why is sunday instead of saturday the sabboth?

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Happily,
Haha… I very much converted, anyone on here, Marsha, Protestant101, DJConklin (from past conversations), MarysRoses, etc…etc… can attest to that… LOL

You said that SDA’s will not seperate between the two laws, that is incorrect, SDA’s VERY MUCH make a distinction between the two laws, that is the problem.

We interpret the law through the New Covenant, the Gospel, which is why we, as Catholics, follow the moral precept of the Sabbath without following the ceremonial precept of the same commandments (Keeping the 7th day Sabbath).

Was the Law eternal? No, the Law is not eternal. Galatians 3:19 gives the purpose of the Law. It says: “What, then, was the purpose of the law? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come.” The law was given 430 years after Abraham according to scripture, if it was not given until 430 years after Abraham then it was not something known prior to the Exodus, and is not eternal. “What I mean is this: The law, introduced 430 years later, does not set aside the covenant previously established by God and thus do away with the promise. For if the inheritance depends on the law, then it no longer depends on a promise; but God in his grace gave it to Abraham through a promise.” Galatians
3:17-18.

The Law had a definite beginning time (430 years after Abraham) and a definite ending time, --When the promised Seed (Christ, vs. 19) came.

This does not mean we are not under a law, we are under the New Covenant Law, which in addition the the commands set forth for Christians in the NT, include the Church laws. The moral precept (time to worship God) is fulfilled by the NT Church in Sunday. But we dont observe Saturday as the Ten Commandments dictate because we are not under the ceremonial injunction of the law, but instead the Moral obligation of the Law.

In Luke 2:21-24,39 - The law of Moses (v22) is called the law of the Lord (v23,24,39). This law included a purification rite and animal sacrifices. These were clearly done away (cf. Lev. 12:2-8). Hence, the law of the Lord is the same as the Law of Moses, and it contains things that were done away. Again, in 2 Chron. 31:2-4 the “law of God” included animal sacrifices, new moons, and feast days, which we know were done away.

There is no distinction between the law of God and the Law of Moses. In scripture, it was both God’s law because He originated it, and Moses’ law because he revealed it (Neh. 10:29).

We cannot ignore the 10 Commandments, we are told that we must obey them, but we obey the moral commands, not the ceremonial aspect of the same, we interpret this through the New Covenant relationship of Christ and the Church.

Does that help any?
I was catechized differently:

No where in the Catechism does it refer to “God’s Law”. Further, it refers to The Law of Moses and the Ten Commandments separately.

The only faith I’ve heard refer to that is SDAs. You say they do separate the two, but in your last post you stated they were one and the same and could not be separated because there is only one law, God’s law. That is an SDA doctrine, not a catholic one.

The Catechism refers to the Law of Moses as a set of laws given to the Isrealites so that they would know Christ was coming. Where the Ten Commandments are mentioned, the Law of Moses is not. How do you explain this distinction made by the Church and why do you not follow this doctrine?

You seem to go back and forth in your position. On the one hand you say it’s all one and the same and it’s “God’s Law” and you choose to follow the moral part of the Law. Then you go the other way and say it is separate and interpreted through the NT.
 
I am curious why sunday rather than saturday is considered the sabboth. My girlfriend believes people celebrate the sabboth in error and that it really should be friday night to saturday night like it was in old testament.

the only biblical evidence I can find is:

This is really very little if any evidence justifying sunday as being the sabboth. This just alludes to them breaking bread on sunday and to lay something aside. It really doesn’t tell us to change the sabboth day from saturday to sunday anywhere and does not make this clear at all.

Maybe the disciples kept the sabboth but in addition did this on sunday as well?
The Sabbath always was and always will be on Saturday. Sunday is not the Sabbath. The Sabbath was never changed. No one can change the Sabbath except God and He hasn’t. The Sabbath was given as a covenant sign to the Jews and to the Jews only.

While gentile Christians may worship on Sunday, it is most certainly NOT the Sabbath!
 
DJConklin,
Whether a pastor has said there were going to be more Catholics than Adventists in heaven or not is not the issue. Not to mention that unless the Pastor is all knowing, he has no clue as to who is living up to what “light” they have. God judges the hearts of Man… not your pastors.

