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benedictus2
Guest
Only because you posted 469 without any explanation. Then went and did 470.
As I said before it was a foolish way to go about it.
If you had incorporated both of them in one post, that would have made sense.
- Status
As I said before it was a foolish way to go about it.
If you had incorporated both of them in one post, that would have made sense.
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ufamtobie
Guest
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Cinette
Guest
*I posted this on another thread and would like to do so here also:
*
*I believe that it was C S Lewis who wrote that Pride is the basis of all sin.
I believe that to be more effective in posting we should first of all pray for inspiration and discernment. We need patience and should pause before posting and reflect. There are often posters that make our blood boil with outrageous statements and we get excited and may react aggressively and then regret what we say. We can be more effective if we pause, take in everything that is posted, exercise control and then post. We will find that we will restrain ourselves and hold back on certain remarks we might feel inclined to make. I have noticed certain individuals who have changed radically over a period of time going from aggressive and angry to…normal! Yes it is the Holy Spirit but for the Holy Spirit to do his job on us we have to respond also - we need to want Him to help us be more charitable and patient.
I have noticed that often pride gets in the way and we need to identify this and ask the Spirit to help us. We are almost all Christians and where is that love…??
We are all anonymous on this thread - nobody knows us - so we can open up. Yet I see there are some whose pride will not let them do so.
Cinette
*
*I believe that it was C S Lewis who wrote that Pride is the basis of all sin.
I believe that to be more effective in posting we should first of all pray for inspiration and discernment. We need patience and should pause before posting and reflect. There are often posters that make our blood boil with outrageous statements and we get excited and may react aggressively and then regret what we say. We can be more effective if we pause, take in everything that is posted, exercise control and then post. We will find that we will restrain ourselves and hold back on certain remarks we might feel inclined to make. I have noticed certain individuals who have changed radically over a period of time going from aggressive and angry to…normal! Yes it is the Holy Spirit but for the Holy Spirit to do his job on us we have to respond also - we need to want Him to help us be more charitable and patient.
I have noticed that often pride gets in the way and we need to identify this and ask the Spirit to help us. We are almost all Christians and where is that love…??
We are all anonymous on this thread - nobody knows us - so we can open up. Yet I see there are some whose pride will not let them do so.
Cinette
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Cinette
Guest
*We humans have a very limited concept of God and His creation. We can only judge from human standards. This is why we need Faith which is through the grace of God and which enables us to believe because we love and trust God.
However, Jesus did give us a peep at things that are supernatural with his miracles and his love and great sacrifice.
Corey says that Mary is not the Mother of God because she did not give birth to God and that she is only the Mother of the human Jesus. This obviously appears to make sense to her but the supernatural cannot make sense to us. We can only conceive of 4 dimensions - height, width, breadth and time. Scientists may be able to conceive of more dimensions but theirs is also limited. God is beyond all our comprehension, our understanding.
Jesus was fully man and fully God. Elizabeth’s cousin, when she saw Mary arrive felt the child within her heap and greeted her “How is it that the Mother of my Lord comes to me?” How on earth could Elizabeth have known that Mary was to bear the Son of God, the Messiah? She obviously was inspired by the Holy Spirit of course!
We believe (Luke 1:35) "The angel said to her, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be holy; he will be call Son of God”. * *Mary was the Mother of Jesus, the Son of God, fully divine, fully human.
I suggest you meditate on this. Mary is our Mother also. Mary is part of the Divine Family, the Holy Family - Jesus loved her and honoured her and we love her also and so should you. You should acknowledge her Corey and you will also love her and see how beautiful she is - she points us to Jesus.
As for calling her dead - you are dead wrong my dear Corey! So are you saying that Jesus rose from the dead so that those who die will die forever? What you are saying is that there was no point to the ressurection! You are denying the reason for Jesus’ death on the Cross! So the “faithful departed” are dead? What a crazy notion!! Have you never heard of Eternal Life and how Jesus achieved this for us all who love God and respond to His love and mercy? Maaan!
