Prophets other than those in the Old and New Testament. God has not been “silent” for 2000 years, or much longer (from the Jewish traditions), but has continued to guide humanity.

You are mistaken to believe that Christianity demonizes Islam. Nor does Christianity demonize Judaism. The fact is Muslims want to show that their prophet was predicted in the OT and the NT when it doesn’t. It is an invented man made belief without following context.

MJ

 

[tonyfish58]

Did Muhammad walk on water and rise from the dead? No. Jesus is God, and that’s why he is infinitely superior to Muhammad. I posted more on another thread as follows:

Basically you are asking if there is a difference between Christ and Muhammad. I would suggest may be there is if you want to find them, but…

“Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you. For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened”. Matthew 7:7-8

“You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart”. Jeremiah 29:13

“You ask and do not receive, because you ask wrongly, to spend it on your passions”. James 4:3

Regards Tony

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

Complete Revealed Truth and Shards of Truth?

If one was to stand outside both the Christian and Muslim Religion and Judge them without prejudice, both would receive the same amount of ticks for the truth they contain.

If you post a list of Truths that the Christian Faith Contains, that is not Doctrine but Scripture only. I would be happy to match examples from the Muslim and other Faiths.

Blanket statement have no weight, but only result in division. One should submit proof of such accusations. Would you not agree

Regards Tony

Im sorry but the blanket statements of bahai that we do not have the truth, Ie we deny your so called manifestation cause division. Do not act so high and mighty as if the bahai are the only ones wanting unity and everyone is evily working against it. In the mere act of belief, in the mere act of denying Jesus as God you divide yourself from Christians, to believe is to cause division.

 

[tonyfish58]

Im sorry but the blanket statements of bahai that we do not have the truth, Ie we deny your so called manifestation cause division. Do not act so high and mighty as if the bahai are the only ones wanting unity and everyone is evily working against it. In the mere act of belief, in the mere act of denying Jesus as God you divide yourself from Christians, to believe is to cause division.

To beleive does not mean there has to be division, that is a choice one makes.

It is Great to be strong in Faith an in your Love for God, well done! May we all share in this Love.

That I have a belief in Christ different from yours is only a division if one wants it to be.

Who has said any body is evilly working against Unity? Christians want all of the peoples of Earth to have Unity of thought in/through Christ and most work towards that aim, the Muslims want all of the peoples of Earth to have Unity of thought in/through Muhammad and most work towards that aim.

What we are saying is that this has it Limitations, time has proven this will not work. Centuries of wars should make that clear! This is why the Bible tells us of the End Times and what it will be like.

Thus we are offering a solution on how it can be done, this is not my solution. This solution is given as nothing but a gift of Love on our part. Remember we also try to put into practice what we preach. Is this an easy task? I will leave that up to you to draw a conclusion on

It is the same for you would you not agree? You offer Christ to us as the only way, do you do this from a high horse, or, do you have love for us and want us to share what you have?

I wish you all the best in Life and Faith.

Regards Tony

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

To beleive does not mean there has to be division, that is a choice one makes.

It is Great to be strong in Faith an in your Love for God, well done! May we all share in this Love.

That I have a belief in Christ different from yours is only a division if one wants it to be.

Who has said any body is evilly working against Unity? Christians want all of the peoples of Earth to have Unity of thought in/through Christ and most work towards that aim, the Muslims want all of the peoples of Earth to have Unity of thought in/through Muhammad and most work towards that aim.

What we are saying is that this has it Limitations, time has proven this will not work. Centuries of wars should make that clear! This is why the Bible tells us of the End Times and what it will be like.

Thus we are offering a solution on how it can be done, this is not my solution. This solution is given as nothing but a gift of Love on our part. Remember we also try to put into practice what we preach. Is this an easy task? I will leave that up to you to draw a conclusion on

It is the same for you would you not agree? You offer Christ to us as the only way, do you do this from a high horse, or, do you have love for us and want us to share what you have?

I wish you all the best in Life and Faith.

Regards Tony

In our world tony there are things called contradictions, and a contradiction cannot exist. Christians and Muslims and bahais cannot all be right, one must be wrong. In believing, that is accepting a certain proposition you deny the alternatives, just as you believing in bahai is a denial of Christianity. You will of course deny this and say we have simply misunderstood Christianity, in which case you make your point for me all the more.

That being said, when it comes to Christ and division he is quite clear. He did not come to bring unity, he came to divide the sheep and the goats, he will divide the sheep and the goats, of course this is antithetical to bahai teaching. Christ recognised there would be those whom would deny him like the bahai and the muslims (in that you deny who he really is) and thus he commanded us to have no communion with you. The apostles started this precedent when the admonished the paganism and then later the Judaism around them, they separated themselves from both of these communities because the truth was more important. So what can you possibly mean by, “That I have a belief in Christ different from yours is only a division if one wants it to be”?

