Why is it wrong to love Mary?

[2ndGen]

Justasking4

 Do we have to believe in Christ to get to heaven? Hm. I don't think so. When Christ was asked how many times we should forgive, he replied 7 x 70, his way of saying an infinite number of times.

  Now if we are expected to keep forgiving like that, can you imagine a merciful God condemning Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, Hindus, Sikhs, Jains, Unitarians or even atheists to eternal hell? That contradicts everything I believe about God. That turns Christianity into a harsh and judgemental religion - one that I could not embrace.

   I feel privileged to be a Christian - by birth and family upbringing. But how can we sit in judgement upon the billions who were raised in non-Christian faiths or no faith at all? That sort of pride and condemnation of others is contrary to the gospel of Christ. It certainly contradicts I Cor 13 - 'and the greatest of these is love.'!

Wow Roy…that sounds just like Romans 2.

 

[justasking4]

Roy5;3244905]Justasking4

 Do we have to believe in Christ to get to heaven? Hm. I don't think so.

Here is what the scriptures say in Romans 10:9-10:
9 that if you confess with your mouth Jesus as Lord, and **believe in your heart **that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved;
10 for with the heart a person believes, resulting in righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in salvation.

When Christ was asked how many times we should forgive, he replied 7 x 70, his way of saying an infinite number of times.

true

  Now if we are expected to keep forgiving like that, can you imagine a merciful God condemning Muslims, Jews, Buddhists, Hindus, Sikhs, Jains, Unitarians or even atheists to eternal hell? That contradicts everything I believe about God. That turns Christianity into a harsh and judgemental religion - one that I could not embrace.

What do the scriptures teach? Let me give you just one passage out of many what the scriptures say.
Matthew 7:13-14
13 “Enter through the narrow gate; for the gate is wide and the way is broad that leads to destruction, and there are many who enter through it.
14 “For the gate is small and the way is narrow that leads to life, and there are few who find it.

Keep in mind these are the words of Christ Himself that many will perish.

   I feel privileged to be a Christian - by birth and family upbringing. But how can we sit in judgement upon the billions who were raised in non-Christian faiths or no faith at all?

i don’t judge anyone but i have a responsibilty in Christ to warn that reject Christ is to be condemned. This is what the scriptures exhort all Christians to do.

That sort of pride and condemnation of others is contrary to the gospel of Christ. It certainly contradicts I Cor 13 - ‘and the greatest of these is love.’!

The most loving thing you can do for non christians is to tell them the bad news (condemnation without Christ) and the good news that faith in Christ will save them.

 

[Righteousone]

I thought this thread was about the Blessed Mother?

Remember, Jesus does not permit that we offend and despise his most Holy Mother.
We have recorded through many centuries of church history the obvious testimony which demonstrates by the terrible chastisements which have befallen those who have attacked the honor of His most holy Mother, how our Lord Jesus christ has always defended the Honor of His Mother.

Just thought I’d bring this back on track.

 

[2ndGen]

I thought this thread was about the Blessed Mother?

Remember, Jesus does not permit that we offend and despise his most Holy Mother.
We have recorded through many centuries of church history the obvious testimony which demonstrates by the terrible chastisements which have befallen those who have attacked the honor of His most holy Mother, how our Lord Jesus christ has always defended the Honor of His Mother.

Just thought I’d bring this back on track.

Oh, yeah…it’s “not” wrong to love Mary!

 

[Righteousone]

I love the Blessed Mother and I will defend Her til I die. :knight2:

 

[2ndGen]

I love the Blessed Mother and I will defend Her til I die. :knight2:

:knight1:

youtube.com/watch?v=k97ApJiJD9c

:knight2:

 

[justasking4]

I thought this thread was about the Blessed Mother?

Remember, Jesus does not permit that we offend and despise his most Holy Mother.
We have recorded through many centuries of church history the obvious testimony which demonstrates by the terrible chastisements which have befallen those who have attacked the honor of His most holy Mother, how our Lord Jesus christ has always defended the Honor of His Mother.

Just thought I’d bring this back on track.

This is the first i have seen this kind of thing. Would you happen to have some examples of it i.e. the terrible chastisements?

 

[2ndGen]

This is the first i have seen this kind of thing. Would you happen to have some examples of it i.e. the terrible chastisements?

It’s called The Fourth Commandment…“Honor they father and mother.”

But it only applies to Christians (those “which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ”).