Corey please, I don’t want to hear you say things like that. It is a terrible thing to say and to believe. If you are Christian then you must love Jesus and his Holy Family. You have a lot of homework to do if you are to call yourself a true Christian!!!
Cinette
*.
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prodigalson12
Guest
Cinette, this is a classic perspective from the protestant’s and not 100% of all of them that think that way. I had this same discussion with a very good friend of mine that has been more of a Mother to me then my own, and she couldn’t quite grasp this concept of our blessed Mother being active in our lives, and quite a bit alive. It’s very, very sad how we of the faith are supposed to believe in the truth of the herafter, yet deny it’s being live, and more dead, and once we are gone, we are gone and our soul might as well vanish.
This is why we must push forward along the fullness of our Catholic faith, clearly this is part of the divide between us and them, we see and feel in spirit, they merely in body, and it’s impossible to relate one over to the other. The best you can do is relate to them in their lives, how Jesus has made a difference within them, and he did not manifest himself back in the flesh to do so, so why not their deceased relatives and friends, why not the angels and saints, including Mary herself? If they do, so can she, and why simply leave your faith on the rail, a dead end simply because there are no answers withing the protestant teachings…there are many that are very much protestant that have no problem at all grasping what I say on this matter, and it really doesn’t take a huge leap of faith to embrace the understanding.
This is why we must push forward along the fullness of our Catholic faith, clearly this is part of the divide between us and them, we see and feel in spirit, they merely in body, and it’s impossible to relate one over to the other. The best you can do is relate to them in their lives, how Jesus has made a difference within them, and he did not manifest himself back in the flesh to do so, so why not their deceased relatives and friends, why not the angels and saints, including Mary herself? If they do, so can she, and why simply leave your faith on the rail, a dead end simply because there are no answers withing the protestant teachings…there are many that are very much protestant that have no problem at all grasping what I say on this matter, and it really doesn’t take a huge leap of faith to embrace the understanding.
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prodigalson12
Guest
I tell the same thing over and over again myself, funny how that works, in scripture, our Lord our God does the same thing, I wonder why that is so? It’s because we make the same mistakes over and over again and I guess we have to learn by route if we cannot learn by plain logic, getting it right the first time…same context goes on in the confessional as I’m sure you know.
You should listen to what she is teaching my friend, she knows what she is talking about, you are in a position of authority, you will be held to a higher accountability then the rest of us, and she’s not some laymen at all, trust me, she has credentials that equal your own…
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Sailor_Kenshin
Guest
If Blessed Mary ever Virgin is NOT everything Holy Mother Church knows her to be, then even your Protestant churches have no reality, have no power.
It’s as if you don’t believe in original sin. If not, then why was The Son of Man needed to redeem us from sin?
Bluntly speaking, I don’t put much trust in ‘Catholics’ who don’t love our Mother and who sneer at the Rosary. They remind me of those pseudo-intellectuals who claim to be Catholic yet think they know better than the Magisterium.
It’s as if you don’t believe in original sin. If not, then why was The Son of Man needed to redeem us from sin?
Bluntly speaking, I don’t put much trust in ‘Catholics’ who don’t love our Mother and who sneer at the Rosary. They remind me of those pseudo-intellectuals who claim to be Catholic yet think they know better than the Magisterium.
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prodigalson12
Guest
Their power is their ability to join together in prayer and worship, be it limited because it’s not at all organized, yet a focused effort and gathering together in our Lords name holds power, regardless of individual understanding, so don’t discount their efforts at all my friend.
I also agree with you along the benchwarmers that claim the title of Catholic, many of all faiths, christian and otherwise fit that category, they have an assemblence of understanding, but deny it’s power, read 2 timothy 3 some time, the world is saturated with the type.
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Leeann
Guest
Hi Tantum and Benedictus 2:
Since the last few posts from both of you are likeminded in their content…I hope you don’t mind if I simply address this back to both of you, for the sake of expediency and the economy of time here…( I believe we’re in differing time zones/coupled with activities in everyday life that takes one away from posting in the forum - sleeping/working,etc).
