Why is so much importance placed on our state at the moment of death

  • Thread starter Thread starter oliver109
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
oliver109 said:
We don’t know what God knows and in that case does that mean we can make an assumption that people are willing to die in their sins and go to Hell? every sinner i have spoken to has told me that they do not want to die in their sins, it only seems fair to me that God will grant that wish.
Click to expand...
Sorrow for sin may be from fear of punishment but also may be perfect contrition when predominately out of love. Imperfect contrition is not sufficient for forgiveness of sins. There is a difference of motive. Love must be foremost. The Church teaches that outside of the confessional, imperfect contrition does not forgive mortal sins.

Catechism of the Catholic Church
1844 By charity, we love God above all things and our neighbor as ourselves for love of God. Charity, the form of all the virtues, “binds everything together in perfect harmony” ( Col 3:14).
Click to expand...
 
Vico said:
The Church teaches that outside of the confessional, imperfect contrition does not forgive mortal sins.
Click to expand...
We know but God should still take into account someone’s desire for confession before he decides to save someone or condemn them to Hell.
 
It seems you are in favor of “confession by desire,” which seems reasonable given there is, I think, a concept of “baptism by desire.” So suppose your hypothetical person B was actually on their way to confession for a mortal sin but was killed en route? Would it then be just for them to go to hell? I think not. But I also think, as I stated above, that a person who has continuously gone to confession, but this one time has not yet done so, would still express the act of confession in their heart even if they did not have the intention of confessing their sin at that moment. In other words, they were given the grace to know they committed a mortal sin, and so they have already performed a perfect act of contrition, perhaps not outwardly but internally. Therefore they would be saved by a merciful Gd.
 
The bible seems to indicate you are judged by the life you lived not the last moment.
 
Absolutely, i think confession by desire makes perfect sense really, i believe that the only people who are out of reach of Gods mercy are those who really despair and believe they can never be forgiven, even they may i hope understand and accept Gods forgiveness though the Judas verdict does make me doubt that.
 
However, does the Church accept such a thing as confession by desire without an external perfect act of contrition?
 
Not at the moment though i don’t see why they wont consider to change the teaching.
 
On order for sin to be mortal, it must meet the three conditions.

Appreciation of beauty is not lust.

As someone once told me, you cannot keep the birds from flying overhead, but you can keep them from nesting in your hair.
 
Not that God CAN do nothing, because God is omnipotent. God will not force any person against their will.
 
oliver109 said:
a town rejects Jesus, they will be condemned, it is why the Jews suffered so much persecution through Europe in the middle ages because they were seen as Christ rejecters and therefore damned beings.
Click to expand...
Each individual is free to accept or reject. If everyone in my town rejects God, if everyone in my county or my country or in my universe rejects God, I am still free to live my life in friendship with Him.

About the middle ages, this is a whole nother thread, bottom line is that some people got it wrong, that does not mean every Christian got it wrong. Those who sinned by persecuting their fellow man are also free to repent and be saved.
 
oliver109 said:
48.png
Vico:
The Church teaches that outside of the confessional, imperfect contrition does not forgive mortal sins.
Click to expand...
We know but God should still take into account someone’s desire for confession before he decides to save someone or condemn them to Hell.
Click to expand...
Imperfect contrition does not imply a desire for confession, and a desire for sacramental confession alone is not sufficient. That attrition may make for justification, it must be interior (exclude the will to sin), supernatural (not by merely natural motives), universal (embrace all sins), and sovereign (sin hated above all other evil).
 
Last edited:
Well, I have some faithful Catholic friends in NYC, I know faithful non Catholic Christians in NYC, so, there is hope!!
 
oliver109 said:
48.png
Vico:
a desire for sacramental confession alone is not sufficient.
Click to expand...
Surely it should be sufficient for a person to avoid Hell?
Click to expand...
No, not per the teaching of the Catholic Church. The four qualities of contrition must be present. See the Council of Trent for one source. Also an article from the old Catholic Encyclopedia:
Hanna, E. (1907). Attrition. In The Catholic Encyclopedia. New York: Robert Appleton Company. CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Attrition
 
Last edited:
Someone who desires confession would not be turned away by God just because the Church teaches that there is no hope for them? Can it be impossible for God to offer that person the reception of the sacrament before they die?
 
oliver109 said:
though the Judas verdict does make me doubt that.
Click to expand...
What Judas verdict? The Church has never declared that Judas is in hell. Many hold that opinion, however, it is opinion.
oliver109 said:
be turned away by God just because the Church teaches that there is no hope for them?
Click to expand...
The Church offers hope for every person to repent while they are alive.

And, please, stop saying that my God “cannot do” things.
 
Last edited:
oliver109 said:
Someone who desires confession would not be turned away by God just because the Church teaches that there is no hope for them? Can it be impossible for God to offer that person the reception of the sacrament before they die?
Click to expand...
The issue is not if there is an offer, but the quality of the contrition of the person.
 
Someone with imperfect contrition is interested in the idea of getting saved and seeking reconciliation with God, as far as i am aware the only people who cannot be saved are those who despair of the idea that God can save them or those who intend to sin and intend to keep sinning.
 
oliver109 said:
Someone with imperfect contrition is interested in the idea of getting saved and seeking reconciliation with God, as far as i am aware the only people who cannot be saved are those who despair of the idea that God can save them or those who intend to sin and intend to keep sinning.
Click to expand...
That is called final impenitence.

Attrition with imperfect or interested motives, if it excludes the will to sin, and there is hope of pardon, can be proper sorrow in the sacrament of confession or the sacrament of the anointing of the sick (where the person cannot confess due to lack of consciousness). Also in baptism sorrow of this kind is sufficient.

Luke 13
24 Strive to enter by the narrow gate; for many, I say to you, shall seek to enter, and shall not be able.
Click to expand...
Catechism of the Catholic Church
1013 Death is the end of man’s earthly pilgrimage, of the time of grace and mercy which God offers him so as to work out his earthly life in keeping with the divine plan, and to decide his ultimate destiny. …
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top