why is sunday instead of saturday the sabboth?

[Church_Militant]

Hello ChurchMilitant

My favorite “one trick pony” is “Christ and Him crucified.” If a doctrine takes away from, or adds to this theme; it is not a Christian doctrine. I believe with all my heart that the Biblical seventh-day Sabbath does meet this minimum requirement, and more. “God forbid that I should glory, save in the cross of Jesus Christ my Lord.” (Gal.6:14).

Sorry, but I sure can’t tell from your posts and most of those of your fellow SDAs. Every one is a debate about the sabbath, and generally has almost nothing at all about salvation by Christ’s atoning sacrifice on the cross, which, (if you noticed) is why you were asked if this belief of yours is related to salvation, because that’s all you have talked about by and large. You SDAs make a bigger deal of this and your anti-Catholic polemics than you do about coming to Christ for salvation, and I doubt I’m the only person on this thread who has noticed that.

I read as much as I could stomach of your evangelistic book The Great Controversy, and had the margins filled with red ink where I noted errors, misrepresentations and misstatements on Christian history as well as the Bible and especially on the Catholic faith.

There wasn’t much that spoke of salvation. I finally round filed the book in disgust rather than run the risk of anyone getting the mistaken impression that I agree with it.

I’ve already pointed out the gaping holes in this theological bondage that you guys preach, so I won’t belabor that point other than to say that the New Testament is clear on what day the early Christians worshiped on. It was EVERY day, even as it is among Catholics today, but the Lord’s day according to several places in the New Testament is clearly shown to be the first day of the week…Sunday.

When you get ready to open a thread on what you believe one must do to be saved, PM me a link and I’ll have a look.

Meanwhile…

 

[Church_Militant]

Actually most Christians even as late as the 5th century still kept the Sabbath.

Proof please?

 

[Mannyfit75]

Proof please?

It’s even in the Bible that the first day of the week, which is Sunday is worshipped. Since since Apostolic times, early Christians worship on a Sunday.

 

[djconklin]

Proof please?

Oh sure. I’m sorry I thought everyone knew this.

“The people of Constantinople, and almost everywhere, assemble together on the Sabbath, as well as on the first day of the week, which custom is never observed at Rome or at Alexandria. There are several cities and villages in Egypt where, contrary to the usage established elsewhere, the people meet together on Sabbath evenings, and, although they have dined previously, partake of the mysteries.” Sozomen, ECCLESIASTICAL HISTORY, Chapter XIX at vitaphone.org/history/sozomen.html

Socrates Scholasticus: “For although almost all churches throughout the world celebrate the sacred mysteries on the sabbath of every week, yet the Christians of Alexandria and at Rome, on account of some ancient tradition, have ceased to do this.”

See also the histories of Ireland and Ethiopia which kept the seventh-day Sabbath till Rome found out about it.​

It’s even in the Bible that the first day of the week, which is Sunday is worshipped. Since since Apostolic times, early Christians worship on a Sunday.

There’s no evidence in the Bible that Sunday was kept as the day of worship. There’s no evidence in the Bible that the Sabbath was ever set aside. Fairly recent scholarly studies have shown that Sunday worship crept in as a way to keep the Romans from killing the Christians when they were going after the Jews who were revolting (in ab’t 135 A.D.)–and primarily in Rome and Alexandria.

 

[djconklin]

Sorry, but I sure can’t tell from your posts and most of those of your fellow SDAs. Every one is a debate about the sabbath, and generally has almost nothing at all about salvation by Christ’s atoning sacrifice on the cross, which, (if you noticed) is why you were asked if this belief of yours is related to salvation, because that’s all you have talked about by and large. You SDAs make a bigger deal of this and your anti-Catholic polemics than you do about coming to Christ for salvation, and I doubt I’m the only person on this thread who has noticed that.

