Why is so much importance placed on our state at the moment of death

[Vico]

… it is profoundly unfair that God could not or was not able to save that person (how can God not be able?) could not give person B another chance.

God is not able to save someone for He wills that the person have free will. How can one say that God is not knowing or loving enough that, unknown to humans, the life of a person is extended such that another choice is given? Note that grace is not irresistible. No person through human nature alone deserves the Beatific Vision. There must be the free choice of charity by the end of the life for that.

Try reading Persona Humana from CDF, 1975, and note the following from it:

A person therefore sins mortally not only when his action comes from direct contempt for love of God and neighbor, but also when he consciously and freely, for whatever reason, chooses something which is seriously disordered. For in this choice, as has been said above, there is already included contempt for the Divine commandment: the person turns himself away from God and loses charity.

https://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/...on_cfaith_doc_19751229_persona-humana_en.html

 

[oliver109]

How has God managed to save any sinners in that case if their free will turned against him? in other words if God can save say 70% of sinners, is it really a stretch for him to save the other 30% or are they so wedded to sin that they will never want to repent no matter how many chances they get?

 

[po18guy]

Freedom! God is huge on freedom. He needs nothing. Not creation, not justice, not anything at all, because He lacks nothing. Now, as to love - which God is, must be freely chosen. If we can choose to love Hm, we can also choose not to love Him - that is the generosity of His freedom. Yet, choices have both consequences and costs.

Now, suppose that you are in heaven and you can see your entire family in hell. Will you be sad?

No! Because, once you enjoy the Beatific Vision, you will have complete appreciation of both God’s mercy and His justice. Since His justice is perfect, and is a trait of the God Whom you now love with perfection, you will marvel at the perfection of His justice. No sadness in heaven!

 

[oliver109]

No! Because, once you enjoy the Beatific Vision, you will have complete appreciation of both God’s mercy and His justice. Since His justice is perfect, and is a trait of the God Whom you now love with perfection, you will marvel at the perfection of His justice. No sadness in heaven!

I don’t see how that would make sense, especially when i chose against God at times during my life, why should i be saved and the rest of my family not saved because of the mere timing of our deaths, it does not make any sense does it?

 

[po18guy]

Perfect sense! We are cautioned to “watch” - to be ready at any and all moments of our lives. For that reason we spread the Gospel of Christ. Using the gift of our free will, we can repent, do penance and restore our relationship with God. By your way of thinking, since we are all born with the lack, the absence which is called original sin, we would all be doomed, would be not?

Greater context: Love and freedom. We must avoid applying human logic to divine things, even though it is our nature to do so.

 

[Vico]

How has God managed to save any sinners in that case if their free will turned against him? in other words if God can save say 70% of sinners, is it really a stretch for him to save the other 30% or are they so wedded to sin that they will never want to repent no matter how many chances they get?

It is logically impossible to save those that do not have charity. All those saved are due to the gift of grace, however that gift can be resisted so as to become unfruitful: “the predestined are the partial cause of their eternal happiness”.

From Catholic Encyclopedia:

Owing to the infallible decisions laid down by the Church, every orthodox theory on predestination and reprobation must keep within the limits marked out by the following theses:
a) At least in the order of execution in time (in ordine executionis) the meritorious works of the predestined are the partial cause of their eternal happiness;
b) hell cannot even in the order of intention (in ordine intentionis) have been positively decreed to the damned, even though it is inflicted on them in time as the just punishment of their misdeeds;
c) there is absolutely no predestination to sin as a means to eternal damnation.

Pohle, J. (1911). Predestination. In The Catholic Encyclopedia. New York: Robert Appleton Company. CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Predestination

 

[oliver109]

God’s grace can be resisted but God will grant certain people so much grace that they will always end up persevering, like our Lady for example, she had abundant grace and chose God and chose everything God intended for her, she had so much grace she never sinned once, if everyone had the same amount of grace they would have lived as blameless a life as Mary.

And this:
“Owing to the infallible decisions laid down by the Church, every orthodox theory on predestination and reprobation must keep within the limits marked out by the following theses:
a) At least in the order of execution in time ( in ordine executionis ) the meritorious works of the predestined are the partial cause of their eternal happiness;
b) hell cannot even in the order of intention ( in ordine intentionis ) have been positively decreed to the damned, even though it is inflicted on them in time as the just punishment of their misdeeds;
c) there is absolutely no predestination to sin as a means to eternal damnation.”

Does not explain why some are given the grace of final perseverance while others are not.

