Why is Masonry evil?

[Sixtus]

BJRUMPH posted:

there is no need to repeat invented material; what actually exists, and is proudly proclaimed by masons, is sufficient enough.)

Golfers, American Basket ball and Base ball what actuaolly exisits and is proudly proclaimed by them is sufficient enough

The cheif reason Masons “persist of set purpose in impenitence” is that Masonry itself demands the free practice of an individual in whatever religion they choose without any restriction (all the while instilling the concept that all religion is a man-made phenomena, and revelation non-existent in the historical sense). Like in many things these days, they are simply following their mis-formed “consience”. No need to repent of an “error” which their enlightened mind tells them is no error, and that those who oppose their opinion are simply “behind the times” or otherwise superstitious ignorants (sound familliar?

The cheif reason golfers and American basket ball “persist of set purpose in impenitence” is that in America among sports people, itself demands the free practice of an individual in whatever religion they choose without any restriction (all the while instilling the concept that all religion is a man-made phenomena, and revelation non-existent in the historical sense). Like in many things these days, they are simply following their mis-formed “consience”. No need to repent of an “error” which their enlightened mind tells them is no error, and that those who oppose their opinion are simply “behind the times” or otherwise superstitious ignorants (sound familliar?

Yes, I think that all American sports sounds intrinsically evil. Thank God God does not agree with me.

Bring it on and bring on the faggots

 

[Sixtus]

In the world of today there is evil heaped upon evil. There are groups who are committed to the overthrow of Christianity and who actively perscute it.

There are agnostic groups who do not care and there are athiest groups who think that all belief in a Diety is a sign of mental ill health.

Then there are groups who are simply doing their own thing. They are not committed to any cause other than their own amusement and pleasure but because they are a ‘soft’ target because what they do, is not understood, they are prime targets for the worst that humanity can invent and throw at them. They are ‘different’ and that makes them intrinsically evil.

Let us question what they do. Let us reinvent what they do, let us accuse them of all manner of blasphemy, sacrilege and profanation. Hey I heard it said that golfers try to put balls in holes because they have a secret desire to go to hell!

Hey, I heard they try to steal the Sacred Host to profane it. Hey let us find a mason, golfer etc and kill him because he is evil and we are very very very very very very vrey very very very good!

We are so good that we can dehumanise them, label them and then once denied their humanity, they are easy targets for all manner of evils that we can visit on them. We do it in the name of God. ‘God is great’!

Where have I heard that before?

Live and let live. Mt 7:1-2 ‘judge and you will not be judged for the measure you deal out is the measure you will recieve’

Jn 15: 17 ‘This is my commandment to you: love one another’.

Perhaps what the Lord meant was: ‘This is my commandment to you: love one another providing they are not masons golfers, American basket ball and baseball’!

 

[Sixtus]

A group that is athiest is ok but a group which worships God is intrinsically evil and must be persecuted at all costs. Perhaps if freemasonry embraces athism you will love them but not while they profess belief in Almighty God. That is evils heaped upon evils!

 

[thistle]

A group that is athiest is ok but a group which worships God is intrinsically evil and must be persecuted at all costs. Perhaps if freemasonry embraces athism you will love them but not while they profess belief in Almighty God. That is evils heaped upon evils!

After all the threads you’ve been in on Freemasonry are you saying you still refuse to be obedient to the Church and disown Freemasonry. You cannot say you accept the Church teaching when you continually berate the the Church on this subject.
Its very simple. The Church does NOT allow a Catholic to be a Freemason. If they do they are committing a grave sin.

 

[Tomster]

In the world of today there is evil heaped upon evil. There are groups who are committed to the overthrow of Christianity and who actively perscute it.

There are agnostic groups who do not care and there are athiest groups who think that all belief in a Diety is a sign of mental ill health.

Then there are groups who are simply doing their own thing. They are not committed to any cause other than their own amusement and pleasure but because they are a ‘soft’ target because what they do, is not understood, they are prime targets for the worst that humanity can invent and throw at them. They are ‘different’ and that makes them intrinsically evil.

Let us question what they do. Let us reinvent what they do, let us accuse them of all manner of blasphemy, sacrilege and profanation. Hey I heard it said that golfers try to put balls in holes because they have a secret desire to go to hell!

