Why is it better to be Catholic?

[Pup7]

Here’s the deal. If you will explain specifically WHAT IT IS that the Catholic Church does to cause us to receive Jesus and the salvation that He provides, then I will show you exactly what I mean by a man-centered “gospel” message.

Nothing like making one’s argument contingent on proof of a point offered by another.

Know who does that? Parents. We’re not kids. Either you have a point, or you don’t. But setting people up - or attempting to set people up (because that’s what this looks like - an attempt at some sort of backhanded entrapment) isn’t how you make a point.

The five solas aren’t stated in the Bible (except for the one ML put there)…but I guess that’s none of my business.

 

[deMontfort]

nogames:

Here’s the deal. If you will explain specifically WHAT IT IS that the Catholic Church does to cause us to receive Jesus and the salvation that He provides, then I will show you exactly what I mean by a man-centered “gospel” message.

Nothing like making one’s argument contingent on proof of a point offered by another.

Know who does that? Parents. We’re not kids. Either you have a point, or you don’t. But setting people up - or attempting to set people up (because that’s what this looks like - an attempt at some sort of backhanded entrapment) isn’t how you make a point.

The five solas aren’t stated in the Bible (except for the one ML put there)…but I guess that’s none of my business.

Actually, I can smell the Calvinist proof-texting coming from a mile away. “Man centered” is one of those Calvinist buzzwords used in opposition to the Calvinist position of “monergism”.

You’re right to smell a set-up. He’s not even being subtle about it.

 

[Pup7]

I’ve suspected it for days now and just thought, yep, I’m going there. Because it’s wearing thin.

I’m not as well-versed (lol) in this stuff as a lot of folks…I knew it was a buzzword but I couldn’t place what for. I’m learning quick, though.

 

[deMontfort]

I’ve had a LOT of exposure to Calvinists…hence why I try not to associate with them if I can all help it

 

[Pup7]

LOL. You’d think as an ex-Methodist I’d be more up on it than I am.

 

[deMontfort]

Except Methodists ain’t Calvinist Methodism is practically completely Arminian in theology.

 

[Pup7]

The MC is a direct rejection of Calvinism, and I know that, which is why I said I should know more about it.

 

[nogames]

Huh…you do not know what the Catholic Church does? It is out in the open…it baptizes, teaches us to live lives free of sin…and to go and worship Him and receive Him worthily…so what is man-centered about this? `

Are you saying that to receive Jesus and be saved, we need the Catholic Church to baptize us and to teach us these things? If this is what you’re saying, then how did you come to know this? Are there any other churches that baptize and teach these things?

 

[Pup7]

pablope:

Huh…you do not know what the Catholic Church does? It is out in the open…it baptizes, teaches us to live lives free of sin…and to go and worship Him and receive Him worthily…so what is man-centered about this? `

Are you saying that to receive Jesus and be saved, we need the Catholic Church to baptize us and to teach us these things? If this is what you’re saying, then how did you come to know this? Are there any other churches that baptize and teach these things?

You’re on a Catholic forum. The majority of us here are going to tell you “yes” to the former and “no” to the latter. Why you expect another response is beyond me. It’s a simple question for us, really.

I seem to remember hearing this in my grandmother’s Baptist church as well on more than one occasion - that the only way to be “saved” was by “asking Jesus into your heart” and that Catholics were clueless on the matters of faith, justification, grace, works, and salvation. “Just ask Jesus into your heart and everything will be okay, you’re forgiven if you ask for it, and that’s all you have to do” (which is written nowhere, and yet they laugh at us for Confession). I didn’t agree then and I don’t agree now. And I don’t need an apologetics talent to tell you why: because it’s illogical. It simply doesn’t make sense.

Be careful where you’re treading, unless you want to start quoting irrefutable and point blank references to the five solas.

Which we all know you can’t.

How did I come to know this?

I studied it. I considered it. I investigated it. This entire thread has been about how any of us who profess the Catholic faith have come to know this - especially converts. We weren’t born into it. We learned it.

And I’m still shaking my head here because if you’re saying that believing the Catholic Church is needed to teach us these things is “man centered”, then you need to rethink your strategy - because that’s the equivalent of saying every other church does the same thing.

We’re not sola scriptura (which is where I see this going), so you’re not going to get that out of us. We don’t believe in scripture only, and even as a Protestant I didn’t buy that either.

 

[Crocus]

This is my very first exposure to the terms monergism and Arminianism. Something to be aware of, being just a regular cradle Catholic.

Don’t suppose you know of a comparison chart?

