Why is Islam wrong?

[Reuben_J]

Asalam Alaykum De Maria,

Thanks for the choice of phrase. Turn around is fair play. I haven’t heard this much in my corner of the US. Maybe it’s a regional thing. Any how I know quite well the objections that Muslims and Protestants have in regards to the Catholic veneration of saints as I at one time was a Catholic for many years. I was a cradle Catholic. I too at one time prayed your Rosary, etc. So I can see from both your point and the Muslim point. I do admit though when I was a Catholic I never once made the statement that Muslims worship the Kabaa or anything other than Allah “God” alone. Have a blessed day De Maria.

Ali

Hi Ali

Whether you agree with it or not, the Kaaba is an important aspect of Islamic ritual. Millions of Muslims who make their pilgrimage center their external activities on this piece of stone. It may not be worship. It may not be in the Quran. Nevertheless the practice is there - the Kaaba.

If Kaaba is not important, I challenge the Muslims to burn this atrocious idol! After all you don’t do idol worship. The Kaaba has no place in your religion. Go then, and get rid of it. Amazing why Mohammad did not; why he left this stone behind and destroyed the other statues!?? Was it because so that the Kaaba must stand supreme? Well, I don’t know, but it is certainly not right.

So, be careful when you want to impose certain standard on others, as it can be very well applies to you.

I am sorry if this sound a bit candid. Please feel welcome to the forum anyway.
You know, that how it is, when it comes to discussion on topic like this.

May God bless you.

 

[Greg72]

Lying in Islam

The implications of the principle of Al-Takeyya

…Unfortunately, when dealing with Muslims, one must keep in mind that Muslims can communicate something with apparent sincerity, when in reality they may have just the opposite agenda in their hearts. Bluntly stated, Islam permits Muslims to lie anytime that they perceive that their own well-being, or that of Islam, is threatened.

Hold on, before you commit an ignorance sin and make millions and millions of Muslims as punch of liars.
See the mistake you have committed is simple, you are trying to explain one specific concept…“Takiya” that is not unique to Islam but if you read the Torah you can see it’s applications in similar ways

That’s one of the reasons why Islam is a huge step backwards. Besides, I doubt that Jews ever feel it necessary to misrepresent their faith.

Our Lord Jesus Christ was a devout Jew who reached out to all sorts of people he wasn’t supposed to and did all sorts of things he wasn’t supposed to do (according to those who were living by the letter of the law). He is the fullfillment of the Torah and showed us all how we are to live.

Who was Muhammed? What changes did he bring about? How is Islam progressive? After Christ, what progress was necessary?

and then you turn around and applied to all times, all places and to all Muslims and make us all liers.

Whether or not you are liars, it is important to be aware of the possibility.

That is is dishonesty, you don’t like Islam or Muslims,

Nonsense. One can be suspicious of someone and not dislike them.

taught but don’t make up things that are not true and don’t misrepresent it either.

Get your facts and knowledge straight.

That’s the funny thing about Al-Takeyya - just because you say that we have our facts wrong doesn’t necessarily make it so.

I, for one, am glad that Booklover shared this information with us. I knew about it before, but too many people still don’t.

Peace be with you,

-Greg

 

[De_Maria]

Hi

The black stone is not even mentioned in Quran, so there is no question of worshipping it. There is not a single Muslim who would say that he worships this black stone, it is just for marking purposes from centuries.

Thanks

But again, you claim we worship statues because of our behavior before them.

So, you must worship the blackstone because of your behavior before it.

 

[De_Maria]

Asalam Alaykum De Maria,

Thanks for the choice of phrase. Turn around is fair play. I haven’t heard this much in my corner of the US. Maybe it’s a regional thing. Any how I know quite well the objections that Muslims and Protestants have in regards to the Catholic veneration of saints as I at one time was a Catholic for many years. I was a cradle Catholic. I too at one time prayed your Rosary, etc. So I can see from both your point and the Muslim point. I do admit though when I was a Catholic I never once made the statement that Muslims worship the Kabaa or anything other than Allah “God” alone. Have a blessed day De Maria.

Ali

Its too bad that you are no longer Catholic. Let me ask you, why do you believe Mohammed when there is no evidence that he ever saw an angel. I’m pretty sure, if any man came to you today with a fantastic story that he had seen an angel, you would ask for proof. So why accept Mohammed’s tale without proof?

And Mohammed made up so many lies for his convenience? Like the one he made up to take his nephew’s wife? Or the fact he gave himself so many exceptions because he claimed to be “Allah’s prophet”?

Sincerely,

De Maria

 

[Trajik]

Asalam Alaykum Rueben J,

I trust you day was blessed.