Hey, I heard they try to steal the Sacred Host to profane it. Hey let us find a mason, golfer etc and kill him because he is evil and we are very very very very very very vrey very very very good!

We are so good that we can dehumanise them, label them and then once denied their humanity, they are easy targets for all manner of evils that we can visit on them. We do it in the name of God. ‘God is great’!

Where have I heard that before?

Live and let live. Mt 7:1-2 ‘judge and you will not be judged for the measure you deal out is the measure you will recieve’

Jn 15: 17 ‘This is my commandment to you: love one another’.

Perhaps what the Lord meant was: ‘This is my commandment to you: love one another providing they are not masons golfers, American basket ball and baseball’!

" . . . All that We have said and all that we are about so say must be understood of Freemasonry taken as a whole and as including its kindred and confederated associations, but Our remarks do not apply to each of the individual of the Masonic body. Among these there may be some and even many, who, though they have incurred the guilt of having enrolled themselves in such an association, yet do not personally take a vicious part in the crimes perpetrated by the organization and are ignorant of the final purpose for which it is working. In the same way it is possible that some of the affiliated societies do not approve of certain extreme conclusions, to which they would seem to be committed, in view of the fact that these conclusions follow logically from the principles held in common by all. They are deterred by the very foulness of these conclusions when seen in all their hideousness. Some of the societies, again, are induced by particular circumstances of time and place either to aim at achieving less than the other associations or than they themselves would wish to attempt. They are not, however, on this account, to be considered alien to the Masonic Federation, because the Masonic Federation is to be judged, not so much by what it has achieved and brought to completion as by the spirit which animates it and by its general principles."

Excerpt from “Humanum Genus”. The Encyclical Letter written by Pope Leo XIII, predecessor to Pope John II.

 

[LJN21]

If I’m not mistaken Catholics are not allowed to join any secret society period.

The NFL, NBA etc are goals are public knowledge. The problem with Masons etc. is that its meetings, rituals (that’s probably a bad word) and goals of each degree and whats required to make the next degree are not public knowledge.

I’ve heard the gamete of Mason conspiracy theories and I’m not sure how much I believe. I think the major thing for me is the secrecy of the upper degrees that make me wonder.

Yeah there are pictures of God and the Trinity in Masonic lodges and temples. There all sorts of art in them. There is a huge temple not very far away that I’ve toured before. Its got everything from Christian art to Egyptian art in it. It is a… interestesting building.

 

[Seatuck]

catholicculture.org/docs/doc_view.cfm?recnum=5285

scripturecatholic.com/freemasonry_qa.html

 

[Sixtus]

Thistle posted:

After all the threads you’ve been in on Freemasonry are you saying you still refuse to be obedient to the Church and disown Freemasonry. You cannot say you accept the Church teaching when you continually berate the the Church on this subject.

Its very simple. The Church does NOT allow a Catholic to be a freemason

I am sorry Thistle but you are completly in error.

No way does Holy Mother Church forbid Catholics from being freemasons any more than she does being members of golf club.

You forget that the last time this was raised, someone posted documents allegedly from Rome with a ‘Roman’ seal on them which proved to be forgeries. I think it is rather sad that fellow Catholics are so desperate to prosecute their position that they are prepared to forge Vatican documents to prove their case.

That is actually a very serious crime and ‘the ends definitely do not justify the means!’

Anyone can hold onto supersitious belief lies fantasies and self deception. What you cannot do is expect the Vatican to endorse it. By the guidance of the Holy Spirit, Holy Church does not forbid members from being freemasons. Any view to the contrary is not authentic Catholic teaching.

I will not discuss personal points of view which have no basis in reality. If anyone is so predjudiced then that is between them and Almighty God. As for His Holy Church, they cannot use the Church to prosecute their own self-deception.

Don’t forget, I had this checked out by a canon lawyer in union with Rome! I do not think that her teachers of the law would err

 

[LJN21]

I am sorry Thistle but you are completly in error.

No way does Holy Mother Church forbid Catholics from being freemasons any more than she does being members of golf club.

