Why is it that Protestants question everything?

[O.S.Luke]

Because if you know the history, why do you follow John Wesley when Jesus never commanded him to start his own church?

I follow the same person that John Wesley, Augustine, Thomas Aquinas, and C.S. Lewis followed. Christ Jesus.

In the area I grew up, there wasn’t a Catholic Church within 30 miles, and I grew up in a college town. There isn’t one near me now. Where were you? And where are you?

Why do you follow another when you know that Catholics have been around since Jesus? Must be that Jesus started the Catholic church.

There were splits before 1517, Benedict. Fault on both sides (to quote a former Pope). In a perfect world, we would all belong to the Church Catholic. It is not a perfect world.

Pax vobiscum,

O+

 

[Benedict16]

It’s not the questions that bother me. It’s the refusal to listen to the answers.

I have a protestant friend who has decided that she knows better about everything in christianity. She refuses to celebrate Christmas because it isn’t really Christ’s birthday, and she believes she’s the only one that realizes this. Same with Easter. She throws out a lot of anti-catholic rhetoric and questions, but then refuses to listen to the responses I give. She claims she’s seeking the truth for herself and researching christianity to find the truth, yet she refuses to read the early church fathers. She’s a prime example of protestant attitude that is pervasive in the US, that everything can be voted on, everything can be decided by majority popular opinion, and that she knows better than 2000 years of tradition and faith. It’s like talking to a wall, and I can’t stand it. It is very frustrating.

Yes, exactly. A Protestant turned Catholic once told me that they do this in order not to seek the truth. That some in their hearts realize that if they do their research, they would be in shock to learn the truth of Jesus Christ.

 

[whatevergirl]

After reading this thread–I think perhaps (correct me if I’m wrong on this Benedict) but I think Benedict is meaning why are Protestants contrary to everything? It seems that no matter the answer given here (using these forums as an example only) people who are non Catholic, (not just Protestants) have a knack of just being contrary for the sake of it, and want everything backed up with fact from the Bible.

If the Bible is all we should rely on–should we presume that Jesus said only what was written? Should we presume that Jesus ate dinner only six times in his entire life? Why not? The Bible doesn’t state more than that, so it would have to be so. lol

I look at questions though as a good thing…it shows interest…and perhaps, the person is interested in converting, and is seeking Truth. But, just to ask endless questions (some threads are this way I have seen) with no resolve…and just to be contrary, seems an effort in futility.

 

[thomasf]

Yes, exactly. A Protestant turned Catholic once told me that they do this in order not to seek the truth. That some in their hearts realize that if they do their research, they would be in shock to learn the truth of Jesus Christ.

This is what frustrates me so much, because imo this person has very catholic leanings about repentence and conversion and changing your life. But she’s been filled with all this anti-catholic rhetoric that she refuses to consider anything I say. Yet she thinks she has discovered all these truths and she’s in on some secret knowledge about what real christianity is supposed to be. She apparently is better equipped to know this than everyone in the previous 2000 years of christianity.

 

[Benedict16]

Most of the splits if not all were in the 15th-16th centuries. People leaving the Catholic church and starting their own religions because they were not happy. John Wesley started the Methodist church, NOT Jesus Christ. Because if John Wesley followed Jesus, then he’d practice as a Catholic. And please don’t even compare Wesley to St. Augustine. St. Augustine did not follow what Wesley started. Please…

 

[HannahLisa]

I ask questions because I want to know the truth. If I don’t understand, I am going to ask so that I can hopefully have a better understanding. I am not going to take it for granted that this person is right because they say they are, or because all these people say they are. Since everyone thinks they’re right, I think the only thing I can do is try and find out for myself why they think they’re right, and then determine who I think is right.

There are some people, Catholic and Protestant, who ask questions only to prove others wrong and refuse to listen when they are proved wrong. Not everyone is like that, and not all Protestants are like that.

 

[Righteousone]

These kinds of people are brainwashed. You cannot get through to them no matter what, so as Jesus said, shake the sand from your sandals and move on…

 

[lak611]

Most of the splits if not all were in the 15th-16th centuries. People leaving the Catholic church and starting their own religions because they were not happy. John Wesley started the Methodist church, NOT Jesus Christ. Because if John Wesley followed Jesus, then he’d practice as a Catholic. And please don’t even compare Wesley to St. Augustine. St. Augustine did not follow what Wesley started. Please…

Wesley was an Anglican priest and died as one. The Methodist church did not officially form until after Wesley’s death. Wesley was not an ex-Catholic. He was always Anglican. Keep in mind, the Catholic church was illegal in England during Wesley’s lifetime.

 

[O.S.Luke]

Most of the splits if not all were in the 15th-16th centuries. People leaving the Catholic church and starting their own religions because they were not happy. John Wesley started the Methodist church, NOT Jesus Christ. Because if John Wesley followed Jesus, then he’d practice as a Catholic. And please don’t even compare Wesley to St. Augustine. St. Augustine did not follow what Wesley started. Please…

Let’s see… there was the 5th century split resulting in the Oriental/Orthodox. There was a huge split in 1054 between West and East. All, along with the Reformation, were tragic schisms that were regrettable and probably grieve God.

