Why is the Catholic Church hated so much?

[newcreation2009]

And God expects us to not repeat our sins!
Repentance that includes penance can be very helpful in changing sinful behaviors

The whole letter reads as follows:

To Mary van Deusen (W):
Magdalen College, Oxford. 26/6/52

Dear Mrs. Van Deusen–
Incense and Hail Marys are in quite different catagories. The one is merely a question of ritual: some find it helpful and others don’t, and each must put up with its absence or presence in the church they are attending with cheerful and charitably humility.

But Hail Marys raise a doctrinal question: wether it is lawful to address devotions to any creature, however holy. My own view would be that a salute to any saint (or angel) cannot in itself be wrong any more than taking off one’s hat to a friend: but that there is always some danger lest some practices start one on the road to a state (sometimes found in R.C.'s) where the B.V.M. is treated really as a deity and even becomes the centre of the religion. I therefore think such salutes are better avoided. And if the Blessed Virgin is as good as the best mothers I have known, she does not want any of the attention which might have gone to her Son diverted to herself.

It seems, nevertheless, quite clear that the Spirit of God is, or is more strongly with Kemper Hall than with P.A. Wolfe. In him you describe a type I know. I think we may accept it as a rule that whenever a person’s religious conversation dwells chiefly, or even frequently, on the faults of other people’s religions, he is in a bad condition. The fact that he shakes your faith is signifant. Pray for him but not, I should say, with him. If he insists on talking religion to you ask him for positive things: ask him to tell you what he knows of God.

All blessings. My ‘new trouble’ is still there: but I have much to be thankful for.
Yours
C.S. Lewis

 

[wisdomseeker]

My bad. Well, if God prepared them in advance, then He already knew we were going to perform those duties, not as a reason FOR His saving grace, but as a sign to others to proclaim it. Anyway, it still proves His grace toward us.

God tells us what we must do. it doesnt mean we will do it. many rejects those works for fear. The CC has always done good works in obedience to Christ, yet protestants made their mission to condemn the Church for obeying God. go figure.

you guys have a lot of repentance to do.

 

[newcreation2009]

You twist my meaning i never sayed you work your way to heaven i said it is a COMBINATION of GRACE&WORKS
man can never work his way to heaven but neither can we just say God came into me and ‘save’ me. the bible says /But as for cowards, the unfaithful, the depraved, murderers, the unchaste, sorcerers, idol-worshipers, and deceivers of every sort, their lot is in the burning pool of fire and sulfur, which is the second death."/will not be in heaven if according to YOU they believe in Gods grace they will get to heaven therefore following your logic of grace alone the bible contradices itself.

It’s not if you BELIEVE in God’s grace, it’s if you believe in His Son as Lord & Savior.
His grace is GIVEN to you and since He is God and you are NOT, His grace is enough.
You do the works as proof of your receiving His grace, thank God.
Remember, we love God ONLY because He loved us first. Check it out…it’s in the bible.

 

[newcreation2009]

God tells us what we must do. it doesnt mean we will do it. many rejects those works for fear. The CC has always done good works in obedience to Christ, yet protestants made their mission to condemn the Church for obeying God. go figure.

you guys have a lot of repentance to do.

What about the ‘bad’ works the CC has done? Or are you telling me that they NEVER did ONE bad thing?
His will is our command and yes we are to do those things, but who can do them all without fault? No one…hence His grace. I look to the Son for my salvation, if I would depend on MY works I would end up in hell. Jesus says that HE is the way, the truth and the life, not me, not you, not any person.

 

[wisdomseeker]

It’s not if you BELIEVE in God’s grace, it’s if you believe in His Son as Lord & Savior.
His grace is GIVEN to you and since He is God and you are NOT, His grace is enough.
You do the works as proof of your receiving His grace, thank God.
Remember, we love God ONLY because He loved us first. Check it out…it’s in the bible.

You are a funny guy. if you just knew how you sound foolish to us. dont you know that the Church you fight against is the same Church that brought forth the Bible? dont you think she knows the World of God by heart now? 2000 yrs. wow! how long do you have the Bible?