You forget that the last time this was raised, someone posted documents allegedly from Rome with a ‘Roman’ seal on them which proved to be forgeries. I think it is rather sad that fellow Catholics are so desperate to prosecute their position that they are prepared to forge Vatican documents to prove their case.

That is actually a very serious crime and ‘the ends definitely do not justify the means!’

Anyone can hold onto supersitious belief lies fantasies and self deception. What you cannot do is expect the Vatican to endorse it. By the guidance of the Holy Spirit, Holy Church does not forbid members from being freemasons. Any view to the contrary is not authentic Catholic teaching.

I will not discuss personal points of view which have no basis in reality. If anyone is so predjudiced then that is between them and Almighty God. As for His Holy Church, they cannot use the Church to prosecute their own self-deception.

Don’t forget, I had this checked out by a canon lawyer in union with Rome! I do not think that her teachers of the law would err

The Vatican Web site is a forgery?
vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19850223_declaration-masonic_articolo_en.html

 

[Sixtus]

The last time around, my inbox received over 400-posts, it was never empty I just could not get around to emptying it, it was perpetually full. In the end, I had to just delete the entire contents.

I received all manner of posts from people who shared my understanding of authentic Catholic teaching to the other extreme which was so offensive that it was treated with the contempt it deserved.

Strange as it may seem, I not only support diversity but have a proven track record for upholding individual rights to express whatever opinons they wish and to do whatever they wish providing it does not hurt anyone. St Augustine taught: ‘Love and do what you will!’

In professional life, am respected for my tolerance and respect for diversity. In non-professional life, respected for my support of Holy Catholic Church. I will not be bullied into changing that point of view to fall into line with prejudice, lack of tolerance and all things anti-Christian.

The Catholic Church is arguably the most diverse institution on earth. There is every colour, political persuasion and level on the social straatum.

What fellow Catholics do, is of no concern to me. If they want to be golfers, freemasons, footballers or haggis makers, that is up to them. I do not personally like haggis. I ate one once and vowed I would never attempt to eat one again, but I do not treat any haggis eater any less than I would say a fellow non-haggis eater.

Despite the prejudice, harrassment and bullying I received in the name of Mother Church-as if the Church of Christ endorsed beating up fellow Catholics.

Show me a Papal document which says ‘it is ok to beat up a fellow Catholic just because he does not agree with you’!

I for my part will continue to support minority groups who differ from my own values. I will uphold their rights to identify with whom so ever they chose, if anything all your beatings have made me even more resolved to uphold equality of opportunity, respect for and promoting of diversity, particularly when some are prepared to lie cheat and steal just to prosecute their own biased unauthenticated personal beliefs which exist only in their own mind and have no basis in either reality or teachings from Holy Church.

I do not intend to join a lodge but I will defend anyone’s right to do so, particularly as it is not opposed by Mother Church!

 

[Hellisreal]

Sixtus, again NO.

What part of Masonry not being compatible with the Catholic Church do you not understand?

This is worse than your thinking that the Catholic Church approves any and all baptisms Sixtus friend, brother.

At least you did not continue on that train of thought on that thread, but my goodness what is so hard to understand here?

Its not like the Church is saying your non catholicMason friends are going to burn in Hell, the Church is telling YOU that YOU can not be a Mason!

Rome has spoken Sixtus.
Case closed.:banghead:

 

[sphilomena]

Sixtus, again NO.

What part of Masonry not being compatible with the Catholic Church do you not understand?

This is worse than your thinking that the Catholic Church approves any and all baptisms Sixtus friend, brother.

At least you did not continue on that train of thought on that thread, but my goodness what is so hard to understand here?

Its not like the Church is saying your non catholicMason friends are going to burn in Hell, the Church is telling YOU that YOU can not be a Mason!

Rome has spoken Sixtus.
Case closed.:banghead:

Your icon says it all!! Those who keep pointing out what the Church TEACHES are banging their heads against a wall.

 

[Hellisreal]

Sixtus, can you accept the Church has your best interests in mind?
Do you think the Church is in error about this?

 

[Sixtus]

Hellisreal

Sixtus, again NO.

What part of Masonry not being compatible with the Catholic Church do you not understand?

The bit which eroniously says that I must hate my neighbour and do whatever I can to hurt him molest him abuse him and kill him. That is the bit I do not understand!