I didn’t say Jesus Christ started the Methodist Church. I said that John Wesley was a follower of Jesus Christ, just as Augustine, Aquinas, and C.S. Lewis were. And I made no comparisons. Do you read these posts? Just so you know - the ECF’s were required reading in seminary.

I still don’t get what your point is, Benedict. Do you have one? And do you have an answer for me re: why the Catholic Church isn’t located in some cities and towns? I mean… if you are the one true Church, don’t you care about those who have no Catholic presence in their midst? Where are you?

 

[mgrfin]

QUOTE]

It is not really rude or insulting to ask someone what they believe, Ginger.

You happen to believe that people are after you.

Generally, you follow the evangelical/pentecostal bent
That statement is a conclusion.

We have asked you what you believe, but you don’t seem to want to profess it. You say you are a Protestant, which means you don’t accept what the Catholic Church teaches in many matters.

It is not rude to surmize what a person believes from the arguments they put forward on particular issues, for example, the Scriptures, the Eucharist, Grace, The Virgin Mary, the Infallibility of the Church, Justification, Tradition, Salvation and such important issues, issues on which you have discussed on posts. And you have written thousands of posts.

You don’t believe we need anything but the Scriptures. You don’t accept Tradition, or our veneration of the Virgin Mary, (which makes you ‘shutter’), or Infallibility. You say you believe in the Real Presence, that Jesus is physically and reallyt present in the Eucharist, body and blood, soul and divinity, through Transubstantiation in the Sacrifice of the Mass. We are happy that you accept our Eucharist for what it really is.

You certainly have commented on enough issues for us to know what you want us to believe about you.

You like to tell us that you used to be a Catholic, but our veneration of Mary, the Mother of God turned you away from the Faith. You have a group of ‘catholic friends’ who have strange beliefs, and which are not the teachings of the RCC.

If we are wrong, then tell us what you believe, other than just being anti-Catholic, or Protestant. If you want us to know what you profess, just tell us.

Since you are writing your defense, now is a good time to come clean about what you believe, instead of weeping about our “misunderstandings”.

May the peace of our Lord Jesus Christ fill you.

 

[jmcrae]

Let’s see… there was the 5th century split resulting in the Oriental/Orthodox. There was a huge split in 1054 between West and East. All, along with the Reformation, were tragic schisms that were regrettable and probably grieve God.

Do you think the mere fact that this happened makes it okay to be in one of these organizations?

I didn’t say Jesus Christ started the Methodist Church.

Why shouldn’t you be in the one that He did start?

And do you have an answer for me re: why the Catholic Church isn’t located in some cities and towns? I mean… if you are the one true Church, don’t you care about those who have no Catholic presence in their midst? Where are you?

Check masstimes.org - I find it difficult to believe that there is no Catholic church near you.

 

[O.S.Luke]

Do you think the mere fact that this happened makes it okay to be in one of these organizations?

I believe it is facts, not fact. And they are not organizations, they are churches.

Why shouldn’t you be in the one that He did start?

Where was it when I was growing up?

If you have read earlier posts of mine through the years, you will see that my “journey home” was not a good one. I certainly don’t blame the Catholic Church, but my geographic area as well as intense spiritual direction lead me to where I am now. I am home.

O+

 

[mgrfin]

Do you think the mere fact that this happened makes it okay to be in one of these organizations?

Why shouldn’t you be in the one that He did start?

Check masstimes.org - I find it difficult to believe that there is no Catholic church near you.

John Wesley started Methodism some time in the 1700’s. I don’t think that qualifies for anything. It is some off-shoot of Catholicism. They will claim we lost the message somewhere, and that Jesus left us, and gave the claim of infallibility to one of these thousands of communities which have crept up through the whims of mankinds.

But, I am glad he is here, and he is welcome, cause it means he is still searching.

'Credo in unam, sanctam, catholicam ecclesiam"

peace

 

[lak611]

John Wesley started Methodism some time in the 1700’s. I don’t think that qualifies for anything. It is some off-shoot of Catholicism. They will claim we lost the message somewhere, and that Jesus left us, and gave the claim of infallibility to one of these thousands of communities which have crept up through the whims of mankinds.

But, I am glad he is here, and he is welcome, cause it means he is still searching.

'Credo in unam, sanctam, catholicam ecclesiam"

peace

Wesley never was a Catholic. He was Anglican. He never started a new church. His followers did, after his death. Wesley died an Anglican, which he always was. He was not an ex-Catholic like Luther.

 

[mgrfin]

Wesley never was a Catholic. He was Anglican. He never started a new church. His followers did, after his death. Wesley died an Anglican, which he always was. He was not an ex-Catholic like Luther.

Thank you. I stand corrected. (Did I have the century right?)

peace

 

[Claudius]

I honestly think you are working very hard now to dig up stuff to complain about against protestants. The fact we questiona nd study should count FOR us not against.