 

[Huguenot]

My letter (prayer) to Mary

*Dear Mary,

You are the Mother of God and my mother too. You were the perfect Mother and the perfect disciple. Mary, you were the one chosen (handpicked) by God from all time and all woman to be the Mother of God.

You are the precious vessel and the way my Lord entered the world.

You have always done the “will of our heavenly Father” and are by Jesus’ definition, His “brother, and sister, and mother” (His loyal servant, follower and disciple).

Please pray for me that I may always be a loyal follower of your Son, as you are. You have shown me how to Love your Son.

You are the Mother of God and Jesus’ disciple. You are the only person who ever lived that was with Jesus from the beginning, until the end at the foot of His cross.

You held the baby Jesus in your arms, loving Him and protecting Him, never letting Him go, until he was taken from you at the Cross. You never denied him or left Him. You remained quite because you knew that you would have to suffer so that the rest of mankind might be saved.

You were there in the upper room during Pentecost!

As for your name in scripture, there exists not a single word against you. There is no finer example of a person who has completely surrendered himself to the will of God, as you Mary.

You were truly, madly in love with your Son Jesus and who from the beginning; you knew He was “God with us”. Your perfect expression of surrender, “May it be done to me according to your word” is the source of my strength.

Mary, you kept many things in your heart and reflected on them, you truly knew the Lord before any of the apostles and He knew you.

When you brought the baby Jesus to Simeon, His destiny was revealed to you; before any other disciples knew, you knew!

“A sword pierced your own heart, so that the thoughts of many hearts would be known”. I can only imagine how you suffered and the strength you must have needed to continue on to the very end, to the foot of the cross.

I love you Mary, thank you.

You encouraged Him at the wedding at Cana, the point in which your Son Jesus and our Lord began His ministry, you sad, “do as He says”, may these words always be a reminder to me to, “do as He says”

You loved Jesus with all of your heart, all of your soul, all of your mind and all of your strength. Has there been anyone as devoted to my Lord, as you? Blessed Mary, the Lord is with you, you are blessed among all women and all generation will consider you blessed. You have been reunited with your Lord, how sweet that must be. Mary, my mother, please pray for me that the Lord have mercy on me a sinner and that one day I can come home to the Lord.

Thank you Mary and pray for me that I may always think of your great example of love, sacrifice and surrender. One cannot think about you, Mary without thinking about your son Jesus. I am madly in love with you and I am madly in love with your son, my lord Jesus Christ. May my focus allows be on Christ, as you were always focused on Him.

Your son and Christ’s loyal follower,*

• Jimmy*

Apart from the fact that you call Mary “Mother of God” and your mother, what you say about her qualities is absolutely biblical, as a Protestant I am impressed by her faith, her obedience to God and her courage ( for example when she was at the foot of the Cross, seeing her son die , whereas a lot of disciples had…disappeared )…
We have nothing against Mary herself, but we don’t agree with the fact of addressing prayers to her ( or to any other “saint” ), and unlike Catholics we don’t have a kind of personal, sentimental relationship with her, but neither do we with Paul, Moses or Isaiah …
I don’t know what the situation is in your country ( I’m French ) but here in France many Catholics think that Protestants despise Mary or something of the kind, it is not true at all …
they misunderstand our reasons for not praying her, and since in France Protestants represent only about 2% of the population, some Catholics never meet one of us, so we can’t explain our point of view ( but now with Internet it is better )

Your text is very poetical …

we’ve had several preaches on her in our church, our minister used the passages from the Bible you mentioned … ( so you could become our minister

 

[Righteousone]

This is the first i have seen this kind of thing. Would you happen to have some examples of it i.e. the terrible chastisements?

There is a great book out there called “Thunder of Justice”. Very good for telling about these chastisements. I forget the author, I’ll get back to you on that one.

 

[2ndGen]

Apart from the fact that you call Mary “Mother of God” and your mother, what you say about her qualities is absolutely biblical,…

How do you read

Luke 1:43
"And how has it happened to me, that the mother of my Lord would come to me?

and

Revelation 12:17
“So the dragon was enraged with the woman,
and went off to make war with the rest of her children,
who keep the commandments of God and hold to the testimony of Jesus.”

 

[guanophore]

Enough with the highbrowing and The Inquisition already!

Tell you what, whoever has “not” sinned,
let him cast the first stone?

Enough with the rats and the tattletails.

Live and let live!