Perhaps you and Thistle could explain it to me. You see, I am not an abuser and therefore find abusing, very difficult.

I have worked with offenders for 20-years, I have never told anyone they are sinners, they are wrong, they are bad, they are evil. I have never said that, what I have said is ‘the law says…’! I ahve also told them that they are still loved by God! Now I know you find that heiniously evil that I promote the love of God, but I aint gonna change just to fit in with small minded self opinionated biggots so there you are

Rome does not forbid masonry. It forbids murder, rape and child sex abuse. I work with murderers and abusers and do you know, I treat them with the same love, kindness and respect that I feel for my own children. They after all are children of God, it is not for me to judge. I am not going to change that just because you have a different opinion.

I refuse to condemn anyone just because you and Thistle tell me I must hate then and hurt them because their beliefs differ from your own.

The way I see it is the small mindedness I encounted during the last discussion on freemasonry convinced me you need freemasons because you no longer have witches to burn!

If someone wants to be homosexual freemason communist Muslim, athiest, I may not agree with their choices but I will support and defend their freedom and right to self- determination and freedom of choice. That is the bit I do not understand in your arguement nor do I really care.

You have your view I have Christ’s.

May the peace of Christ bless you and Thistle now and always

 

[Hellisreal]

Sixtus, you slandered me. Where did I say you could not love your neighbor?

Where has the church said you had to shun them?

What are you saying here brother? What did I do to deserve this?

“You have your view, I have Christ’s.”

??

Are you saying I dont?

 

[StevenFrancis]

Simple question.

Not that simple of an answer:

vatican.va/holy_father/leo_xiii/encyclicals/documents/hf_l-xiii_enc_08121892_custodi-di-quella-fede_en.html

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19850223_declaration-masonic_articolo_en.html

vatican.va/holy_father/leo_xiii/encyclicals/documents/hf_l-xiii_enc_18901015_dall%27alto-dell%27apostolico-seggio_en.html

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/cfaith/documents/rc_con_cfaith_doc_19831126_declaration-masonic_en.html

These documents are very helpful in understanding,

Peace to you,

Steven

 

[Erich]

"Sixtus:

I do not intend to join a lodge but I will defend anyone’s right to do so, particularly as it is not opposed by Mother Church!

From Irreconcilability between Christian faith and Freemasonry

        Precisely by considering all these elements, the Declaration of the  Sacred Congregation affirms that membership in Masonic associations **«remains  forbidden by the Church»**, and the faithful who enrolls in them **«are in a state  of grave sin and may not receive Holy Communion»**.

Rome does not forbid masonry.

From Humanum Genus

1. For as soon as the constitution and the spirit of the masonic sect were clearly discovered by manifest signs of its actions, by the investigation of its causes, by publication of its laws, and of its rites and commentaries, with the addition often of the personal testimony of those who were in the secret, this apostolic see denounced the sect of the Freemasons, and publicly declared its constitution, as contrary to law and right, to be pernicious no less to Christiandom than to the State; and it forbade any one to enter the society, under the penalties which the Church is wont to inflict upon exceptionally guilty persons.

There are plenty more references like these… but you don’t have to take my word for it… just google [freemasonry site:vatican.va]

A good tree cannot produce bad fruit, nor a bad tree produce good fruit.

 

[Sixtus]

Hellisreal posted:

Its not like the Church is saying your non catholic Mason friends are going to burn in Hell, the Church is telling YOU that YOU can not be a Mason!

The above not relevant. I am not asking for your permission to be a mason.If I chose to become one. You are telling me I must hate my neighbour for being a mason, that I am evil for associating with masons. That is what the thrust of the attack is against me and that is what your associates including Thistle is saying.

The poster after you cited various documents which appear to forbid me to associate with freemasons. We have been here before, but faithfully, I have emailed them on to the canon lawyer for another validation. He is currently on leave. He will not get my email for at least another week. I will keep you informed upon his return about whether the CC says its members are forbidden to associate, love and respect their neighbour because of their affiliations.

I have never said that I am a mason. I have only said that I have family and friends who are masons. You keep telling me that freemasonry and CC are incompatible. If I am not a mason then the arguement can only be ‘that CC says it is wrong to associate with masons’. That is what you are saying. That is not slander.