 

[deMontfort]

There’s one in the Wiki article on Arminianism:

Arminianism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Crocus]

@deMontfort
Your link is enlightening and mind boggling. Can’t presume I will ever comprehend the subtle and diverse positions of the innumerable non-Catholic denominations. Reason enough, that it is “better to be Catholic.” I kept thinking:

1 Corinthians 1: 11-13 (paraphrased)
“… each of you says, “I belong to Calvin,” or “I belong to Arminius,” or “I belong to Grotius,”

Instead, “I belong to Christ” who established his church 2000 years ago and set the barque afloat, with Peter at the helm, under the guidance of the Holy Spirit.

 

[MichaelP3]

Well…

Why did you even ask me those questions and asserted Christianity isn’t for me based upon something I have absolutely no idea what your intention was in posting in the first place.

You got my reply to who I was posting wrong.
You got my point wrong.
You asserted many things based upon something I did not say.

So to make it short; I have no idea what you are attempting to get at in that post to me.

Regards

 

[MichaelP3]

Yup.

But then it is said that it wasn’t “created” but “developed” later on.

 

[Reuben_J]

It is amazing the lengths that people will go to “prove” the existence of purgatory. You are quoting St. Paul, who isn’t discussing anything having to do with purifying us, and then you quote a verse from a non-inspired source that likewise has nothing at all to do with the Catholic teaching of purgation.

Can you tell us what is Catholic teaching on purgatory that you deny here? What is it? I like to know what you object to.

Thanks.

 

[Reuben_J]

margaret42:

What are the beliefs of “the way”?

I can only assume that since they were getting their instruction from the apostles, they were getting the pure gospel truths, free from all of the unbiblical stuff that was added later by the Catholic Church. The earliest churches had no concept of a papacy, purgatory, indulgences, or transubstantiation, for example.

If you just assume, then there is no certainty to it. Anybody can assume.

It is good for you to explain what “the Way” is, which you mentioned to support your assertion and which you are asked to explain. Do you know who these people were and what they believe? Who were they? When did they exist? Can you provide maybe some source to back your claim?

 

[pablope]

pablope:

Huh…you do not know what the Catholic Church does? It is out in the open…it baptizes, teaches us to live lives free of sin…and to go and worship Him and receive Him worthily…so what is man-centered about this? `

Are you saying that to receive Jesus and be saved, we need the Catholic Church to baptize us and to teach us these things? If this is what you’re saying, then how did you come to know this? Are there any other churches that baptize and teach these things?

I have responded…but you have not proferred any “man-centered” doctrine yet…so we are all waiting.

I am saying you need the Church…that Jesus established…because that is what is has always been…since the time of the Apostles…but the CC does not deny that other churches can offer graces.

There are many churches that teach something similar to what the Catholic Church has taught since the time of Peter…but the question is…is it the right gospel and the full gospel from the Apostles?

Again…where is your example of a man-centered doctrine? You seem to be running away from providing at least one.

 

[nogames]

I have responded…but you have not proferred any “man-centered” doctrine yet…so we are all waiting.

I am saying you need the Church…that Jesus established…because that is what is has always been…since the time of the Apostles…but the CC does not deny that other churches can offer graces.

There are many churches that teach something similar to what the Catholic Church has taught since the time of Peter…but the question is…is it the right gospel and the full gospel from the Apostles?

Again…where is your example of a man-centered doctrine? You seem to be running away from providing at least one.

Your response was just more Catholic talking points in which you were careful not to give anything specific regarding the question I asked. My question is this: How do we receive Jesus, and the salvation that He provides?

Your response: I am saying you need the Church…that Jesus established…because that is what is has always been…since the time of the Apostles…but the CC does not deny that other churches can offer graces.

Is this your answer?

 

[Pup7]

Ah, we’re back to baiting and avoiding every single question that’s been posed to you.

 

[nogames]

It is good for you to explain what “the Way” is, which you mentioned to support your assertion and which you are asked to explain. Do you know who these people were and what they believe? Who were they? When did they exist? Can you provide maybe some source to back your claim?

If you are willing to consider Scripture as a reliable source, here are a few references to “The Way”.

Acts 9:2 and asked him for letters to the synagogues at Damascus, so that if he found any belonging to the Way, men or women, he might bring them bound to Jerusalem.
Acts 19:9 But when some became stubborn and continued in unbelief, speaking evil of the Way before the congregation, he withdrew from them and took the disciples with him, reasoning daily in the hall of Tyrannus.
Acts 19:23 About that time there arose no little disturbance concerning the Way.
Acts 24:14 But this I confess to you, that according to the Way, which they call a sect, I worship the God of our fathers, believing everything laid down by the Law and written in the Prophets,
Acts 24:22 But Felix, having a rather accurate knowledge of the Way, put them off, saying, “When Lysias the tribune comes down, I will decide your case.”