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Jen95
Guest
What about men who “father” dozens of children?
Hoe about a limit of say, two or three kids per man?
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Hoe about a limit of say, two or three kids per man?
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Nononony
Guest
But “they can come and take your child back” ISN’T a myth my dear. I know someone it happened to three times! It’s something anyone exiting the painful world of infertility and moving toward the hopeful world of adoption needs to contend with because it can and does happen, and it’s a death. The people who go through it deal with a huge load of disenfranchised grief on top of the disenfranchised grief of whatever brought them to adoption in the first place. (Unless they just have a heart to adopt with is a completely different situation.)
The idea that “foster children” are “less than” isn’t just insulting to “foster children” but to couples who decide against adopting those kids. When a couple is looking at adoption they need to consider, very carefully, what sort of challenges they are able to take on. Do they have the patience, skills and support to raise a child that comes with challenges like drug addiction? Violent histories? Abuse? Unknown medical needs? Abandonment issues? If the adoption is open are the parents ready and willing to take on a whole extended family? Do they have the strength of character to set boundaries if that extended family turns out to be toxic? If the potential child is of a different race will they face racism in the potential parent’s extended family? Community?
Yes, these are ugly questions. But it is uglier to close our eyes to the issue and do it anyway so we can fill a hole in our heart. It is worse for the child to go to parents who are lying to themselves. And it is terrible to assume the couples who forego foster adoption do it because those kids are “less than.”
Adoptive parents need to make sure that they are adopting a child for the correct reason. Is it to fill a hole in themselves? Their marriage? Or is it because they want to love and foster another human being? Can they go into it completely selflessly? Can they love this tiny person unconditionally no matter what comes? Is there any spec of regret, remorse, resentment at the idea of adoption? If there is, adoption is a no-go. But it isn’t because anyone is “less than.” It’s because it’s not a correct fit yet.
How do I know? Because I’ve lived this experience and, full disclosure, I am without children. Why? Because not adopting was the right choice for me, my spouse, the possible future child we did not adopt, and the actual adoptive parents of the child whom we did not adopt. Believe me, coming to the conclusion that we should not adopt was excruciating. And while it may seem selfish, it was actually selfless.
I don’t expect others to understand that, but am thankful to anyone who tries.
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FeminaBellator
Guest
There is little consideration given to the donor conceived persons. People believe wanted means loved and that’s all that is needed. I can’t tell you how often people reminded me, “you were so wanted.” If only it were that simple, but human beings are complicated.
There is a documentary on HBO called “Baby God.” This is a quote from it:
“People who don’t share DNA with their parents and don’t know they don’t share DNA with their parents may feel that they’re not just different but somehow wrong.”
Brad Gulko
From my earliest memories I have felt wrong, out of place, flawed. A priest told me in confession that my conception created a wound on my soul. I could feel it but never knew the cause. Perhaps there’s something to that. Of course, not all DCP feel the same or have the same experiences.
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TheLittleLady
Guest
In the modern USA, this only happens in private adoptions. Foster kids are not placed for adoption until the parental rights have been severed.
Absolutely agree. It takes great humility and love to make that decision. You are a hero for having being so very honest in your decision.
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Nononony
Guest
Yes, that is how the situations I’ve seen have happened, but there are similar issues in the foster care route. Foster kids aren’t “available” for adoption until the parental rights have been severed, but they can be placed with families who are looking to adopt and those placements can last for years before parental rights are finally severed. And sometimes it looks like the rights will finally be severed only for it to not happen at the very last second because the biological parent does whatever needs to be done to maintain the rights at the last possible moment.
I know people who’ve gone through that too and even though they KNOW the child may never become their legal family they love the child like family so when the potential for a potential adoption falls through and the child goes home it is a death. I know a family who had that happen with their son three times before he became part of their “forever family.” The bio-mom would pull together just long enough to maintain her rights and it was like a death every time for the foster parents. But no one understood and kept telling them to “just give up on that one.”
