Why is so much importance placed on our state at the moment of death

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oliver109 said:
It still seems profoundly unfair to me for God to condemn someone because they happened to die after commiting a mortal sin, take two people A and B, they both live lives where they sin, then repent, sin then repent, they both struggle against the sinful temptations of life but person A goes to confession one day, dies after leaving confession and is rewarded with heaven while person B goes to confession, leaves confession, sins then dies suddenly and goes to Hell, it is profoundly unfair that God could not or was not able to save that person(how can God not be able?) could not give person B another chance.
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Give God more credit. God knows everything about both A and B down to the most intimate detail, and God acts with perfect justice. We may not understand it until everything is laid out at the General Judgment, but in the end no one will be able to blame God for the fate of anyone who is damned, nor praise anyone but God for the salvation of the saints.
 
I think the way the church teaches on the subject now does make it seem unfair, maybe we will not see it as unfair on the day of judgement but to see someone die after committing a mortal sin just seems heartbreaking, especially as there was really nothing to stop God from ensuring that the sinner got a chance to confess their sins before dying, maybe God never wanted them in Heaven in the first place?
 
It has been revealed to us in Scripture that God wants everyone in Heaven. And indeed, according to just about the first question in all the classic catechisms, the whole reason He made each and every one of us was to join Him for eternity.

We’re not Calvinists. Even the position on free will that emphasizes God’s sovereignty does not recognize predestination to Hell. No one was made just to be a negative lesson to others, even if that is how some might ultimately end up by their own choices.
 
And why on earth are you assuming —and it IS an assumption—that the person in mortal sin does NOT repent before death?

Have you ever been in a situation where you for example come very close to being hit by a car? The old saw about ‘your life flashing in front of your eyes’ even if it is literally ‘nanoseconds’ is true. You seem to think that a person won’t have ‘time’ to repent. How do you know? Doesn’t science itself show us that there is brain death and organ death etc and that it can take several minutes to know for sure that death is irreversible in a person?

I think you are trying to both limit God, and to limit people too, into thinking that there are situations where a person has ‘no time’ or ‘no chance’ to choose. . .
 
When you buy a new car, do you pop in at any point along the assembly line and declare it to be “good enough” Even if it has no engine or doors? The finished product is the only vehicle acceptable for a journey into eternity.
 
oliver109 said:
That is the Molinist understanding, just one of two viewpoints regarding this matter, the other one is that God could save everyone but chooses not to as he does not have to for his own reasons.
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I don’t think this is accurately portraying the Molinist/Thomistic (and the other acceptable opinions) divide very much at all, and I do not want to accept the nomination of Molinist.
The Thomistic position is NOT that God predestines anyone to hell, but that He DOES predestine the Elect to Heaven. But this is a different topic, which I’m sure someone else can describe better.
I am pretty sure the teaching in both camps is that God DOES give EVERYONE sufficient grace.
 
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It is true that scripture reveals a God that wants everyone saved, why then do saints Aquinas and Augustine imply that God lets people die in their sins because God needs to manifest his justice? St Aquinas even said that the presence of sinners in Hell will make people in Heaven more grateful for his mercy.
 
oliver109 said:
I like your optimism here but i have to disagree with your idea that God does not play a game of gotcha, St Aquinas said that God can let anyone die in their sins if he wishes, even if they were a good person in their life with only sinning sometimes. St Aquinas even said that we will benefit in Heaven from seeing people in Hell in their torments and we will thank God there for the mercy he has shown us and the justice he showed the damned. No Catholic authority has ever said what St Aquinas was saying was wrong or unbiblical.
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Regarding the second part, we will understand that the damnation of the damned was perfectly right and just and will therefore glorify God for it. Just like we can be glad justice is done, but not be glad for the evils that led it.

