why is sunday instead of saturday the sabboth?

[SDA2RC]

Okay Brandon, if you don’t go to mass on Sunday. Which Commandment have you broken?

AS they are written or as they the CHURCH has interpreted them through the New Covenant. There is a difference.

AS they are written… I am breaking no commandment, no commandment in Exodus 20 commands church attendance, and I am not bound to keep the 7th Day Sabbath as I am not bound to the observance of the Commandments as written.

However, the Church has added/interpreted the Sabbath Commandment, under the New Covenant to include worship on Sundays. However, this is a function of the CHURCH, not scripture. It is these CHURCH interpretations of the commandments that I am bound to… not the written text of the commandments in the Mosaic Law.

Now a question for you.

IF you are bound to the commandments as written in scripture… why dont you keep Saturday holy like scripture says to?

 

[Marsha_Adams]

Okay Brandon, if you don’t go to mass on Sunday. Which Commandment have you broken?

I know! I know! You have broken none, because the 3rd commandment says nothing about Mass attendance. The Jews (males) were only required to go to the temple four times a year on specific feasts.

You have however violated one of the precepts of the Church.

Marsha

 

[SDA2RC]

I know! I know! You have broken none, because the 3rd commandment says nothing about Mass attendance. The Jews (males) were only required to go to the temple four times a year on specific feasts.

You have however violated one of the precepts of the Church.

Marsha

EXACTLY!!!

 

[happilycatholic]

Happily,
The issue here is yours… Your claim that they are binding as is written, but then on the other hand that we are not bound by the 7th Day Sabbath is what is contradictory, and you have yet to explain it to us.

My statements stand… We are bound to the Moral precepts of the Commandments, as stated in the Catechism when dealing with the Subject of the Third Commandment. We are not bound to the Commandments ceremonial observance.

This is why you have not explained how you can be bound ot the commandments as written, yet ignore what is written when it comes to the Sabbath.

ARe you bound to them or not?

Oh really, tell that to the Vatican brother.

We don’t ignore what is written, we changed it to Sunday you goofball. WE CHANGED IT WHICH IS WHY SDAs DONT CARE FOR US.

CAN YOU NOT FREAKIN READ?? I’m sitting here telling you the Vatican has it right on their website dude. What is wrong with you? It’s there go and look.

 

[SDA2RC]

Oh really, tell that to the Vatican brother.

We don’t ignore what is written, we changed it to Sunday you goofball. WE CHANGED IT WHICH IS WHY SDAs DONT CARE FOR US.

CAN YOU NOT FREAKIN READ?? I’m sitting here telling you the Vatican has it right on their website dude. What is wrong with you? It’s there go and look.

ROTFL… YES we changed it… therefore we are bound to what the Church changed it to… NOT TO WHAT IS WRITTEN IN SCRIPTURE!!

I know what the Vatican site says… dude… I also know it then says later that we dont follow the Sabbath commandment, we keep the Lords Day… which is not following the commandments… Its right there READ IT… LOL

 

[Marsha_Adams]

Now a question for you.

IF you are bound to the commandments as written in scripture… why dont you keep Saturday holy like scripture says to?

Brandon:

I think that is the wrong question.

If we are bound to the commandments as written:

Why are we allowed to have paintings and photographs in the house? Or statues in the park?

If we honor our parents why do some of us not own land to prosper on?

Why are we not allowed to say cuss words?

Why are we not allowed to have sex with unmarried people or our uncles?

The Church has expanded the moral obligations of the 10 commandments and we are bound by them, not by the decalogue as written.

Marsha

 

[SDA2RC]

Happily,
Do you now admit that we are not bound to the commandments as they are written in scripture, i.e. that we must keep the 7th day Sabbath?

Up to this point you have been contradicting yourself… saying:"

Yes we are bound to keep them…

But we dont have to keep the third one… LOL

 

[SDA2RC]

Brandon:

I think that is the wrong question.

If we are bound to the commandments as written:

Why are we allowed to have paintings and photographs in the house? Or statues in the park?

If we honor our parents why do some of us not own land to prosper on?

Why are we not allowed to say cuss words?

Why are we not allowed to have sex with unmarried people or our uncles?

The Church has expanded the moral obligations of the 10 commandments and we are bound by them, not by the decalogue as written.

Marsha

Very well said! We are bound to the Laws as interpreted and taught by the Catholic Church… the NEW LAW… Not the Decalogue as written. It is in this sense that the Council of Trent could say we are bound to the Decalogue, they did not mean that we had to keep the Sabbath, but that we had to observe the moral obligations of the Decalogue as interpreted and expanded on through the Church. Exactly!