The issue is whether the teachings and messages of the Adventist Church to the rank and file member of the Church are anti-Catholic. I think it is quite easy to demonstrate that they are… The Adventist Church is certainly not pro-Catholic… it is VERY anti-Catholic.
You keep missing the point here. “Anti-Catholic” does not automatically equate with hatred or bigotry. Although you and other anti-Adventist cult members would love to say otherwise, you simply cannot prove it. The anti-Adventist treatment and hatred I have experienced on this forum alone is proof enough for me; but there is lots more that could be added.
 
You say they do separate the two, but in your last post you stated they were one and the same and could not be separated because there is only one law, God’s law. That is an SDA doctrine, not a catholic one.
Happily:

No, that is not an SDA doctrine.

Marsha
 
The only faith I’ve heard refer to that is SDAs. You say they do separate the two, but in your last post you stated they were one and the same and could not be separated because there is only one law, God’s law. That is an SDA doctrine, not a catholic one…
Happily,
The idea that there is two laws is distincly Adventist, not Catholic. There are different seperations of the law, ceremonial, moral, priestly, and civic, however, it is ONE LAW.
The Catechism refers to the Law of Moses as a set of laws given to the Isrealites so that they would know Christ was coming. Where the Ten Commandments are mentioned, the Law of Moses is not. How do you explain this distinction made by the Church and why do you not follow this doctrine?..
I dont think the distinction is as clear you feel. I also would say that the Catechism is not written as an apolegetics manual, but as an explanation of the faith. There is no way they can address the intricacies of every belief. I will try to show you some examples below.
You seem to go back and forth in your position. On the one hand you say it’s all one and the same and it’s “God’s Law” and you choose to follow the moral part of the Law. Then you go the other way and say it is separate and interpreted through the NT.
This is not me… this is a distinction that the Church makes, between the moral and ceremonial parts of the same commands. For example:

CCC. Paragaph 2176: **The celebration of Sunday observes the moral commandment **inscribed by nature in the human heart to render to God an outward, visible, public, and regular worship "as a sign of his universal beneficence to all."109 Sunday worship fulfills the moral command of the Old Covenant, taking up its rhythm and spirit in the weekly celebration of the Creator and Redeemer of his people.

In the previous paragraph, 2175, the catechism explains that the ceremonial observance of the Sabbath is transferred to Sunday. The Church makes a distinction between the moral and ceremonial aspect of the Law.

The Catholic encyclopedia, under the heading of Mosaic Legislation (LAW) explains this under the heading of “codification”.In its present form the Mosaic Legislation appears without logical order, and interspersed with historical reminiscences. It is largely casuistic, as might be expected from the manner of its early transmission. (1) The Decalogue, with its two versions (Exodus 20:2-17; Deuteronomy 5:6-21) is basic, setting forth, as it does, the sovereignty and spirituality of God, together with the sacredness of His and the neighbour’s rights. (2) The “Book of the Covenant”, so called in Exodus 24:7, embraces Exodus 21-23:19 (or 20:20-23:33), and contains judicial, moral, and religious regulations for people living in primitive agricultural conditions. It is remarkable for its humanitarian character. (3) The Deuteronomic code amplifies the preceding and adapts it to new conditions. (4) The “Law of Holiness” as contained in Lev., xvii-xxvi has reference chiefly to holiness of a moral and ceremonial nature. It forms a small part of what is now critically styled the (5) “Priest’s Code”. This last group abounds in ceremonial enactments, and comprises nearly all Leviticus and Numbers, with a few chapters of Exodus.Notice that the first section of the Mosaic Law is the Ten Commandments.

Continued…
 
Continuation of last post to Happily Catholic:

The website Catholic Basic Training includes the Sabbath as part of its discussion of the Mosaic law."A number of people may say that – even if worship is to be undertaken on Sunday – a general avoidance of work is mandated for Saturday, according to the Mosaic Law. The truth of the matter is that the Church – which has authority to legislate – has shifted what elements of the Mosaic observance of the Sabbath to Sunday. This is an example of the changes involving the Mosaic law as it applies to Christianity."