PMJI, but I’m not aware of too many people who dispute that it is Christ who saves them. In fact, I have yet to meet anyone who calls themsleves a Christian who disputes that they are a sinner, or that they need salvation. The “rubbing point” comes in when we turn to look at the law. OTOneH, they claim is is null and void and done away with at the Cross. But, then I can ask why do you want to put it in the schools and courthouses then? Then they clam up. OTOtherH, they claim that nine of the Ten was not done away with–I can then ask where’s the proof? Why was the Sabbath–the only one that points to God as our Creator done away with? They don’t have have an answer for that.

Secondly, we are not “anti-Catholic.” We are opposed to papal theology. I would appreciate it if you’d stop making that claim.

I read as much as I could stomach of your evangelistic book The Great Controversy, and had the margins filled with red ink where I noted errors, misrepresentations and misstatements on Christian history as well as the Bible and especially on the Catholic faith.

Please send me all your notes so I can get it published. We can make scholarly history!

But, I half-suspect that when you claim we are “anti-catholic” when we are not that your claims won’t hold water.

 

[FollowTheWay]

this happened in 321 AD (Codex Justinianus lib. 3, tit. 12, 3; trans. in Philip Schaff, History of the Christian Church, Vol. 3, p. 380, note 1).

thank you djconklin for that message ive been wanting to do more research

 

[Marsha_Adams]

Secondly, we are not “anti-Catholic.” We are opposed to papal theology. I would appreciate it if you’d stop making that claim.

You clearly aren’t SDA if you can say that with a straight face!! If you are SDA you should really stop telling such whoppers.

Here’s a question, why do so many SDAs list themselves as “Protestant” on their profiles instead of Seventh Day Adventist? Are they hiding something? Or just embarrassed?

Marsha

 

[djconklin]

this happened in 321 AD (Codex Justinianus lib. 3, tit. 12, 3; trans. in Philip Schaff, History of the Christian Church, Vol. 3, p. 380, note 1).

thank you djconklin for that message ive been wanting to do more research

Constantine made Sunday a day of rest–sort of an early Sunday Blue law. The Jews revolted against Rome (again!) in 135 A.D…

 

[djconklin]

You say that because you cannot do it. If the Bible teaches that Sunday keeping is or will be the Mark of the Beast prove it. To make it easy for you, in addition to the Bible use any extra-biblical source you want with the exception of EGW.

Marsha

FYI, I never yuse EGW for any theological argument. I use the Bible, lexicons, archaeology, etc…

 

[djconklin]

You clearly aren’t SDA if you can say that with a straight face!! If you are SDA you should really stop telling such whoppers.

I never lie.

Here’s a question, why do so many SDAs list themselves as “Protestant” on their profiles instead of Seventh Day Adventist? Are they hiding something? Or just embarrassed?

Marsha

I can’t speak for others, but I am first and foremost a Christian. I happen to be of the Protestant persuaision. I am not a member of any church.

 

[Church_Militant]

Oh sure. I’m sorry I thought everyone knew this.

“The people of Constantinople, and almost everywhere, assemble together on the Sabbath, as well as on the first day of the week, which custom is never observed at Rome or at Alexandria. There are several cities and villages in Egypt where, contrary to the usage established elsewhere, the people meet together on Sabbath evenings, and, although they have dined previously, partake of the mysteries.” Sozomen, ECCLESIASTICAL HISTORY, Chapter XIX at vitaphone.org/history/sozomen.html

I checked that link and it’s junk. A movie site.

I did find (on my own) that that quote is from Book VIII of that work and in reading it in context only shows that some churches did that, but not all of them and the way it’s written could be construed that the Roman churches did not follow the sabbath. Nor is there any support for your own position of mandated Sabbath worship, although there is certainly some good support for our own vigil Mass.

Socrates Scholasticus: “For although almost all churches throughout the world celebrate the sacred mysteries on the sabbath of every week, yet the Christians of Alexandria and at Rome, on account of some ancient tradition, have ceased to do this.”