Please don’t apologize for your candid remarks. They were true from you. I respect your cadid way my good friend.

Muslims kiss the black stone in Kabaa during the hajj to show their respect to a holly object simply put.

We don’t worship it. In regards to the other statements of burning it down etc. I defer not to bicker on the subject. I know that you have your beliefs and I have my beliefs. I respect your thoughts, though they differ from mine.

I used to be Catholic. I remember sitting in front of the montrance (I hope I spelled it out correctly). It was supposed to be Jesus Peace be upon him. I always wondered why only 3 or so ever showed up. I remember kissing the painting of Our Lady of Guadalupe. I remember seeing the Bread and Wine as being the body and blood of Jesus peace be upon him. I can remember quited vividly why I was doing this. It just didn’t seem right.

kind regards,
Ali

 

[Trajik]

Asalam Alaykum De Maria,

I will be glad to tell you more about why I believe Islam is correct but unfortunately I have a class to attend to in a bit here. Be sure perhaps I will PM you later Insha’allah. If not tomorrow by the will of Allah. Enjoy your evening good friend.

Kind regards,
Ali

 

[De_Maria]

Asalam Alaykum Rueben J,

I trust you day was blessed.

Yes, thank you.

Please don’t apologize for your candid remarks. They were true from you. I respect your cadid way my good friend.

Again, thank you.

Muslims kiss the black stone in Kabaa during the hajj to show their respect to a holly object simply put.

What does “holy object” mean to you? And are there any other “holy objects” revered by Muslims?

We don’t worship it. In regards to the other statements of burning it down etc.

Burning “it” down? Muslims burned the QURAN. There is no bickering there. Muslims admit they burned the original Quran so that no one could ever compare it to Uthman’s copy.

Hudhaifa bin Al-Yaman came to Uthman at the time when the people of Sham and the people of Iraq were Waging war to conquer Arminya and Adharbijan. Hudhaifa was afraid of their (the people of Sham and Iraq) differences in the recitation of the Qur’an, so he said to 'Uthman, “O chief of the Believers! Save this nation before they differ about the Book (Quran) …” So 'Uthman sent a message to Hafsa saying, “Send us the manuscripts of the Qur’an so that we may compile the Qur’anic materials in perfect copies and return the manuscripts to you.” Hafsa sent it to 'Uthman. 'Uthman then ordered Zaid bin Thabit, 'Abdullah bin AzZubair, Said bin Al-As and 'AbdurRahman bin Harith bin Hisham to rewrite the manuscripts in perfect copies. 'Uthman said to the three Quraishi men, “In case you disagree with Zaid bin Thabit on any point in the Qur’an, then write it in the dialect of Quraish, the Qur’an was revealed in their tongue.” They did so, and when they had written many copies, 'Uthman returned the original manuscripts to Hafsa. 'Uthman sent to every Muslim province one copy of what they had copied, and ordered that all the other Qur’anic materials, whether written in fragmentary manuscripts or whole copies, be burnt. …"
Bukhari: vol. 6, hadith 510, pp. 478-479; book 61

I defer not to bicker on the subject. I know that you have your beliefs and I have my beliefs.

Do you believe the hadith? They record the history of faulty memorization and burning of the Quran. So you don’t have to believe me. I’m only telling you what Muslims admit.

I respect your thoughts, though they differ from mine.

I respect yours as well.

I used to be Catholic. I remember sitting in front of the montrance (I hope I spelled it out correctly). It was supposed to be Jesus Peace be upon him. I always wondered why only 3 or so ever showed up.

The monstrance is the object which hold the Holy Eucharist. The Holy Eucharist is the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ.

Eucharistic adoration is not a required devotion. It is when we eat this Bread and drink this Cup that we proclaim Jesus death until He comes:

1 Corinthians 11:26
For as often as you shall eat this bread, and drink the chalice, you shall shew the death of the Lord, until he come.

I remember kissing the painting of Our Lady of Guadalupe.

A true miracle as opposed to Mohammed’s fake miracles. Note that the mantle still exists and that it has been studied by scientists who can’t explain its longevity nor composition.

I remember seeing the Bread and Wine as being the body and blood of Jesus peace be upon him. I can remember quited vividly why I was doing this. It just didn’t seem right.

I left the Catholic faith as a young boy. I guess I was about 13. And I remember the same feelings as you are mentioning.

Then, after about 15 years, I came back and I began to study the various faiths. Islam was one of them. Someone whom I respect and love became a Muslim. But the fact that no one could confirm Mohammed’s supposed meeting with an angel. And the fact that he taught people the virtue of lying under certain circumstances. Plus the fact that he claimed that Allah had given him a message that his nephew should divorce his wife, then he married her and then he divorced her and returned her to his nephew.