Again the Catholic Encyclopedia, under the section on “Moral Aspect of Divine Law” We again see the Ten Commandments as being considered part of the Mosaic Law.The Divine Law of the Old Testament, or the Mosaic Law, is commonly divided into civil, ceremonial, and moral precepts. The civil legislation regulated the relations of the people of God among themselves and with their neighbours; the ceremonial regulated matters of religion and the worship of God; **the moral was a Divine code of ethics. In this article we shall confine our attention exclusively to the moral precepts of the Divine Law. In the Old Testament it is contained for the most part and summed up in the **Decalogue (Exodus 20:2-17; Leviticus 19:3, 11-18; Deuteronomy 5:1-33).

Finally, at the Catholic Review online, we find Archbishop O’brien referring to what I was talking about earlier as the Mosaic law… the one law of the Jews or 613 commands, which included the 10 commandments.As we look at the Old Testament today, the 613 precepts of Mosaic law seem quite burdensome in dictating every facet of Jewish life.You can find the 613 precepts of the Mosaic law here:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/613_Mitzvot

you will notice that all the ten commandments are included and the Sabbath is number 87-88.

From the same page we read at the ver top:
The 613 Mitzvot (“commandments”) (also “613 MitzvosHebrew: תרי"ג מצוות‎) are statements and principles of law and ethics contained in the Torah or Five Books of Moses. These principles of Biblical law are sometimes called commandments (mitzvot) or collectively as the “Law of Moses” (Torat Moshe, תרת משה), “Mosaic Law,” or simply “the Law.”

What I am trying to show you is that the Catholic Church recognizes one single law (Covenant), and within that law there are ceremonial and moral aspects to many of the commands contained in that law. But although some commands had a dual nature, they still are one law, because the same command can have both a moral and ceremonial aspect.

Adventists claim there are two laws, that are seperate and one was done away with…(The ceremonial or Mosaic Laws) and one is still in effect… the Law of God (as opposed to the law of Moses) or Ten Commandments.

Hope this helps…
 
If that doesnt explain the difference in how we view the laws as opposed to the Adventists… I will have to leave it to Marsha, she usually says things much clearer than I can… 👍

Hope everyone has a great night.
 
Continuation of last post to Happily Catholic:

The website Catholic Basic Training includes the Sabbath as part of its discussion of the Mosaic law."A number of people may say that – even if worship is to be undertaken on Sunday – a general avoidance of work is mandated for Saturday, according to the Mosaic Law. The truth of the matter is that the Church – which has authority to legislate – has shifted what elements of the Mosaic observance of the Sabbath to Sunday. This is an example of the changes involving the Mosaic law as it applies to Christianity."

Again the Catholic Encyclopedia, under the section on “Moral Aspect of Divine Law” We again see the Ten Commandments as being considered part of the Mosaic Law.The Divine Law of the Old Testament, or the Mosaic Law, is commonly divided into civil, ceremonial, and moral precepts. The civil legislation regulated the relations of the people of God among themselves and with their neighbours; the ceremonial regulated matters of religion and the worship of God; **the moral was a Divine code of ethics. In this article we shall confine our attention exclusively to the moral precepts of the Divine Law. In the Old Testament it is contained for the most part and summed up in the **Decalogue (Exodus 20:2-17; Leviticus 19:3, 11-18; Deuteronomy 5:1-33).

Finally, at the Catholic Review online, we find Archbishop O’brien referring to what I was talking about earlier as the Mosaic law… the one law of the Jews or 613 commands, which included the 10 commandments.As we look at the Old Testament today, the 613 precepts of Mosaic law seem quite burdensome in dictating every facet of Jewish life.You can find the 613 precepts of the Mosaic law here:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/613_Mitzvot

you will notice that all the ten commandments are included and the Sabbath is number 87-88.

From the same page we read at the ver top:
The 613 Mitzvot (“commandments”) (also “613 MitzvosHebrew: תרי"ג מצוות‎) are statements and principles of law and ethics contained in the Torah or Five Books of Moses. These principles of Biblical law are sometimes called commandments (mitzvot) or collectively as the “Law of Moses” (Torat Moshe, תרת משה), “Mosaic Law,” or simply “the Law.”

What I am trying to show you is that the Catholic Church recognizes one single law (Covenant), and within that law there are ceremonial and moral aspects to many of the commands contained in that law. But although some commands had a dual nature, they still are one law, because the same command can have both a moral and ceremonial aspect.