 

[SDA2RC]

Oh really, tell that to the Vatican brother.

I will happily tell that to the Vatican and have no disagreement, the Vatican scholars know that there is much more on this topic than is in the Catechism and I am not saying anything contrary to the faith.

 

[happilycatholic]

I’ve just realized that I’m sitting here with a bunch of converts from the SDA faith that don’t believe it’s a grave sin to miss mass on Sunday. Awesome. They believe that because God instituted the Sabbath and what God instituted no man can set asunder. How Adventist of you.

I have NEVER heard any catholic, save you two, say that the Commandments are not binding on all Christians.

What you are trying to get at is what ALL SDAs say, that the Vatican insituted Sunday worship and therfor it was changed by the “Church”, but you are wrong. The Church simply made it official catholic doctrine because it was already being observed. Sunday worship was instituted by the Apostles.

I’m telling you Christ and His Apostles were the first Christian Church that implemented Sunday Worship, not the Vatican.

This is great. Catechism has got to get better. Read Pope John Paul’s *“Dies Domini” (Apostolic Letter to all Christians) *

This will explain my position in line with the Church’s. The fact that we feel that the Sabbath law is fulfilled in Sunday Worship is constantly defiled by SDAs. It’s not that the Apostles changed the actual “Sabbath” but they changed the day of worship. So if you don’t think you’ve broken a commandment when you miss mass on Sunday, go tell that to your priest.

 

[happilycatholic]

Happily,
Do you now admit that we are not bound to the commandments as they are written in scripture, i.e. that we must keep the 7th day Sabbath?

Up to this point you have been contradicting yourself… saying:"

Yes we are bound to keep them…

But we dont have to keep the third one… LOL

I never said that. What I’ve been avoiding, if anything was the fact that you seem to think the Vatican changed the day of worship. That is totally incorrect. The Apostles did this. So, as the Holy See interpret’s the Commandments, we are bound to keep ALL of them.

Do you have something against the Magesterium and it’s interpretation of the 3rd Commandment??

ONLY SDAs THINK THIS IS CONTRADICTORY.

You are saying we have to choose between catholicism and the 3rd Commandment.

That’s rediculous.

 

[djconklin]

So If I understand you correctly, you are not actively attending an SDA Church, but you still consider yourself Adventist? Correct?

No, I quit church period. One isn’t saved by belonging to a specific denomination (contrary to what some preach), but on the basis of your heart-faith relationship with Jesus Christ.

 

[SDA2RC]

Ok… I am going to ignore the fact that now your basically making stuff up about Marsha and me… with absolutely no basis in reality.

Let me make this simple… a simple yes or no question:

You said in post 457
"“This makes it very clear that we CAN and ARE bound by every single one of the Commandments as they are written.”

Do you believe this statement that you made in post 457 is true?

I’ve just realized that I’m sitting here with a bunch of converts from the SDA faith that don’t believe it’s a grave sin to miss mass on Sunday. Awesome. They believe that because God instituted the Sabbath and what God instituted no man can set asunder. How Adventist of you.

I have NEVER heard any catholic, save you two, say that the Commandments are not binding on all Christians.

What you are trying to get at is what ALL SDAs say, that the Vatican insituted Sunday worship and therfor it was changed by the “Church”, but you are wrong. The Church simply made it official catholic doctrine because it was already being observed. Sunday worship was instituted by the Apostles.

I’m telling you Christ and His Apostles were the first Christian Church that implemented Sunday Worship, not the Vatican.

This is great. Catechism has got to get better. Read Pope John Paul’s *“Dies Domini” (Apostolic Letter to all Christians) *

This will explain my position in line with the Church’s. The fact that we feel that the Sabbath law is fulfilled in Sunday Worship is constantly defiled by SDAs. It’s not that the Apostles changed the actual “Sabbath” but they changed the day of worship. So if you don’t think you’ve broken a commandment when you miss mass on Sunday, go tell that to your priest.

 

[SDA2RC]

No, I quit church period. One isn’t saved by belonging to a specific denomination (contrary to what some preach), but on the basis of your heart-faith relationship with Jesus Christ.

ok… good to know… thanks for the clarification…

 

[djconklin]

we also do not observe Sacrifices because it was part of the Mosaic Law.

That is correct.