That, right there, is the description of a self serving charlatan.

But Jesus miracles were witnessed. Even the Quran admits Jesus performed true miracles. Jesus raised the dead. Jesus cured the blind. Jesus healed the sick. And then He did what He proved He could do. The Heavenly Physician healed Himself. He raised Himself from the dead. I can believe these because of the vast evidence presented for Jesus case.

Mohammed and Islam have nil. Nada.

kind regards,
Ali

Sincerely,

De Maria

 

[paarsurrey]

Even the Quran admits Jesus performed true miracles. Jesus raised the dead.

Hi

The Quran/Islam/Muhammad meant that Jesus raised/cured the near-dead and temporary blind with medicines and prayers. That is what every ProphetMessenger does with the commandment of GodAllahYHWH.

Muhammad also raised the spiritual dead.

Quran
[8:21] O ye who believe! obey Allah and His Messenger, and do not turn away from him while you hear his commands.
[8:22] And be not like those who say, ‘We hear,’ but they hear not.
[8:23] Surely, the worst of beasts in the sight of Allah are the deaf and the dumb, who have no sense.
[8:24] And if Allah had known any good in them, He would certainly have made them hear. And if He now makes them hear, they will turn away in aversion.
[8:25] O ye who believe! respond to Allah, and the Messenger when he calls you that he may give you life, and know that Allah comes in between a man and his heart, and that He it is unto Whom you will be gathered.
Unquote

Thanks

 

[Trajik]

Asalam Alaykum De Maria,

In regards to your question on the Hadith. Yes, I believe the hadith is correct in it’s entirety though. It seems some of the hadith was left out. I am sure just to save some space. Here is the full hadith.

Volume 6, Book 61, Number 510:
Narrated Anas bin Malik:

Hudhaifa bin Al-Yaman came to Uthman at the time when the people of Sham and the people of Iraq were Waging war to conquer Arminya and Adharbijan. Hudhaifa was afraid of their (the people of Sham and Iraq) differences in the recitation of the Qur’an, so he said to 'Uthman, “O chief of the Believers! Save this nation before they differ about the Book (Quran) as Jews and th******e Christians did before.” **So 'Uthman sent a message to Hafsa saying, “Send us the manuscripts of the Qur’an so that we may compile the Qur’anic materials in perfect copies and return the manuscripts to you.” Hafsa sent it to 'Uthman. 'Uthman then ordered Zaid bin Thabit, 'Abdullah bin AzZubair, Said bin Al-As and 'AbdurRahman bin Harith bin Hisham to rewrite the manuscripts in perfect copies. 'Uthman said to the three Quraishi men, “In case you disagree with Zaid bin Thabit on any point in the Qur’an, then write it in the dialect of Quraish, the Qur’an was revealed in their tongue.” They did so, and when they had written many copies, 'Uthman returned the original manuscripts to Hafsa. 'Uthman sent to every Muslim province one copy of what they had copied, and ordered that all the other Qur’anic materials, whether written in fragmentary manuscripts or whole copies, be burnt. Said bin Thabit added, "A Verse from Surat Ahzab was missed by me when we copied the Qur’an and I used to hear Allah’s Apostle reciting it. So we searched for it and found it with Khuzaima bin Thabit Al-Ansari. (That Verse was): ‘Among the Believers are men who have been true in their covenant with Allah.’ (33.23)

To comment a bit:

Just to clear it up a bit. Islam has a clear chain of transmitters of the Qur’an. At that time the Qur’an was only written on small parchments, bones, skins etc. The Qur’an was memorized by recited for the most part. Qur’an = Recitation.

When Abu Bakr, may Allaah be pleased with him, became Caliph after the Prophet sallallaahu 'alayhi wa sallam died, a large number of the Companions were killed during the War of Apostasy. 'Umar Ibn Al-Khattaab, may Allaah be pleased with him, went to the Caliph and discussed the idea of compiling the Quran into one volume. He was disturbed, as most of those who memorised it had died. Then, Abu Bakr, may Allaah be pleased with him, called for Zayd and commissioned him to collect the Quran into one book, which became known as the ‘Mus-haf.’

During the Caliphate of 'Uthmaan, may Allaah be pleased with him, Islam reached many countries, and readers began to recite the Quran in different ways (dialects). 'Uthmaan, may Allaah be pleased with him, then had various copies made and sent them out to the different Muslim lands, lest these dialects would cause alterations to the Quran, and kept the original copy with Hafsah, may Allaah be pleased with her. Thus, the Quran remained preserved and the Caliph was very much pleased with his achievement.