No, it is not that you question or study, when Benedict16 above says that you question everything, it means that you don’t accept as fact historical truth or empirical evidence. You aren’t questioning it in a reasonable way, you are simply calling all Catholics liers no matter what we say. A Catholic teachers says to his students that 2+2=4 and all the protestants students in the room imediatly call the teacher and the book he is reading from a pack of lies. They then go off and say that 2+2=“All Catholics go to Hell” and put that on their test in protest against the teacher having any authority over the students in the first place. Then when they all fail the test, they blame the teacher and can’t understand why.

 

[Claudius]

Let’s see… there was the 5th century split resulting in the Oriental/Orthodox. There was a huge split in 1054 between West and East. All, along with the Reformation, were tragic schisms that were regrettable and probably grieve God.

The split with Oriental Orthodoxy is healing as we come into an age of linguistic expertise that allows us to understand more and more that we have always really believed the same thing. There are some issues but why a protestant should care is beyond me. There was no split in 1054, what did happen was a so called patiarch got himself excommunicated for throwing the consecrated Host on the floor of the church and asking the congregation to step on it. This will get you excommunicated even today. As such, he committed an open act of apostacy from the church as was to be releaved from his office. In order to prevent this, this now excommunicated Non Christian told his congregation that he excommunicated the Pope, which he had not authority to do, and so that when the Pope’s people showed up to remove him from office and appoint a new and Legitimate Patriach the people would help him resist and keep his job which he was obviously unfit for. The created two churches in the East, the loyal Catholic Church and the church members the supported members of their race against outsiders and fell into heresy. It was really some Four Houndred years later that an actual split happened but again it wasn’t really a split. Only 60 years before Luther proved to the world what an idiot he was, muslims conqured Constantinople. Under the muslims all loyal Catholics were killed and only those so called Christians who were racist against Latins were allowed to be the Christian Church in the Ottoman empire. Latins had issues with the relationship we had before but not it is nearly imposible for reunion because they have fallen into heresy and need to admit that they are wrong before that can happen. However, we do see that the One True Church did manage to survive even in those circumstances and we see that in the Eastern Catholic Churches of today.

Now that I have informed you of some history, will you question it and call me a lier, or look it up and see that I am correct and tell me so? Since you are a protestant, I will go ahead and assume you will call me a lier and put me on your “going to hell” list that I know all protestants have.

 

[O.S.Luke]

here was no split in 1054, what did happen was a so called patiarch got himself excommunicated for throwing the consecrated Host on the floor of the church and asking the congregation to step on it.

To quote New Advent:

The Eastern Schism

From the time of Diotrephes (3 John 1:9-10) there have been continual schisms, of which the greater number were in the East. Arianism produced a huge schism; the Nestorian and Monophysite schisms still last. However, the Eastern Schism always means that most deplorable quarrel of which the final result is the separation of the vast majority of Eastern Christians from union with the Catholic Church, the schism that produced the separated, so-called “Orthodox” Church. - from New Advent Encyclopedia, newadvent.org/cathen/13535a.htm

An official Catholic source calls it a schism, Claudius. I find no joy in schisms - including the Reformation. But they are a part of our history than we cannot deny.

Now that I have informed you of some history, will you question it and call me a lier, or look it up and see that I am correct and tell me so? Since you are a protestant, I will go ahead and assume you will call me a lier and put me on your “going to hell” list that I know all protestants have.

a. Never assume. I would simply call you mistaken.
b. All Protestants do not think Catholics are going to hell. I certainly don’t. Fellow Christians should be for each other, rather than against, being linked by the baptism and their allegiance to Christ. I married a Roman Catholic, and I certainly don’t think my wife, nor her family, is going to hell.

 

[c659smith]

I think this thread is misleading. It is good for everyone to question for when we question we learn.

I think the thread shoul be is that why is it that protestants protest on areas of the bible they do not like.

1. What God has joined togrther let no man put assunder.
2. Eat my body and drink my blood = eternal life–Do not eat my
   body and drink my blood - no life
3. What sins you forgive are forgiven those sins you retain are
   retained.
4. Confess your sins aloud
5. Wine not grape juice

There is no Christian that with common sense deny the Catholic Church was the original through Jesus Christ.

There is no Christian that would deny that what King Henry the 8th did was excusable.

There is no Christian out there that would agree that Luther had the authority from above to change words or delete words in the bible.

The reason for so many denominations out there is that ultimately in the protestant faith there are no leaders that are taken seriously esspecially when it comes to something one may disagree with

In a traditional family there is father, mother, and children. Now someone has got to make the tough choice and all have to abide otherwise there is no family.

In the workplace someone has got to make the tough decisions and all have to abide otherwise there is chaos.

There may be an authority figure but most feel that ultimately here on earth they have no authority so if a disagreement occurs start a new church.

Deny this all you want but it is truth.

 

[Righteousone]

Wesley never was a Catholic. He was Anglican. He never started a new church. His followers did, after his death. Wesley died an Anglican, which he always was. He was not an ex-Catholic like Luther.

So, does that make it right?