God can certainly let someone die in their sins who is seeking to follow His will without it being contrary to justice–since grace is a gift. But again, the question is does He do this. Christ’s parables and the whole of salvation history–where God constantly calls His people to repentance and always accepts a contrite heart–tells us the answer. Even if ultimately not many are saved, it is because too many persevered in impenitence, not because God laid snares or didn’t provide the means of salvation.
 
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Genesis315 said:
Even if ultimately not many are saved, it is because too many persevered in impenitence, not because God laid snares or didn’t provide the means of salvation.
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Couldn’t that be the case of every sinner that was saved, i doubt the thief on the cross was not someone who did not persevere in impenitence in their life.
 
oliver109 said:
It might help our understanding, make us less stressed about a controversial topic,
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It doesn’t seem to me that it should be controversial at all. The basic facts are known. And no matter how much information is revealed, some will try to come up with fanciful scenarios to test the limits of revelation, or simply to try to come up with some angle that they fondly imagine is original.
 
oliver109 said:
Couldn’t that be the case of every sinner that was saved, i doubt the thief on the cross was not someone who did not persevere in impenitence in their life.
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The thief on the cross–honored as St. Dismas–clearly expressed his penitence to Christ and accepted his punishment on his own cross as just redress for his sins.
 
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Absolutely he did, i don’t see how it is impossible for all sinners to embrace Christ eventually.
 
When a person commits mortal sin, they want that sin instead of God. They choose to reject Him. As long as they are alive, they can also choose to repent.

Only God knows when each of us will die.

As long as we don’t reject God, we do not have to fret about that death coming when we are in mortal sin.
 
oliver109 said:
No Catholic authority has ever said what St Aquinas was saying was wrong or unbiblical.
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St Aquinas wrote many things that are useful to many people, however, he was not writing ex cathedra statements. He was writing his learned opinions.
oliver109 said:
St Aquinas said that God can let anyone die in their sins if he wishes,
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Remember 2 Peter chapter 3 that God does not want anyone to go to hell (I advise reading the entire chapter):


The Lord does not delay his promise, as some regard “delay,” but he is patient with you, not wishing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

But the day of the Lord will come like a thief, and then the heavens will pass away with a mighty roar and the elements will be dissolved by fire, and the earth and everything done on it will be found out.

snip

Therefore, beloved, since you are forewarned, be on your guard not to be led into the error of the unprincipled and to fall from your own stability.
 
St Paul seemed to be implying there that God has a time limit so to speak to save people, so if sinner A takes too long to repent God has no choice but to say “your time is up, you have to face judgment now, i cannot wait any longer, after all it is not like there is enough time in eternity”
 
St Paul is telling us that WE have a time limit. If we live our lives in friendship with God, if we have perfect contrition, we do not have to fret about death one bit.

My husband died young. He was by not means a saint in this life, he was a Catholic who sinned and went to confession and continued on the path. When he lay dying, he was granted the Apostolic Pardon. I’ve not doubted for one second that he is in heaven, because I trust what the Church says to be true.
 
My condolences go to you regarding your husband, am sorry to hear that. Back on topic So a time limit is inevitable? do you think that time limit is stopping God from saving more souls who may have repented had they been granted a longer period of trial?
 
God is Omnipotent.

The time limit is what encourages us to repent and walk in God’s friendship.

God is not the enemy, God is a loving Father who is waiting, as did the father of the prodigal son, to welcome me back every time I sin.
 
How do you know God does this? I like to think that if He knows you’ll repent 5 minutes later, he will preserve your life for another 5 minutes… and I don’t see why it has to be either / or. When we repent, it is by grace. Perhaps God will give you the grace of perfect contrition on your death bed BECAUSE He sees all the good you did and all the prayers you said during your life.
 
I don’t know for certain, it is just the way it is presented in general by the church and the huge body of her saints, take for example St Alphonsus Liguori talking about God only forgiving a certain number of sins before he condemns someone
https://www.olrl.org/snt_docs/num_sins.shtml
 
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