Adventists claim there are two laws, that are seperate and one was done away with…(The ceremonial or Mosaic Laws) and one is still in effect… the Law of God (as opposed to the law of Moses) or Ten Commandments.

Hope this helps…
Wikepdia is largely run by activists, and does not necessarily reflect Adventist beliefs on “God’s Law.”
 
I’m telling you, remember Doug Bachelor. He’s their next EGW. He’s going to take them into a more mainstream Christian direction.
That’s a hoot! Who claimed that?
 
The Sabath was NOT in the Mosaic law, but the Ten Commandments. Mosaic law was a form of civil law, not Holy Law if you will.
Correct, with the cavet that there’s no such thing as “Mosaic law” in the sense that he made it up. The 10C were written on stone, by God and placed inside the Ark. What is commonly called the “Mosaic law” was written by Moses, we don’t know one what–possibly animal skin and was placed outside the Ark. The 10C are the moral law which tells us what is sinful, there’s nothing sinful in the “Mosiac law.” The “Mosaic law” details (in part) how to deal with sin (after we have violated the moral law).
 
SDAs teach that the Catholic Church is the whore of Babylon. That is anti-catholic.
Define church. We aren’t talking about the buildings, the organization or the people. We are talking about specific teachings. We believe that Christ is the one who saves us from our sins, just as you do–SDA’s are not anti-catholic.
SDAs teach that the Pope is the anti-Christ.
That is anti-catholic.
Note the individual–which is why pastors can preach that there will be popes in heaven–SDA’s are not anti-catholic.
SDAs perpetuate the Maria Monk hoax.
That is anti-catholic.
I was an SDA for over 40 years and this is the 1st time I’ve ever heard of such malarky–SDA’s are not anti-catholic.
SDAs teach that in the last days, the Catholic Church (whore of Babylon) and her protestant daughters will persecute the SDAs.
That is anti-catholic.
Neither you, nor I can predict the future. We do not believe that the RCC will persecute the SDA denomination. The Christian church is those individuals who are in the body of Christ (not all who claim the name are in fact followers of Christ). SDA’s are not anti-catholic.

SDA pastors preach that there are many God-fearing Catholics. This is not anti-catholic.

I would suggest that it is those who have misled you as to what SDA’s actually teach who are anti-catholic.

When I was homeless in NYC I stayed in a shelter run by the nuns of Sister Teresa’s order. When my dad was remodeling the church a neighbor who was Catholic came over and helped him. By experience alone SDA’s are not anti-catholic–it is the lairs who decieve you and try to drive us apart who are anti-catholic and anti-christian.
 
Originally Posted by djconklin
This is quite shocking to hear since we are a congregational church (the GC CANNOT dictate to us what we will do or not do). And they certainly cannot tell us what to do on our own property.
If the SDA denomination is congregational, why do their tithes go the Conference? Why does the conference pay the pastor’s salary?

Not “pure” congregational. Guess who owns the building? Guess who is responsible for maintenance, repairs and and any remodeling projects? Not the conference. Neither the local conference or the GC has any control over who will be on our property–which was the point under discussion. The original poster seems to have been misinformed. Neither the local conference, nor the GC has any say on such matters.
 
The SDA thinks us Catholics are children of the devil. You hate us.
Pure unmitgated nonsense–find whoever told you that and slug the sucker! 👍 😃

Pastors preach that there are many God-fearing people in the RCC (and other denominations as well)!
 
101 doesn’t realize I am a speed reader. I have actually read all SDA documents
Ah, but what about the comprehension rate? And you read all the files that have ever been published in the SDA church? You could be 99 and have done nothing but read since graduation from HS and still not have done that.
 
Church property is owned by the conference corporation though,
You have been sorely seriously misinformed. The church property is owned by the local church. They have the rersponsibility for paying the mortgage, maintenance, repairs and any remodeling–not the local conference.
Just another example of “They don’t know what they are!”
Yet another case of “It ain’t them who don’t know!”
 
Originally Posted by Sublime Prince
I am curious why sunday rather than saturday is considered the sabboth. My girlfriend believes people celebrate the sabboth in error and that it really should be friday night to saturday night like it was in old testament.
Your girlfriend is 100% correct.
 
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