The weekly Sabbath was not commanded or observed at Creation. God rested and sanctified the 7th day of creation… not every 7th day. The weekly Sabbath was not instituted until the Exodus… …

1. The Sabbath was observed the month before the Law was written on stone–hence it existed before that time.
2. The Sabbath was known when the languages were created–hence it existed before that time.
3. It is illogical to assume that the Sabbath was given as a memorial to creation and yet no one kept it before the Law was given at Sinai----hence it existed before that time.
4. Man was made in the image of God–we are to do as He does, in our case it is to seek and save the lost and rest on His holy Sabbath. You should need a specific command to know what is right and wrong to do.

 

[happilycatholic]

Ok… I am going to ignore the fact that now your basically making stuff up about Marsha and me… with absolutely no basis in reality.

Let me make this simple… a simple yes or no question:

You said in post 457
"“This makes it very clear that we CAN and ARE bound by every single one of the Commandments as they are written.”

Do you believe this statement that you made in post 457 is true?

I’m not going to let you make me choose between catholicism and the 3d Commandment.

You can use that to reconcile your conflicting SDA beliefs with your Catholics beliefs if you want. That’s not an issue with me.

Can you tell me where on the Vatican’s website they took the 3d Commandment off? Because I see it right there, plain as day.

 

[happilycatholic]

That is correct.

1. The Sabbath was observed the month before the Law was written on stone–hence it existed before that time.
2. The Sabbath was known when the languages were created–hence it existed before that time.
3. It is illogical to assume that the Sabbath was given as a memorial to creation and yet no one kept it before the Law was given at Sinai----hence it existed before that time.
4. Man was made in the image of God–we are to do as He does, in our case it is to seek and save the lost and rest on His holy Sabbath. You should need a specific command to know what is right and wrong to do.

See, that’s just it we do. The Third Commandment. We just believe it was changed by the Apostles as a day of worship from Saturday to Sunday.

I know, it’s contridicting to SDA doctrine of the Commandments, and apparently to some Catholics as well! The catholics on this thread believe that we are not bound by the Commandments anymore.

 

[SDA2RC]

I’m not going to let you make me choose between catholicism and the 3d Commandment.

You can use that to reconcile your conflicting SDA beliefs with your Catholics beliefs if you want. That’s not an issue with me.

Can you tell me where on the Vatican’s website they took the 3d Commandment off? Because I see it right there, plain as day.

ROTFL… oh my goodness. Are you for real?.. LOL

I am not asking you to make a choice between the Sabbath and Catholicism… I am asking for a simple yes or no question about what you said!

All you have to do is say, yes or no…

In post 457 YOU SAID:

“This makes it very clear that we CAN and ARE bound by every single one of the Commandments as they are written.”

Do you believe this statement that you made in post 457 is true?

 

[SDA2RC]

See, that’s just it we do. The Third Commandment. We just believe it was changed by the Apostles as a day of worship from Saturday to Sunday.

I know, it’s contridicting to SDA doctrine of the Commandments, and apparently to some Catholics as well! The catholics on this thread believe that we are not bound by the Commandments anymore.

Did you get that DJ?

We are bound to them… but we can change them…

Isnt the idea that you can change them completely the opposite of being bound to them?

 

[happilycatholic]

Brandon:

I’m not trying to offend you or Marsha, but I know what the catholic doctrine is, mostly because I was corrected more than a few times during my own catechism. For saying things like what you’re saying now.

Let’s face it the catechism can be at times as confusing and contridictory as the Scriptures. But these are all issues I had problems with when I joined the Church. I wanted every little charge against the Church explained to me over and over again.

We can go back and forth and around in circles but the fact is this, the Vatican does not dismiss the Commandments as merely a moral compass, they constitute grave sin if broken. That in and of itself is proof that they are more than just guidance, they are law.

Next, the Vatican does not dismiss the Third Commandment. In fact is says to keep the Lord’s Day Holy. The Lord’s Day is Sunday and to keep it Holy means to worship.

If you believe that then you believe that missing mass on Sunday is breaking the Third Commandment and requires confession, not just on your own, but through the priest and BEFORE you receive the Eucharist.

If this Commandment were not binding on us according to the Commandment Law we woud not have to confess through a priest and we would not have to obstain from the Eucharist.

I don’t see how you can reconcile what you’ve said here with catholic doctrine. I can definitely reconcile it with SDA doctrine though.

I’m sorry, but it is what it is. No catholic has ever said we’re not bound by the Third Commandment let alone all the others as well.

I apologize for offending the both of you, but this is not personal.