Today, every copy of the Quran conforms with the standard copy of 'Uthmaan, may Allaah be pleased with him. In fact, Muslims over the ages excelled in producing the best manuscripts of the Noble Quran in the most wonderful handwriting. With the introduction of printing, more and more editions of the Noble Quran became available all over the world.

I hope this helps clarify our position. You of course have your position and we ours.

"The monstrance is the object which hold the Holy Eucharist. The Holy Eucharist is the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Jesus Christ. "

Elaborte this more to me if you will. It houses the Body of Jesus? I can actually touch him?
It houses his blood? It actually courses through his body in the monstrance?
It houses his Divinity? Divinity meaning for Catholic dictionary:
The attribute of being divine. In an absolute sense only the infinite God is divine.
It is God? If so and you are Catholic why would anyone not go and see God housed in the monstrance?
I am not being flipant or sarcastic in this. Just asking follow up questions.

In regards to miracles. Many of Allahs prophets including Jesus Peace be upon him performed miracles. ie Moses, Elijah etc. The Qur’an is the miracle. In Islam we dont need any external amazing miracles to know that Allah is One and only one and to submit to his holy will. We do as the prophets called man to do. Worship God alone as Abraham, Noah, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad Peace be upon them all called mankind to do.

Your story is interesting. Thanks for sharing it with me and your views that led you back to your faith.

kind regards,
Ali

 

[De_Maria]

Hi

The Quran/Islam/Muhammad meant that Jesus raised/cured the near-dead and temporary blind with medicines and prayers.

But the Quran is a false book composed of Mohammed’s false sayings. And Islam is based on the Quran, thus it is based on false prophecy. And Mohammed is a false prophet.

That is what every ProphetMessenger does with the commandment of GodAllahYHWH.

John 6:
29 Jesus answered, and said to them: This is the work of God, that you believe in him whom he hath sent. 30 They said therefore to him: What sign therefore dost thou shew, that we may see, and may believe thee? What dost thou work?
31 Our fathers did eat manna in the desert, as it is written: He gave them bread from heaven to eat. 32 Then Jesus said to them: Amen, amen I say to you; Moses gave you not bread from heaven, but my Father giveth you the true bread from heaven. 33 For the bread of God is that which cometh down from heaven, and giveth life to the world. 34 They said therefore unto him: Lord, give us always this bread. 35 And Jesus said to them: I am the bread of life: he that cometh to me shall not hunger: and he that believeth in me shall never thirst.

Sincerely,

De Maia

 

[ralphinal]

Hi

The Quran/Islam/Muhammad meant that Jesus raised/cured the near-dead and temporary blind with medicines and prayers. That is what every ProphetMessenger does with the commandment of GodAllahYHWH.

What about Lazarus? He was not near-dead, he was dead.

John 11:14-15

Then Jesus told them plainly, “Lazarus is dead; and for your sake I am glad that I was not there, so that you may believe. But let us go to him.”

John 11:17 tells us that Lazerus had been in the tomb for four days.

John 11:21-25 Martha, Lazarus’s sister told Jesus that if he had been there Lazarus would not have died. Jesus tells her that Lazarus will rise again. She agrees that he will on the last day.

John 11:25-26

Jesus said to her, “I am the resurrection and the life, he who beleives in me, though he die, yet shall he live and whoever lives and beleives in me shall never die. Do you believe this?”

Skip ahead a little to John 11:32, Mary says the same thing, had Jesus been there, Lazarus would not have died.

He went to the tomb, had the stone rolled back, and in John 11:43, He called Lazarus to come out of the tomb, and in 11:44, he did!

Jesus raised the dead on other occasions, but this one is the most dramatic. Lazarus was not nearly dead or unconcious. He was, as we say in the south, dead as a doornail. Did Muhammed ever raise someone in the tomb for days?

 

[Valke2]

So what happened to Lazuras after? Are there any writings on it?

 

[De_Maria]

So what happened to Lazuras after? Are there any writings on it?

St. Lazarus of Bethany:
%between%newadvent.org/cathen/09097a.htm
serfes.org/lives/stlazarus.htm

Sincerely,

De Maria

 

[Valke2]

Thanks. I never knew he was made into a saint.

 

[paarsurrey]

So what happened to Lazuras after? Are there any writings on it?

Hi

It is a good question.

Everybody, all human beings without exception, who is born in this world dies once and is resurrected only in the hereafter. Those who believe that somebody got resurrected from the physical dead or raised by somebody ( Jesus or Elijah) should provide full account of life of such raised person, if they don’t have it then they should get themselves corrected.