I find it interesting that you cite histories that show that it was indeed the churches in Rome and Alexandria, the well known seats of early Christianity and even today remain so that adhered to an ancient tradition of Sunday worship. I note to that that position has prevailed in almost all modern Christian communities, which again shows who knew what was correct and who did not.

See also the histories of Ireland and Ethiopia which kept the seventh-day Sabbath till Rome found out about it.

Irrelevant except that this is as it should be when the Church corrects its children as I have already pointed out.

There’s no evidence in the Bible that Sunday was kept as the day of worship.

According to you and the manifest errants of the SDA as your own quotes have shown. These same errant SDAs are also the ones who have repeatedly predicted the day of Christ’s return in open contradiction of the scriptures and even today teach that Jesus and Michael the archangel are one and the same, impugning the deity of Our Lord Jesus Christ.

Based on these things then it is obvious to any objective reader that the SDA cannot be trusted to teach correct doctrines. Taking doctrines from them is like accepting teaching on rocket science from a garbage collector. It may sound good, but would one want to put one’s life on the line trusting it? :takeoff:

Moreover, your remark flies in the face of the clearly scriptural evidence so far presented by myself and other Catholics, not to mention most of the n-C communities.

There’s no evidence in the Bible that the Sabbath was ever set aside.

This too is rhetorical since we have, (just as I stated above) provided more than ample New Testament evidence.

Fairly recent scholarly studies have shown that Sunday worship crept in as a way to keep the Romans from killing the Christians when they were going after the Jews who were revolting (in ab’t 135 A.D.)–and primarily in Rome and Alexandria.

Citations of source? I’m sure I’ll find that this is a specious statement as well.

 

[Church_Militant]

PMJI, but I’m not aware of too many people who dispute that it is Christ who saves them. In fact, I have yet to meet anyone who calls themsleves a Christian who disputes that they are a sinner, or that they need salvation. The “rubbing point” comes in when we turn to look at the law. OTOneH, they claim is is null and void and done away with at the Cross. But, then I can ask why do you want to put it in the schools and courthouses then? Then they clam up. OTOtherH, they claim that nine of the Ten was not done away with–I can then ask where’s the proof? Why was the Sabbath–the only one that points to God as our Creator done away with? They don’t have have an answer for that.

Yet SDAs never offer any of that soteriology, and especially not here at CAF. It is no secret that your community considers us non-Christian and yet you would rather argue about the sabbath than glorify God with a real presentation of the Gospel of salvation. That’s pretty pathetic IMO.

Secondly, we are not “anti-Catholic.” We are opposed to papal theology. I would appreciate it if you’d stop making that claim.

That’s going to prove impossible because you ARE grossly anti-Catholic. Don’t forget, I’ve read your book “The Great Controversy” so I well know the vitriolic polemics that you people level against our most holy faith. One need only read a little of it to quickly see the specious misinformation against our faith that you and your leaders hold forth. A simple search of the internet will quickly deliver up the text of that sad work any objective researcher will quickly see the errors and lies offered in it.

For example:

How repugnant to every emotion of love and mercy, and even to our sense of justice, is the doctrine that the wicked dead are tormented with fire and brimstone in an eternally burning hell; that for the sins of a brief earthly life they are to suffer torture as long as God shall live. Yet this doctrine has been widely taught and is still embodied in many of the creeds of Christendom.

and

• It is beyond the power of the human mind to estimate the evil which has been wrought by the heresy of eternal torment. The religion of the Bible, full of love and goodness, and abounding in compassion, is darkened by superstition and clothed with terror. When we consider in what false colors Satan has painted the character of God, can we wonder that our merciful Creator is feared, dreaded, and even hated? The appalling views of God which have spread over the world from the teachings of the pulpit have made thousands, yes, millions, of skeptics and infidels.