 

[po18guy]

Often, we lack grace because we fail to seek it. And, moment of death is the bare minimum. Like walking on the ledge of a skyscraper. You are safe, but one misstep and you’re gone. Better to live life inside the building, within the bounds of charity. Even then you rely on God’s grace, but we revel in the virtue of hope! A sure hope, a realistic hope. We dare not test the Lord by hoping for salvation while living a continually sinful life.

 

[oliver109]

We dare not test the Lord by hoping for salvation while living a continually sinful life.

Even the worst sinners may have the hope that one day they will stop sinning, only the really wicked love their sin so much that they want to live with it forever.

 

[po18guy]

Sin can indeed be overpowering - but God’s grace is infinitely - ponder the word infinitely - stronger than sin. God does not require that we triumph over sin. He does not. He asks that we strive against it; that we engage in a struggle for our souls and not fall into despair - which is sin added to sin. How can we ever attain to heaven? He stands in the gap when we fail during our struggle.

Have you read the Book of Tobit? Excellent. Virtually every conceivable human experience is in there - including the temptation to despair, but “some have entertained angels, unawares” and God’s love and mercy are revealed.

I think, hopefully wrongly, that you are tending to look down. Look up to the perfection of God and simply strive and trust. That is enough.

 

[Swordsman]

I believe this is why some explore innovations that seem to provide more reassurance, like Luther (faith alone) and those who have followed many hundreds of years after him (once-saved, always-saved).

As opposed to the OP’s idea of God taking one’s entire life into account compared with simply one’s state at death, these theologies suggest the lifetime of good or bad matters very little, compared with the one, intentional act of putting faith in Jesus Christ.

But, as I said, they are innovations.

 

[oliver109]

I look up, some say too much as they accuse me of being presumptuous, i believe in justice and fairness which is why i think that the way Hell and damnation is presented in the church just is not very just as it leaves as a possibility that people who have actually strived against sin may end up dying in their sin, it is unfair and it shows that God may not always reward the strivers if they dare put a foot wrong.

 

[po18guy]

Methinks you are presuming way too much. Have you spoken with a really good priest about this? And unless you have a terminal diagnosis or something, the four last things are indeed crucial, but they - or rather fear of them - does not not not drive the Christian! Love and joy do! Even though we may have eyes for failure, we must have a heart for peace, love and joy.

 

[PioBenedict]

It is possible I’ve missed something as I’ve only been able to give a cursory glance through the comments at the moment, but I have seen a lot of complaint that God is unfair for ignoring a life of good and damning someone for a sin committed before death. Yet I don’t see - either in this thread or in real life conversation - much complaint that God is unfair for ignoring a life of sin yet still saving someone for repenting before death. Why do we resist God’s justice more than we do His mercy?

This isn’t an adequate response to the original question, but I thought it at least worthy of some note.

 

[oliver109]

I think it is because it makes sense for God to forgive someone after a life of sin as God wanted that person in Heaven from the beginning, it does not make sense for God to refuse mercy for someone he wanted in Heaven from day one.

 

[Vico]

…
Does not explain why some are given the grace of final perseverance while others are not.

God does not override the free will. Grace is given and when resisted is called sufficient grace but then cooperated with is called efficacious grace. Both resistance and cooperation are free will actions, and that is why the person is the partial cause of their eternal happiness.

 

[AlNg]

The thief on the cross–honored as St. Dismas–clearly expressed his penitence to Christ and accepted his punishment on his own cross as just redress for his sins.

Did he go directly to heaven, or did he have to endure the pains of purgatory first?

 

[AlNg]

When a person commits mortal sin, they want that sin instead of God.

I don’t see that in all cases. When a man looks with lust at a beautiful woman, he feels attraction to the woman, but at the same time he does not want to reject God. He is only appreciating the beauty of nature but with lust. He does not want to reject God. Is it not true that from Holy Scripture, when a man looks with lust at a woman, he has already committed the mortal sin of adultery ?

 

[meltzerboy2]

They may NOT “end up dying in their sin.” From the outside, the observer, it may appear this is the case, but that “striving” which you talk about may indeed carry over until death. Remember, according to Catholic belief, the sin needs to be grave, fully consented to, and the penitence lacking completely. I wonder whether the latter is so if the individual has strived all their life against sin. Gd reads our hearts in their entirety, not only our external behavior.

 

[PioBenedict]

There is a chasm between being appreciating the beauty of a person and lust. Lust is a rejection of God in that it takes what He has created and reorients it towards the fulfillment of selfish desire, even at the expense of the other person.

For a sin to be mortal, it has to involve choosing the sin over God. If there is no knowledge of gravity and full consent of the will, then the sin is not mortal.