But they couldn’t because in their heart “that one” was like their child… and even if he’d gone home for good they were always going to love him… and bio-mom was hurting someone they loved.The mother of that family told me it was like war and if they’d known what it was going to be like before they’d started down the path they may never have chosen the path. They’re thankful they did now though.
(Not trying to disrespect parents with children in the foster care system… we’re all humans with challenges… and we love our kids no matter what the difficulties of our lives are like.)
Thank you for your kind response. It’s such a complicated painful issue… but also not really on the topic of this post.
Sorry. I got kind of triggered… 
and I’m a little passionate when I’m triggered… but I just want people to know how deep the issue goes… because when people know how deep an issue goes they can react more kindly if ever they personally know someone who is living it. And that helps everyone.Officially off soapbox.
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Canvas
Guest
It is weird—you have to jump through hoops to take in orphans or neglected and abandoned children, but the state doesn’t put up many roadblocks for IVF or surrogate parenting.
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Pattylt
Guest
I’ll leave that to regulatory agencies. I have no idea if that would be a good or bad idea. I could make the case that a man that has fathered many children would allow a woman to have knowledge of how intelligent, good looking or even genetic problems he might produce. On the other had, a woman should be able to decide if she wants children with half siblings all over the place. It might just be best to let the woman know if her donor has hundreds or only two and she decides which she prefers?
There are so many ethical issues surround this industry! I’m not an expert in ethics by any stretch but I’m also not bound to religious issues with it. Like you, I can ask questions but I have no idea what the good answers even are!
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FeminaBellator
Guest
[/quote]
I’ll leave that to regulatory agencies. I have no idea if that would be a good or bad idea. I could make the case that a man that has fathered many children would allow a woman to have knowledge of how intelligent, good looking or even genetic problems he might produce. On the other had, a woman should be able to decide if she wants children with half siblings all over the place. It might just be best to let the woman know if her donor has hundreds or only two and she decides which she prefers?
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Perhaps asking donor conceived people their opinions?
I’ll leave that to regulatory agencies. I have no idea if that would be a good or bad idea. I could make the case that a man that has fathered many children would allow a woman to have knowledge of how intelligent, good looking or even genetic problems he might produce. On the other had, a woman should be able to decide if she wants children with half siblings all over the place. It might just be best to let the woman know if her donor has hundreds or only two and she decides which she prefers?
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Perhaps asking donor conceived people their opinions?
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Pattylt
Guest
I imagine you’d get a range of answers to that question. I’m adopted and have nothing but wonderful experience of adoption. I was told I was adopted from the get go. It was never a hidden secret at all but knew nothing of my biological parents until two years ago when ancestry.com linked up my full blooded sister and I. I now have some medical knowledge and four full blood brothers and sister (one of each has passed) as well as pictures. Even all of that doesn’t change my opinion on adoption nor would it have been necessarily helpful to know all this earlier in my life.
And yet, there are also awful adoption stories as some have mentioned. Certainly, hearing the stories of donor children would be important to hear. I’m just not sure conclusions could be drawn from them. For some, it made them feel different and for some it didn’t matter at all. I wasn’t biologically related to my family and never looked like anyone but it really didn’t matter to me…this was the only family I had and knew…and it’d be the same with donor children…good stories, bad stories and indifferent ones. I don’t feel qualified to discuss the ethics of either because I’m only one story and there’s a full range of them out there.
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FeminaBellator
Guest
I’m donor conceived and for the most part little is understood about our experiences though there are similarities with adoptees. I’m not sure a recipient parent’s preference is valuable either. I personally don’t understand why anyone thinks intentionally creating a human being to separate from one or both parents isn’t problematic.FeminaBellator:
I imagine you’d get a range of answers to that question. I’m adopted and have nothing but wonderful experience of adoption. I was told I was adopted from the get go. It was never a hidden secret at all but knew nothing of my biological parents until two years ago when ancestry.com linked up my full blooded sister and I. I now have some medical knowledge and four full blood brothers and sister (one of each has passed) as well as pictures. Even all of that doesn’t change my opinion on adoption nor would it have been necessarily helpful to know all this earlier in my life.