My dear hellisreal, I would never slander you. I love you, you are my brother.

You in fact slandered me. You said that I am wrong for associating with, loving and treating as equal with respect to dignity those who are freemasons. You were supported in that statement by Thistle and others, who also condemn me because I do not condemn others for their associations.

Then you raise irrelevant variables from other threads to use as a stick to beat me with to substantiate your arguement that I am wrong to love my friends whose lifestyle choices are different from my own. I will never abandon my friends.

I have friends very dear to me who are Muslim, athiest, agnostic, Protestant, I do not judge them and I certainly would never tell them they are wrong with whom they associate.

 

[Hellisreal]

Hellisreal posted:

The above not relevant. I am not asking for your permission to be a mason.If** I chose to become one**. You are telling me I must **hate ****my neighbour **for being a mason, that I am evil for associating with masons. That is what the thrust of the attack is against me and that is what your associates including Thistle is saying.

The poster after you cited various documents which appear to forbid me to associate with freemasons. We have been here before, but faithfully, I have emailed them on to the canon lawyer for another validation. He is currently on leave. He will not get my email for at least another week. I will keep you informed upon his return about whether the CC says its members are forbidden to associate, love and respect their neighbour because of their affiliations.

I have never said that I am a mason. I have only said that I have family and friends who are masons. You keep telling me that freemasonry and CC are incompatible. If I am not a mason then the arguement can only be ‘that CC says it is wrong to associate with masons’. That is what you are saying. That is not slander.

My dear hellisreal, I would never slander you. I love you, you are my brother.

You in fact slandered me. You said that I am wrong for associating with, loving and treating as equal with respect to dignity those who are freemasons. You were supported in that statement by Thistle and others, who also condemn me because I do not condemn others for their associations.
Then you raise irrelevant variables from other threads to use as a stick to beat me with to substantiate your arguement that I am wrong to love my friends whose lifestyle choices are different from my own. I will never abandon my friends.

I have friends very dear to me who are Muslim, athiest, agnostic, Protestant, I do not judge them and I certainly would never tell them they are wrong with whom they associate.

Sixtus, what posts can you point to that say any of the things here you accuse me of?

Nevermind.

Incompatibility is not my worry. Your being a cheerleader for Masonry and causing posters here unfamilliar with the Church’s stand on this matter could lead someone to sin.

You do not need a canon lawyer Sixtus. You need to stop protesting.

Good night.

 

[thistle]

Thistle posted:

I am sorry Thistle but you are completly in error.

No way does Holy Mother Church forbid Catholics from being freemasons any more than she does being members of golf club.

You forget that the last time this was raised, someone posted documents allegedly from Rome with a ‘Roman’ seal on them which proved to be forgeries. I think it is rather sad that fellow Catholics are so desperate to prosecute their position that they are prepared to forge Vatican documents to prove their case.

That is actually a very serious crime and ‘the ends definitely do not justify the means!’

Anyone can hold onto supersitious belief lies fantasies and self deception. What you cannot do is expect the Vatican to endorse it. By the guidance of the Holy Spirit, Holy Church does not forbid members from being freemasons. Any view to the contrary is not authentic Catholic teaching.

I will not discuss personal points of view which have no basis in reality. If anyone is so predjudiced then that is between them and Almighty God. As for His Holy Church, they cannot use the Church to prosecute their own self-deception.

Don’t forget, I had this checked out by a canon lawyer in union with Rome! I do not think that her teachers of the law would err

Well Sixtus I think you have a real problem.

The Papal Encyclical of Pope Leo XIII Humanum Genus is real and not a forgery and also real are the documents from the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith. To think otherwise you are living in a fantasy world!! The Vatican website is a fake and all documents found there are forgeries?? Give us a break and get real.
Also to suggest as you have in this forum to other posters that because the Church forbids you to become a Freemason it means you are being told to hate your neighbour is absolutely ludicrous. You are totally wrong in what you think the Church teaches on this matter. **

THE CHURCH CLEARLY TEACHES THAT CATHOLICS CANNOT BE FREEMASONS. IF THEY BECOME A FREEMASON THEN THEY HAVE COMMITTED A GRAVE SIN.**