We have no choice but to be divided. Will you admit that Jesus is the focal point of salvation? That he was the one who died for us and we need nothing of Mirza Hussain’s actions to be saved? That he is the creator of the universal given all power and authority on heaven and on earth? No, you would tell me I have misunderstood these parts of the New testament and then urge me to believe in your interpretation. In that very action you demonstrate yourself why there has to be division because one of us believes a thing that the other denies. We cannot worship together (because I worship God the trinity, something bahais and muslims deny), We cannot say we have the same God (Because I believe God came down in the flesh, something bahais and muslims deny). I take my salvation and forgiveness of sins from Jesus, you take it Mirza Hussain.

The mere act of believing any one thing will divide people.

 

[daler]

The mere act of believing any one thing will divide people.

Very good insight, Ignatian. I applaud you most sincerely.

(Matthew 10:34-36) - "Do not think that I came to bring peace on the earth; I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. “For I came to set a man against his father, and a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and a man’s enemies will be the members of his household.”

(Luke 12:51,52) - “Do you suppose that I came to grant peace on earth? I tell you, no, but rather division; for from now on five members in one household will be divided, three against two, and two against three…”

. and further…

Revelation 19:15 . “And out of his mouth proceedeth a sharp two-edged sword, that with it he may strike the nations. And he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness of the wrath of God the Almighty.”

. “Out of his mouth goeth a two-edged sword.”

. "Know thou that since the sword is an instrument that divideth and cleaveth asunder, and since there proceedeth from the mouth of the Prophets and the Chosen Ones of God that which separateth the believer from the infidel and the lover from the beloved, this term hath been so employed, and apart from this dividing and separating no other meaning is intended.

. Thus, when He Who is the Primal Point and the eternal Sun desireth, by the leave of God, to gather together all creation, to raise them up from the graves of their own selves, and to divide them one from another, He shall pronounce but one verse from Him, and this verse will distinguish truth from error from this day unto the Day of Resurrection. What sword is sharper than this heavenly sword, what blade more trenchant than this incorruptible steel that severeth every tie and separateth thereby the believer from the infidel, father from son, brother from sister, and lover from beloved?

. For whoso believeth in that which hath been revealed unto him is a true believer and whoso turneth away is an infidel, and such an irrevocable separation occurreth between them that they will cease to consort and associate with each other in this world. And so it is between father and son, for should the son believe and the father deny, they will be severed and forever dissociated from each other. Nay rather, thou witnesseth how the son slayeth the father and the father the son. Consider in the same light all that We have explained and related unto thee."

Baha’u’llah Gems of Divine Mysteries
reference.bahai.org/en/t/b/GDM/gdm-4.html

 

[fathercome]

Im sorry but the blanket statements of bahai that we do not have the truth, Ie we deny your so called manifestation cause division. Do not act so high and mighty as if the bahai are the only ones wanting unity and everyone is evily working against it. In the mere act of belief, in the mere act of denying Jesus as God you divide yourself from Christians, to believe is to cause division.

The Christian belief itself is disuniting (from a historical perspective only if you wish) because it excludes Muslims as having an equal Faith with Christianity. Baha’i already believe the Bible and Qur’an are both sent from the same God.

 

[IgnatianPhilo]

The Christian belief itself is disuniting (from a historical perspective only if you wish) because it excludes Muslims as having an equal Faith with Christianity. Baha’i already believe the Bible and Qur’an are both sent from the same God.

The bahai faith in its mere existence is another division. if Unity is the most important thing the bahai faith should have united all of these faiths but it hasn’t. Instead when the bahai say others are wrong they set themselves against people as Christians and muslims and athiests and everyone inbetween set themselves against people they say are wrong. I have never believed the main point of Christianity was to unite all the world, that may be a good result possibly but it was not Christ’s intent. Christ’s intent was to divide, to make known those who follow him and those who follow the world. He did not accept paganism and unity to it as the apostles did not accept paganism and unity to it. Truth is more important than unity, division against falsehood is much more holy than unity for unitys sake.

 

[fathercome]

but it was not Christ’s intent. Christ’s intent was to divide, to make known those who follow him and those who follow the world. … Truth is more important than unity, division against falsehood is much more holy than unity for unitys sake.

Exactly, this is my point! Thank you dear friend. The purpose of Christ was not to bring the different peoples together. Neither was it Islam’s main point. Islam believes in peace and unity within Islam only as well.

 

[MartinJordan]

Truth is more important than unity, division against falsehood is much more holy than unity for unitys sake.

I can agree with this.

Of course there is the matter of Gifts and Fruits of the Holy Spirit when conveying the Truth. Praise God for that.

MJ