There is actually another thread here at CAF, that was started by a Catholic poster about a year and a half ago or so, where the main question asked me the same thing about being sure that it was the Holy Spirit, and not, as Tantum has mentioned, a ‘dark Spirit’ guiding or leading me…in fact there are also a lot of posts in there with regards to all the questions you’ve posed here about the authority of the Catholic church itself (… that thread ALSO got way off topic.…).
The thread was entitled…‘Leeann, a question for you and anyone else who might like to answer.’
The question posted was:
**You made mention of being guided by the Holy Spirit at times… and I believe it was in relation to when reading the Bible.
The question is: If you believe that you are being guided by the Holy Spirit, how do you know with certainty that it is specifically the Holy Spirit, and not another spirit…even one of a nefarious nature?**Its a serious question.
My answer was Post #146 :
**First of all, I know in whom I believe, that being Jesus Christ, born of a virgin, lived as man/God here on earth, died on the cross for the salvation of all mankind, resurrected and lives. (and will return…and reign forever).
I believe and understand that the Holy Spirit will always point to Jesus (God) and direct my focus on Him and His truth.
Over the years, it has been brought to my attention….too often I’m ashamed to say, that while I can fool others most of the time and myself some of the time and even those times when I “feel” that I’m being as open and honest with Him as I possibly can be…it has been brought to my attention, that His knowledge of me goes even beyond that.
I can never fool Him…He knows my motives and the intentions of my heart, mind and spirit…stripped bare…and He still loves me.
So with faith and confidence, but with a very naked and humble spirit, I approach His throne of grace in prayer before reading the Bible and ask that He will reveal His truth to me and also that He enable me, by the leading of the HS to be able to understand/comprehend and apply His truth to my life.
(no matter how hard it may be for me to want to accept it - as at times it may not be what I want to hear)
Then there’s the peace that comes.*
Phil 4: 6 & 7
[6] Be careful for nothing; but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God.[7] And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.
It’s not just with the Bible, but in every normal day living, when the normal everyday challenges start getting the better of me…and they do a lot……to be able to stop and have the focus brought back to Him……
no other spirit would - or could - do that.*
>>>>>>>>>>>
I haven’t been into CAF on a regular basis for 5/6 months – due to reasons I mentioned above but when I visited the other day and saw this thread on Mary….and came in and read a few posts……(I actually hesitated before posting anything, in case I couldn’t afford the time necessary to participate…because as you know, these threads DO go off base and get sidetracked…as this one certainly has)………but then I had to say thank you to those posters who acknowledged that there are those within the Catholic church who do “go overboard” with regards to Mary – for whatever reason – it DOES happen.
As for all the other comments and questions about the Catholic church’s authority and the authenticity of that claim….there are other threads here on CAF where I’ve answered those same questions posed….and you or anyone else is quite welcome to read those also if you care too.
Since the last few posts from both of you are likeminded in their content…I hope you don’t mind if I simply address this back to both of you, for the sake of expediency and the economy of time here…( I believe we’re in differing time zones/coupled with activities in everyday life that takes one away from posting in the forum - sleeping/working,etc).
There is actually another thread here at CAF, that was started by a Catholic poster about a year and a half ago or so, where the main question asked me the same thing about being sure that it was the Holy Spirit, and not, as Tantum has mentioned, a ‘dark Spirit’ guiding or leading me…in fact there are also a lot of posts in there with regards to all the questions you’ve posed here about the authority of the Catholic church itself (… that thread ALSO got way off topic.…).
The thread was entitled…‘Leeann, a question for you and anyone else who might like to answer.’
The question posted was:
**You made mention of being guided by the Holy Spirit at times… and I believe it was in relation to when reading the Bible.