I am working on that. There are certain evils that should not be allowed to live, and referring to the Bishops of the Council that gave us the NT canon as if they were no better than “donkeys” is such an insult.

Hey Gaun, what’s a “Jewess?”

To a Jew, that would be considered offensive. :tsktsk:

I did not know that, and I thank you for informing me.

Should I report you now?

If you feel you must, then of course! If I continue to persist in the behavior for several hundred more posts, then I think you definitely should.

Jew·ess (js)
n. Offensive
A Jewish woman or girl.
Usage Note: Like many other English nouns in which the suffix -ess is added to a gender-neutral word to indicate femaleness, the terms Jewess and Negress are now widely regarded as offensive. It is interesting to note that the objection to words formed with the -ess suffix does not apply to words such as Latina and Chicana, whose contrasting forms Latino and Chicano are not gender-neutral but rather refer even in English primarily to males. See Usage
2ndGen;3231254:

I apologize if I was offensive. I do not have much background in Jewish culture, and am only familiar with the Biblical use of the term, which did not seem to me in any way offensive.

24 After some days Felix came with his wife Drusil’la, who was a Jewess; and he sent for Paul and heard him speak upon faith in Christ Jesus. Acts 24:24-25
2ndGen;3231254:

So stop casting stones!
2ndGen;3231254:

You violated a forum rule even if you didn’t mean to!

As soon as I read that word in one of your posts, I found it offensive because I know that it is a deragotory comment on an ethnic minority!

Evidently so! And for that I do apologize.

You’re luck I’m not like you, that I don’t encourage or support the judgement on others that you do!

I am not judgemental of justasking4, only of his offensive behavior, which I have observed in numerous posts over a long period of time.

Or else, “you’d” be reported!

Well, I encourage that, as I said. We all need to help each other here.

Is there anybody here who adheres to Jesus’ teaching on “not” passing judgement since you too can be judged by that same standard?

I am most happy to be judged by the same standard, and will consider myself equally accountable if I call justasking4’s pastors and teachers donkeys.

The truth is that I think he has been unwittingly indoctrinated in Catholic prejudice, and sincerely believes all the lies he has been taught. My issue is with him trying to perpetuate them here, rather than allowing himself to be educated in the truth.

Again, thank you for the feedback.

Really?

People are all over my mistake…need I remind you of “whom” was banned for a while not too long ago?

Also, here’s the one who has an opinion on my getting moderated:

Just to clarify, I my comment about the moderation was not in reference to you. If the other poster was referring to you, then there was just a miscommunication between us. As far as I am concerned it had nothing to do with your post.

And I really hate “better than thou’ers”.

I’m just not too fond of them.

Well, “hate” is not all together too healthy for one, but I guess that is between you and your Maker. Just for the record, I would like to say that I do not think I am “better than” the poster who was making the offensive comments to which I was responding. He has been hateful to Mary on every thread since joining the forum. I have also been reported and censured and had inappropriate posts pruned off when I got off topic or too heated, so I don’t think I am without error either. Pray for me!

 

[guanophore]

Although love is great where do the scriptures say that it is essential to be saved?

25 And behold, a lawyer stood up to put him to the test, saying, “Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?” 26 He said to him, “What is written in the law? How do you read?” 27 And he answered, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength, and with all your mind; and your neighbor as yourself.” 28 And he said to him, “You have answered right; do this, and you will live.”
Luke 10:25-28

Do you see a difference between “eternal life” and being "saved?

i must misunderstand what you say here. Are you saying that you don’t need to believe that Christ died and rose again are not absolutely essential to getting to heaven?

I don’t know if I said that, but I do believe that. I did say, or try to say that faith, by itself, is insufficient, as even the demons believe.

Not sure what the demons believe about the resurrection though. Scripture doesn’t say. Here is what James 2:19 says about this:
You believe that God is one. You do well; the demons also believe, and shudder.

Which is why I say that believing by itself is insufficient. Shuddering won’t get one to heaven either!

 

[justasking4]

guanophore;3251567]

Originally Posted by justasking4
Although love is great where do the scriptures say that it is essential to be saved?

guanophore
25 And behold, a lawyer stood up to put him to the test, saying, “Teacher, what shall I do to inherit eternal life?” 26 He said to him, “What is written in the law? How do you read?” 27 And he answered, “You shall love the Lord your God with all your heart, and with all your soul, and with all your strength, and with all your mind; and your neighbor as yourself.” 28 And he said to him, “You have answered right; do this, and you will live.”
Luke 10:25-28

Can any man perfectly love to inherit eternal life?