Either they should believe that they were not medically dead but were near-dead and with medicine or prayer they resussicated their lost breath or they should believe that they were only spiritually raised, it was a metaphoric phenomenon.

When did Lazarus die again? or is he is still alive?

I think it is reasonable.

Thanks

 

[Reuben_J]

Hi

Either they should believe that they were not medically dead but were near-dead and with medicine or prayer they resussicated their lost breath or they should believe that they were only spiritually raised, it was a metaphoric phenomenon.

When did Lazarus die again? or is he is still alive?

I think it is reasonable.

Thanks

This is from the site serfes.org/lives/stlazarus.htm given by De Maria.

*But this last visit that Christ paid to Lazarus home was not an ordinary one. The two sisters had informed Christ that their sick brother was dying: “Lord, behold; he whom thou lovest is sick”. And the Lord declares that, “this sickness is not unto death but for the glory of God”, is delayed two days and then He sets out for Bethany where He arrives four days after Lazarus’ burial. Jesus “groaned in the spirit” and “wept”; then He stood before the tomb and - being the master of life and death - He restored Lazarus to life, despite the fact that “he had been dead four days” and was already stinking (John 11:1-44).

Later, Lazarus was compelled to seek refuge in Kition, Cyprus, to avoid the anger of the high priests and the pharisees, who wanted to kill him: Really, “the chief priests consulted that they might put Lazarus also to death; because that by reason of him many of the Jews went away, and believed on Jesus” (John 12:1011). Probably, Lazarus left his country when many Christians of Judea “which were scattered abroad upon the persecution that arose about Stephen traveled as far as Phoenicia, and Cyprus, and Antioch…” (Acts 11:19).

Christ wept for Lazarus because He loved him and his family very much; this was, a great privilege for him. At the same time, Larnaca was also privileged to become Lazarus’s native town, a second Bethany. **Here he was met by the Apostles Paul and Barnabas on their missionary journey to Cyprus and according to tradition, he was ordained by them as the first Bishop of Kition. That’s why all the episcopal thrones in the churches of Larnaca bear the icon of St. Lazarus instead of that of Christ, as it is the custom in the Orthodox Church.

Here he lived thirty more years, and here he was buried for the second and last time. On his tomb Leo VI the Wise, Emperor of Byzantium, erected, 1100 years ago, the magnificent church, in Byzantine style, we see today***.

 

[Rodrigo_Bivar]

Trajik,
Hafsa’s Quran is not the same as the Uthmanic Recension. Zayd had to modify it to Uthman’s satisfaction. Many verses were added and some were missing - for instance the verses of stoning and suckling. There were some surahs that were longer before but now shorter.

The numbering and ordering was done by Zayd and Uthman. All these prove the Quran is not as imutable as Muslims like to believe or make other people believe.

The sahih hadiths contain many references to changes in the Quran.

 

[paarsurrey]

The sahih hadiths contain many references to changes in the Quran.

Hi

A sahih ( correct or trustworth) hadith is that which is not against what is written in Quran, if it does it is not considered sahih ( correct or trustworthy) unless it is interpreted in such a way that it conforms with what is written in Quan.

Quran is Word of GodAllahYHWH and the supreme means of guidance.

Thanks

 

[Rbt_Southwell]

Islam is wrong because the Koran is a perversion of a Syrio-Aramaic lectionary.

When Mohammed ‘claimed’ to have received the Koran (a mistranslation of the word for ‘Lectionary’) Arabic was NOT a written language. When the Koran was put in writing (decades after Mohammed’s death), the vowels [diacritical marks] were added. Thus (to put it simply) ‘bk’ became ‘book’ when it may have been ‘bake.’

That is why there are so many goofy suras (nonsensical) and why so much of the Koran has hints of Jewish (through the OT) and Catholic (through the Gospels and Letters) theology.

A modern version of what happened during and after Mohammed’s time is the mormon movement in the early 1830s in New York. Angel visits Prophet; only Prophet gets revelation; all other (i.e., Jewish and Catholic) religions in apostasy; every word is directly from God/Allah/YHWH.

Of course, mormons and islamists decry any efforts to objectively look at their claimed “salvation history” claiming those people who attempt to do so are in violation of God’s law.

Robert

 

[Reuben_J]

Hi

A sahih ( correct or trustworth) hadith is that which is not against what is written in Quran, if it does it is not considered sahih ( correct or trustworthy) unless it is interpreted in such a way that it conforms with what is written in Quan.

Quran is Word of GodAllahYHWH and the supreme means of guidance.

Thanks

Just curious. What about when the verses in the Quran itself are against the earlier verses?