The question is: If you believe that you are being guided by the Holy Spirit, how do you know with certainty that it is specifically the Holy Spirit, and not another spirit…even one of a nefarious nature?**Its a serious question.
My answer was Post #146 :
**First of all, I know in whom I believe, that being Jesus Christ, born of a virgin, lived as man/God here on earth, died on the cross for the salvation of all mankind, resurrected and lives. (and will return…and reign forever).
I believe and understand that the Holy Spirit will always point to Jesus (God) and direct my focus on Him and His truth.
Over the years, it has been brought to my attention….too often I’m ashamed to say, that while I can fool others most of the time and myself some of the time and even those times when I “feel” that I’m being as open and honest with Him as I possibly can be…it has been brought to my attention, that His knowledge of me goes even beyond that.
I can never fool Him…He knows my motives and the intentions of my heart, mind and spirit…stripped bare…and He still loves me.
So with faith and confidence, but with a very naked and humble spirit, I approach His throne of grace in prayer before reading the Bible and ask that He will reveal His truth to me and also that He enable me, by the leading of the HS to be able to understand/comprehend and apply His truth to my life.
(no matter how hard it may be for me to want to accept it - as at times it may not be what I want to hear)
Then there’s the peace that comes.*
Phil 4: 6 & 7
[6] Be careful for nothing; but in everything by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto God.[7] And the peace of God, which passeth all understanding, shall keep your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.
It’s not just with the Bible, but in every normal day living, when the normal everyday challenges start getting the better of me…and they do a lot……to be able to stop and have the focus brought back to Him……
no other spirit would - or could - do that.*
>>>>>>>>>>>
I haven’t been into CAF on a regular basis for 5/6 months – due to reasons I mentioned above but when I visited the other day and saw this thread on Mary….and came in and read a few posts……(I actually hesitated before posting anything, in case I couldn’t afford the time necessary to participate…because as you know, these threads DO go off base and get sidetracked…as this one certainly has)………but then I had to say thank you to those posters who acknowledged that there are those within the Catholic church who do “go overboard” with regards to Mary – for whatever reason – it DOES happen.
As for all the other comments and questions about the Catholic church’s authority and the authenticity of that claim….there are other threads here on CAF where I’ve answered those same questions posed….and you or anyone else is quite welcome to read those also if you care too.
L
Leeann
Guest
*I posted this on another thread and would like to do so here also:
*
*I believe that it was C S Lewis who wrote that Pride is the basis of all sin.
I believe that to be more effective in posting we should first of all pray for inspiration and discernment. We need patience and should pause before posting and reflect. There are often posters that make our blood boil with outrageous statements and we get excited and may react aggressively and then regret what we say. We can be more effective if we pause, take in everything that is posted, exercise control and then post. We will find that we will restrain ourselves and hold back on certain remarks we might feel inclined to make. I have noticed certain individuals who have changed radically over a period of time going from aggressive and angry to…normal! Yes it is the Holy Spirit but for the Holy Spirit to do his job on us we have to respond also - we need to want Him to help us be more charitable and patient.
I have noticed that often pride gets in the way and we need to identify this and ask the Spirit to help us. We are almost all Christians and where is that love…??
We are all anonymous on this thread - nobody knows us - so we can open up. Yet I see there are some whose pride will not let them do so.
Cinette
Well stated.
B
brb3
Guest
Luke 1:48 “for he has regarded the low estate of his handmaiden. For behold, HENCEFORTH ALL GENERATIONS WILL CALL ME BLESSED;”
Luke teaches you otherwise !
And, you are errant to believe she is DEAD … to the Church. Christ taught even the thief of cross that he would be ALIVE in Paradise, later that day. Paul teaches we have a ‘great cloud of saints in heaven’ … watching over us, giving spiritual aid and comfort to the Christians, who will believe and receive.
Where is you faith, why do you ignore Luke, Paul, and Christ on this topic ?