And yet, there are also awful adoption stories as some have mentioned. Certainly, hearing the stories of donor children would be important to hear. I’m just not sure conclusions could be drawn from them. For some, it made them feel different and for some it didn’t matter at all. I wasn’t biologically related to my family and never looked like anyone but it really didn’t matter to me…this was the only family I had and knew…and it’d be the same with donor children…good stories, bad stories and indifferent ones. I don’t feel qualified to discuss the ethics of either because I’m only one story and there’s a full range of them out there.
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Pattylt
Guest
I’m curious and don’t answer if you wish…did you ever discuss any of this with your parents? Most women that use sperm donors are doing so for a variety of reasons but I’d assume the top ones are the great desire to have a child and infertility with their spouse. Did you have a mother and father growing up?
Most children do best with two parents but I’m not sure I’d qualify that with them having to be your biological parents. Jesus Himself had an adopted father. Many fathers adopt their wife’s previous children. Many children prefer their adopted father to their real fathers in cases where they know him.
I realize you have/had issue around being donor conceived but I have no knowledge that your experience is typical or unusual. Are their FB groups or similar for donor conceived children where this could be explored?
Years ago, I joined a BB for adoptees and was actually pleased that my experiences were the norm. Some were quite different and all of us went through a period in our late teens/early adulthood of wanting to seek out our biological parents…and it passed away with time. I don’t know if you’ve tried this nor if it would be beneficial for you. Perhaps your feelings are transitory or a true problem.
I gathered from an earlier comment that you were unaware of your status? I do think hidden secrets, while probably well intended, are often harmful. Do you think you’d feel different had you always known?
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FeminaBellator
Guest
[/quote]
I’m curious and don’t answer if you wish…did you ever discuss any of this with your parents? Most women that use sperm donors are doing so for a variety of reasons but I’d assume the top ones are the great desire to have a child and infertility with their spouse. Did you have a mother and father growing up?
Most children do best with two parents but I’m not sure I’d qualify that with them having to be your biological parents. Jesus Himself had an adopted father. Many fathers adopt their wife’s previous children. Many children prefer their adopted father to their real fathers in cases where they know him.
I realize you have/had issue around being donor conceived but I have no knowledge that your experience is typical or unusual. Are their FB groups or similar for donor conceived children where this could be explored?
Years ago, I joined a BB for adoptees and was actually pleased that my experiences were the norm. Some were quite different and all of us went through a period in our late teens/early adulthood of wanting to seek out our biological parents…and it passed away with time. I don’t know if you’ve tried this nor if it would be beneficial for you. Perhaps your feelings are transitory or a true problem.
I gathered from an earlier comment that you were unaware of your status? I do think hidden secrets, while probably well intended, are often harmful. Do you think you’d feel different had you always known?
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I don’t mind answering questions. Honestly, I appreciate you asking. My parents are deceased. I was aware my parents used artificial inseminations to conceive, but they denied using a donor. My dad had a vasectomy during his first marriage and the reversal failed. I was raised by both parents.
There are several Facebook groups for DCP as well as people who discover they aren’t the biological children of one or both parents.
I don’t think it would have mattered if I’d always known based on my own personality. As you noted in your earlier comment, the experiences vary. There are those who have always known and feel similar to me. There are those who discover the truth as I did and feel different than I. I believe a child has a right to know and preferably be raise by both biological parents. That is not always possible or in the best interest of the child, but those exception cases should not be used to support DC but cause us to pause and consider what is best for the person created. Although I’d prefer to see an end to the use of donor gametes, I’d be happy to see the end of anonymous donors.
For me, I make sense since discovering my genetic identity. I don’t know how else to describe it. It has been liberating. It is not uncommon for DCP to describe feeling different from their social family.