The theory of eternal torment is one of the false doctrines that constitute the wine of the abomination of Babylon, of which she makes all nations drink. Revelation 14:8; 17:2. That ministers of Christ should have accepted this heresy and proclaimed it from the sacred desk is indeed a mystery. They received it from Rome, as they received the false sabbath. True, it has been taught by great and good men; but the light on this subject had not come to them as it has come to us. They were responsible only for the light which shone in their time; we are accountable for that which shines in our day. If we turn from the testimony of God’s word, and accept

537

false doctrines because our fathers taught them, we fall under the condemnation pronounced upon Babylon; we are drinking of the wine of her abomination. *

Yeah, you guys are real founts of the truths of scripture. NOT! :bible1:

Please send me all your notes so I can get it published. We can make scholarly history!

Sure…No problem, just send us all copies of the book I just cited and I’ll produce the annotated edition that exposes the author and her cult look for the misinformation mills that they really are.

But, I half-suspect that when you claim we are “anti-catholic” when we are not that your claims won’t hold water.

Ok…we’ll do a quick survey of Catholics on this thread.

All who have read all or even part of “The Great Controversy”, (Interested parties can PM me for the link, I will not post it here) and feel that the SDAs are grossly anti-Catholic in both their teachings and polemics, copy and paste this part of this post as a simple witness.

 

[djconklin]

I checked that link and it’s junk. A movie site

Yeah, that’s very very odd!

in reading it in context only shows that some churches did that, but not all of them

Define “some.”

and the way it’s written could be construed that the Roman churches did not follow the sabbath.

That would be correct.

Nor is there any support for your own position of mandated Sabbath worship,

That’s not my position–who are you talking about?

I find it interesting that you cite histories that show that it was indeed the churches in Rome and Alexandria, the well known seats of early Christianity and even today remain so that adhered to an ancient tradition of Sunday worship.

Define “ancient.”

I note to that that position has prevailed in almost all modern Christian communities,

That was my point.

which again shows who knew what was correct and who did not.

Although they were historians and not theologians that would be correct.

According to you and the manifest errants of the SDA as your own quotes have shown.

This sentence doesn’t make sense.

These same errant SDAs are also the ones who have repeatedly predicted the day of Christ’s return in open contradiction of the scriptures

Name them. That was the Millerites, not the SDA’s.

and even today teach that Jesus and Michael the archangel are one and the same, impugning the deity of Our Lord Jesus Christ.

Non sequitur and off-topic for the thread title.

Based on these things then it is obvious to any objective reader that the SDA cannot be trusted to teach correct doctrines.

Non sequitur with my posts and unproven to boot.

Taking doctrines from them is like accepting teaching on rocket science from a garbage collector. It may sound good, but would one want to put one’s life on the line trusting it?

See previous.

 

[djconklin]

Fairly recent scholarly studies have shown that Sunday worship crept in as a way to keep the Romans from killing the Christians when they were going after the Jews who were revolting (in ab’t 135 A.D.)–and primarily in Rome and Alexandria.

Citations of source? I’m sure I’ll find that this is a specious statement as well

Bacchiochi’s research. Why the rush to condemn sight unseen? Isn’t this called poisoning the well? Isn’t this rather unchristian, not to mention unscholarly?

 

[djconklin]

Originally Posted by djconklin
PMJI, but I’m not aware of too many people who dispute that it is Christ who saves them. In fact, I have yet to meet anyone who calls themsleves a Christian who disputes that they are a sinner, or that they need salvation. The “rubbing point” comes in when we turn to look at the law. OTOneH, they claim is is null and void and done away with at the Cross. But, then I can ask why do you want to put it in the schools and courthouses then? Then they clam up. OTOtherH, they claim that nine of the Ten was not done away with–I can then ask where’s the proof? Why was the Sabbath–the only one that points to God as our Creator done away with? They don’t have have an answer for that.

Yet SDAs never offer any of that soteriology, and especially not here at CAF.