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prodigalson12
Guest
Often people put out the word “PRIDE” as a way of pushing off the truth, thinking the message is based upon pride rather then truth, and since the delivery is not candy coated and fluffy, it must be pride that’s doing it., totally ignoring the message itself. Take Christ in his messages at the time, they were far from easy to listen to by most people, some received him well, others tried to kill him, and eventually did. Don’t be afraid to be bold about speaking the truth, be more afraid of being quiet or docile just so you can fit in…
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Esdra
Guest
Hi
who said that you are not allowed to love Mary?
I at least never claimed that.
I mean Mary is the mother of our Savior Christ Jesus. So why should I hate here?
But on the other hand, why should I honor her, or pray to her?
She was a simply a human, although never the less a good person. And in my theological believe it is senseless to either pray to Saints, or to the dead or to Mary.
Because ONLY Jesus is our advocate before god, because He descended to heaven (cf. Acts 1:9). Mary didn’t so, the Saints didn’t so, well our beloved dead also didn’t so… [also confer my thread, it is similar to this one: http://forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=464253&page=3]
So they can’t influence us. And they can’t influence God. In John 6:40 it says:
40 For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day**.
For me this means that we are only in heaven at the last day, like John wrote.
Esdra
who said that you are not allowed to love Mary?
I at least never claimed that.
I mean Mary is the mother of our Savior Christ Jesus. So why should I hate here?
But on the other hand, why should I honor her, or pray to her?
She was a simply a human, although never the less a good person. And in my theological believe it is senseless to either pray to Saints, or to the dead or to Mary.
Because ONLY Jesus is our advocate before god, because He descended to heaven (cf. Acts 1:9). Mary didn’t so, the Saints didn’t so, well our beloved dead also didn’t so… [also confer my thread, it is similar to this one: http://forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=464253&page=3]
So they can’t influence us. And they can’t influence God. In John 6:40 it says:
40 For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day**.
For me this means that we are only in heaven at the last day, like John wrote.
Esdra
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prodigalson12
Guest
So they can’t influence us. And they can’t influence God. In John 6:40 it says:
40 For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day**.
For me this means that we are only in heaven at the last day, like John wrote.
Esdra
This is the common argument I get…and I just talked about it if you scrolled up a couple posts above here.
There is death on the cross, there is also resurrection, and the latter does not get any kind of notice too often. This is a living gospel, a living word, a living faith, not a dead one. Our body’s die, but our spirit lives on, without the spirit living on, no point in faith of any kind to begin with, where do you think the spirit goes, some holding tank up in the sky or something, totally shut off from all reality???. Jesus speaks of the kingdom of God as present, not some future, or some place to go, it’s in the here and now, and this also reinforces this. Are you just a body, or are you an eternal soul, that’s the question I have for you my friend. And if you are an eternal soul, in this and the next life, are you not in touch with God, and if so, why limit yourself to just that, if you are with him, he knows all, and you are part of him, why is it so hard to grasp being able to be in touch with the living souls on this earth?
I mourn over the dead, the spiritually dead not the physically dead who are spiritually live.
And to address the tripe you have been fed since your youth about the intercessor and Mary, Mary has never been called one, not by any faith anywhere, that’s a lie you have been fed by some weak minded control freaks that only want to control and mislead others so they can fill their coffers, zero basis in fact of the Catholic faith what so ever when it comes down to it.
Why honor her, she’s practically breathing on your shoulder in the here and now, all you have to do is acknowledge her and you will see why Christ made it very clear that she is to play a roll in his kingdom in a big way, ignore her and she’s still going to be there for you, but trust in his gift and just watch out my friend, you have an ally that’s in charge of the angels themselves, you will be rewarded greatly in the process, she is our spiritual Mother and she’s an awesome one!!!
S
Saintlucy
Guest
I quite agree. We have to stand up and be counted or the Richard Dawkins and christians with erroneous beliefs will take over. It saddens me deeply that Catholics in South America, for instance, are being led astray by evangelical movements because the Catholic Church, possibly due to the shortage of priests, has let them down with regard to correct catechesis. It is our duty as Catholics to fulfill the mission given to us at our baptism. We were anointed with sacred chrism as priests, prophets and kings. The prophets were not too humble to proclaim the Word of the Lord and so we MUST be prepared to do the same. Christ reminds us that that we will be persecuted as the prophets were.