I’m curious and don’t answer if you wish…did you ever discuss any of this with your parents? Most women that use sperm donors are doing so for a variety of reasons but I’d assume the top ones are the great desire to have a child and infertility with their spouse. Did you have a mother and father growing up?
Most children do best with two parents but I’m not sure I’d qualify that with them having to be your biological parents. Jesus Himself had an adopted father. Many fathers adopt their wife’s previous children. Many children prefer their adopted father to their real fathers in cases where they know him.
I realize you have/had issue around being donor conceived but I have no knowledge that your experience is typical or unusual. Are their FB groups or similar for donor conceived children where this could be explored?
Years ago, I joined a BB for adoptees and was actually pleased that my experiences were the norm. Some were quite different and all of us went through a period in our late teens/early adulthood of wanting to seek out our biological parents…and it passed away with time. I don’t know if you’ve tried this nor if it would be beneficial for you. Perhaps your feelings are transitory or a true problem.
I gathered from an earlier comment that you were unaware of your status? I do think hidden secrets, while probably well intended, are often harmful. Do you think you’d feel different had you always known?
[/quote]
I don’t mind answering questions. Honestly, I appreciate you asking. My parents are deceased. I was aware my parents used artificial inseminations to conceive, but they denied using a donor. My dad had a vasectomy during his first marriage and the reversal failed. I was raised by both parents.
There are several Facebook groups for DCP as well as people who discover they aren’t the biological children of one or both parents.
I don’t think it would have mattered if I’d always known based on my own personality. As you noted in your earlier comment, the experiences vary. There are those who have always known and feel similar to me. There are those who discover the truth as I did and feel different than I. I believe a child has a right to know and preferably be raise by both biological parents. That is not always possible or in the best interest of the child, but those exception cases should not be used to support DC but cause us to pause and consider what is best for the person created. Although I’d prefer to see an end to the use of donor gametes, I’d be happy to see the end of anonymous donors.
For me, I make sense since discovering my genetic identity. I don’t know how else to describe it. It has been liberating. It is not uncommon for DCP to describe feeling different from their social family.
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Pattylt
Guest
Thanks for your response. I’m not religious and haven’t heard any good arguments…actually, I don’t recall it being discussed much at all…for a secular reason to stop donations. I’m open to it being a wrong process but I also realize that the urge to have children is also extremely strong. I won’t comment further except to say thanks for bringing this to my attention. 
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phil19034
Guest
yes, it’s totally backwardsphil19034:
It is weird—you have to jump through hoops to take in orphans or neglected and abandoned children, but the state doesn’t put up many roadblocks for IVF or surrogate parenting.
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FeminaBellator
Guest
Thank you so much for asking and engaging! “We Are Donor Conceived” is a place to learn more about the challenges we face. It isn’t something most people talk about or hear about. Although I oppose the use of donor gametes, I believe in the best interest of the DCP as well as RPs and donors that we have transparency and knowledge about what it may mean to everyone’s future. As a parent, I think most of us want to be prepared as much as possible to help our children navigate this world but also the RPs and donors may face struggles and knowledge can better prepare them. The journey doesn’t end with the birth of the child. Humans are wonderfully complicated.Thanks for your response. I’m not religious and haven’t heard any good arguments…actually, I don’t recall it being discussed much at all…for a secular reason to stop donations. I’m open to it being a wrong process but I also realize that the urge to have children is also extremely strong. I won’t comment further except to say thanks for bringing this to my attention.
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Pattylt
Guest
Absolutely agree. Transparency is primary to donors, recipients and children produced all around. This can be said for many areas and organizations.
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adamhovey1988
Guest
Don’t know, but I would support outlawing it.
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Jen95
Guest
Couldn’t a case be made that these “fathers” are procreating children but not supporting them? If the Mom were to apply for government benefits, could it “go after” the father first, like it does with every other child support case?
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