Do you see a difference between “eternal life” and being "saved?

Yes. All will live eternally. Either in heaven or hell. Being “saved” has to do with being forgiven of sins and being reconciled to God thru Christ that results in being “saved” forever with Christ.

 

[2ndGen]

Well, I encourage that, as I said. We all need to help each other here.

I don’t encourage any of us doing the moderator’s jobs for them. We are not moderators. If there is a member who is being obviously obscene or out of line, then it’s a reportable offense, but if we reported each and every tresspass, no thread would pass 10 posts.

Just to clarify, I my comment about the moderation was not in reference to you. If the other poster was referring to you, then there was just a miscommunication between us. As far as I am concerned it had nothing to do with your post.

It was obvious that he was referring to me. (Levi and I have since made up).

Pray for me!

(Not you) I’m tired of beaten debators running to the moderators and crying to them. I did some research on some of the visitors here and found a lot of disturbing anti-Catholic posts on other sites, but they come here and act as if their victims. I hate their hypocrisy.

But I love beating them and making them go away with their foots in their mouths. They always make sure they drop in on one of the moderators to report me, but the moderators here are (I must say) fair.

The problem is that they come here thinking their going to run into “on the streets” ‘Christmas/Easter/I’ll come to Mass when I need to baptize my baby’ Catholics.

They think they can espouse the lies that work in their captive audience backwoods anti-Catholic school houses and “not” get answered back.

I’m not a Kumbaya Christian. If someone attacks my faith, I will sacrifice myself to defend it for those who cannot. I’ll probably be the last one out of Purgatory when it is all said and done.

What would Jesus do?

He’d flip over the tables of the money changers and whip them. Not that I’m Jesus, but I’ll probably get in one good slap back before I turn the other cheek.

Not all of us can be the gentle as a dove Christians. Some of us are Templars to the core (and without The Templars, where would our faith be today?).

There is room in The Church for the sheep and for the shephards and for those rams that charge at the wolves when they come near the sheep.

As for you and me, water under the bridge.

:hug3:

 

[justasking4]

It’s called The Fourth Commandment…“Honor they father and mother.”

But it only applies to Christians (those “which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ”).

Do you believe Mary is your mother?

 

[area52]

i said ‘some kind’ of ominiscience. catholics dont say it outright, but thats what it logically amounts to: millions of catholics praying to her all at the same time…you’ll need some kind of ‘all knowing’ powers in order to recieve and understand all those simultaneous messages coming long distance from earth.

Let us start with the definition of ‘omniscience’. As it say on the definition, it is attibuted to God. Since Mary is flesh and human, she would not be able to receive ALL prayers from anyone.

Webster dictionary-
Omniscience (noun)-The state of being omniscient; having infinite knowledge. In monotheism, this ability is typically attributed to God. It is typically contrasted with omnipotence.

God (noun)- The supernatural being conceived as the perfect and omnipotent and omniscient originator and ruler of the universe; the object of worship in monotheistic religions.

 

[2ndGen]

Do you believe Mary is your mother?

Yes.

 

[2ndGen]

Let us start with the definition of ‘omniscience’. As it say on the definition, it is attibuted to God. Since Mary is flesh and human, she would not be able to receive ALL prayers from anyone.

Webster dictionary-
Omniscience (noun)-The state of being omniscient; having infinite knowledge. In monotheism, this ability is typically attributed to God. It is typically contrasted with omnipotence.

God (noun)- The supernatural being conceived as the perfect and omnipotent and omniscient originator and ruler of the universe; the object of worship in monotheistic religions.

So who are the Saints in Heaven praying for AND how do they know “what” to pray for?

 

[guanophore]

Can any man perfectly love to inherit eternal life?

Certainly sounds that way, don’t you think?

Yes. All will live eternally. Either in heaven or hell. Being “saved” has to do with being forgiven of sins and being reconciled to God thru Christ that results in being “saved” forever with Christ.

Hmmm. I agree that we all are eternal souls. However, whenver Jesus uses the term “eternal life” He is always speaking of matters pertaining to be saved. Do you not agree?

In the passage under discussion, when He tells the man to follow the commandments in order to enter into eternal life, do you think that means something other than being saved? We should probably move this to another thread, since it is off topic here.