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prodigalson12
Guest
I’d rather be in the middle of the area among a bunch of evangelic s rather then the current scene of drug lords and black market racketeers, I’m not thrilled they are not totally on board with the Catholic agenda, but they are at least approachable and don’t have to face ak 47’s in the process. We need all of the help we can get down there, even if it’s a watered down version of our faith, the more of us on a united front the better.
F
FrJohnB
Guest
The higher accountability argument is a weak defense my friend. ALL Christians are held to a higher accountability, some more than others. OK IF she is more than a laymen as you suggest, than I would say that she should understand as did Padrej who is more than a layman and also the layperson Benidict. Why was it they could get my points and not her? I do presume that you are talking about the person I responded to in these recent posts.
What mistake do you accuse me of by the way? Is it posting what others may believe that is also on the CAF in the faith section that we know has been refuted? This seemed to be the focus of what everyone has been attacking me on. They focus NOT on what I posted that was in line with the Church but only on the explanation I was using that spreads the whole belief system of everyone out so that a clear comparison could be made. The person I was responding to kept pushing the same question again and again and I am not going to play dirty cat and mouse games with someone like that. When a person does this they are trying to get the person to step out of line to pounce and say, “AHAH you see I was right he does believe this way because…” This is why I kept asking the person to go back to what was already on the CAF and they would see that what I put forth is also there. I told then I did not believe the “modern theology” but what the church’s position on this was, but NO that was not good enough. The focus was on the other beliefs that I posted to show comparison with the accusation that I believed such. You speak of higher responsibility, how about the responsibility of those to pray for and support the priesthood rather than tear them apart at every chance because they do not think they said something in a proper way. This was what got Jesus in trouble with the Pharisees because he did not follow the way THEY thought he should be saying to bolster their position. Many times I have explained over the 25 + years in the priesthood to people church doctrine but there will always be one or two that will say, “you said that wrong” or “that is not the way this reads” when I said the basic same things, just in a way that THEY were not used to hearing it.
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brb3
Guest
Where do you get these errant ideas ? Don’t you read scripture and accept it literally ?
Did not Christ teach all converts become reborn as his brothers / sisters ? Can you accept that we are now in the Kingdom age ? What does the Lord’s prayer teach us on this Kingdom topic ? Did not Christ commune directly with Moses and Elijah on the Mount ?
Its only ‘senseless’ for you because you don’t accept the scriptures … and have faith in them. Reexamine your beliefs … and ditch those that are errant. Listen to Paul in 2 Timothy 2:15. " Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman who need not be ashamed, rightly dividing the Word of Truth".
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Padrej
Guest
Does this mean that Benedictus 2 is ordained to the priesthood? You refer to her as “She” I thought that in order to have credentials that equaled she would also have to be a priest. Or were you referring to “education” as if you know what degrees any of us have.
Just wondering
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Padrej
Guest
So they can’t influence us. And they can’t influence God. In John 6:40 it says:
40 For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise him up at the last day**.
For me this means that we are only in heaven at the last day, like John wrote.
Esdra
I do not think there there is a Catholic alive who would not agree that Jesus is the only mediator and advocate. However, you do I assume ask others to pray for you here on earth do you not? If you take that a step further my grandmother’s prayers for me did not stop being answered the moment of her death; why because Jesus said that God is a God of the LIVING. Why then would you not want somebody who is already next to God to continue praying for you? This is what Mary does for us. She is not dead but living in the presence of God so why not ask her or any other saint to “pray for me” because they are already there. You can still go to Jesus but you also have the words of Jesus that when two agree touching anything that it will be done in heaven also. Why not have one of those “two” be somebody already in God’s presence?
- Status