As I clearly stated: “I’m not aware of too many people who dispute that it is Christ who saves them. In fact, I have yet to meet anyone who calls themsleves a Christian who disputes that they are a sinner, or that they need salvation.” Do you need to hear that? Over and over again? How many times? Isn’t it time to move past the milk, as per Paul?

It is no secret that your community considers us non-Christian

Pure unmitgated nonsense. In fact, SDA pastorshave preached that there will be more Catholics in heaven than SDA’s–and it had nothing to do with numbers. In fact, you could ask pastors if they think any Catholic priests, cardinals, bishops, and popes will be heaven and they will answer yes. Now there is a major non-protestant denomination that teaches that protestants will not be saved.

and yet you would rather argue about the sabbath than glorify God with a real presentation of the Gospel of salvation. That’s pretty pathetic IMO.

How many times do you need to hear that? Is there any one disputing that? Isn’t it awfully “pathetic” that one needs to recite the ABC’s of Christianity at this late date in your life? Wouldn’t you feel insulted? I would. If you really dneed to hear the basics over and over get a good CD or tape and play it. I listen to hymns myself, but I don’t need to hear them 24/7.

Can I ask you a favor: knock off the propaganda, stay on topic and stick to the facts? I’d like to have an intelligent discussion on the subject at hand.

 

[djconklin]

Please send me all your notes so I can get it published. We can make scholarly history!

Sure…No problem, just send us all copies of the book I just cited and I’ll produce the annotated edition that exposes the author and her cult look for the misinformation mills that they really are.

I just re-joined this site yesterday and would appreciate it if you would list the info you claimed–you can email me if you like.

 

[djconklin]

Secondly, we are not “anti-Catholic.” We are opposed to papal theology. I would appreciate it if you’d stop making that claim.

That’s going to prove impossible because you ARE grossly anti-Catholic.

SDA’s are not anti-catholic and I do not lie.

Your first quote isn’t anti-catholic and you failed to note the source and page.

If SDA’s were anti-catholic then why would pastors preach that there will be more Catholics in heaven than SDA’s?

 

[happilycatholic]

As has been said here, Jesus is the New Covenant. I’m curious as to why some Christians are still adhering to the Law of Moses. The New Covenant changes many things. Why is it that this particular practice (Sunday worship) is so hard to grasp.

If you are going to follow Saturday Sabbath doctrine, why are you not still offering animal sacrifice?

As Saturday Sabbath keepers you appear to be following Moses instead of Jesus and His Apostles.

God chose the day on which to perfect His Covenant with us.

 

[happilycatholic]

SDA’s are not anti-catholic and I do not lie.

Your first quote isn’t anti-catholic and you failed to note the source and page.

If SDA’s were anti-catholic then why would pastors preach that there will be more Catholics in heaven than SDA’s?

Then can you tell me why the General Conference advised my mother-in-law that she was not to allow a priest on her property for my son’s marriage?

**Side note, she was misinformed as to my intensions as my son is not catholic even though I am. No priest would have married them regardless of the GC’s position.

 

[SDA2RC]

SDA’s are not anti-catholic and I do not lie.

Your first quote isn’t anti-catholic and you failed to note the source and page.

If SDA’s were anti-catholic then why would pastors preach that there will be more Catholics in heaven than SDA’s?

DJ,
I think you are not being completely upfront about the Adventist view of Catholicism. Anti-Catholicism is rampant throughout the works of Adventist Writers and the teachings of the Church. The issue is so obvious that the GC published a statement on their website explaining their “relationship” with Catholics.

This does not mean that Adventists hate Catholics, but the Church is certainly very Anti-Catholic. All one has to do is read the works for the SDA Prophetess EGW and her references to the Popery and “unholy alliances” of anyone who joins with the Catholics Church in end times. Or her references to the Pope as the Beast of REvelation, which is still a main teaching of Adventism.