 

[newcreation2009]

new creation what of your thoughts on this

Quote:
Originally Posted by newcreation2009
If that is true, then can you tell me how much work is needed to be saved?
A person is saved by Jesus’ work on the cross, and if you think that anything that you do, no matter how ‘good’ it is, will get you into heaven, then you are demeaning Christ’s sacrifice for us. (What is ‘good’ anyway? And what if I do more ‘good’ than you? Do I get ‘first dibbs’?)
As the apostle Paul put it,
“As it is written, there is none righteous, no not one” (Romans 3:10)
and he said that “All have sinned, and come short of the glory of God” (Romans 3:23).
We become truly righteous NOT through our own righteousness, but through the power of Christ’s righteousness. Therefore, to become more like Christ we must partake of the divine nature of Christ (2 Peter 1:4) and His righteousness.
Saved by grace:
A.(Ephesians 2:8-9) - “For by grace you have been saved through faith; and that NOT OF YOURSELVES, it is the gift of God; NOT AS A RESULT OF WORKS, that no one should boast.”
B.(Rom. 3:20, 28) - “because by the works of the Law no flesh will be justified in His sight; for through the Law comes the knowledge of sin…For we maintain that a man is justified by faith apart from works of the Law.”
C.(Galatians 2:16) - “nevertheless knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the Law BUT THROUGH FAITH IN CHRIST JESUS, even we have believed in Christ Jesus, that we may be justified by faith in Christ, and not by the works of the Law; since by the works of the Law shall no flesh be justified.”
D.(James 2:24) - “You see that a man is JUSTIFIED BY WORKS, and not by faith alone.”
God does not want a faith that is empty and hypocritical. James 2 is talking about those who “say” that they have faith but have no works. Therefore, people cannot tell if they are true believers or not, because there is no fruit. That kind of a faith is useless and is not a saving faith. True faith RESULTS IN true works.
There is no contradiction at all when we examine the contexts.
We are justified by faith but that faith must be alive (James 2).
The Law cannot save us because we are incapable of keeping it (Matthew 19:16-17). Therefore, salvation is by grace through faith.
Remember ‘FUTURECATHOLIC’, we sin because we are sinners. We AREN’T sinners because we sin. And since we are sinners we NEED a Savior, and that Savior is Jesus Christ, NOT your ‘‘good’’ works. Please don’t try to rely on anything you do to get you into heaven, you’ll be sadly mistaken one day.

You twist my meaning i never sayed you work your way to heaven i said it is a COMBINATION of GRACE&WORKS
man can never work his way to heaven but neither can we just say God came into me and ‘save’ me. the bible says /But as for cowards, the unfaithful, the depraved, murderers, the unchaste, sorcerers, idol-worshipers, and deceivers of every sort, their lot is in the burning pool of fire and sulfur, which is the second death."/will not be in heaven if according to YOU they believe in Gods grace they will get to heaven therefore following your logic of grace alone the bible contradices itself.

So you’re saying it’s a COMBINATION of Grace & your works, HUH? Well, when do you know that you’ve done enough or you’ve done the right works?
Also, are you telling me that Jesus’ work on the cross was NOT enough to cleanse us of our sins? Wow, that’s not cool. Jesus said, "It is finished.’’, and I believe Him.

 

[newcreation2009]

You are a funny guy. if you just knew how you sound foolish to us. dont you know that the Church you fight against is the same Church that brought forth the Bible? dont you think she knows the World of God by heart now? 2000 yrs. wow! how long do you have the Bible?

Is that the best rebuttal you have to offer? Sad.

 

[FutureCatholic1]

ok lets say someone truly believes in jesus as his savior then trys to be a sorcerer according to rev they will go to hell according to you as long as they belive in jesus as there savior works do not matter and they will go to heaven but according to you scriture is infalliable aviosuly something is wrong there that would be the taking out of fatith plus works

 

[FutureCatholic1]

to new creation
works dont get use to heaven alone we need to work and trust in Gods grace for when we die
Jesus died so that we could be cleansed

 

[Farsight001]

Is that the best rebuttal you have to offer? Sad.

Do you understand the concept of “christian charity”? As in being nice and kind to all? Because you are being a complete *** right now, and no one here appreciates it, nor do we want to convert to any religion a person like you is part of. All your ramblings and rude words make us MORE Catholic. There’s several verses in the bible about love. I highly suggest you look through them. You need it.

 

[Tony888]

t’s not if you BELIEVE in God’s grace, it’s if you believe in His Son as Lord & Savior.
His grace is GIVEN to you and since He is God and you are NOT, His grace is enough.
You do the works as proof of your receiving His grace, thank God.
Remember, we love God ONLY because He loved us first. Check it out…it’s in the bible.

I think the challenge comes from bringing this binary model into the real world
Obviously God’s grace leads to obedience. However, most mortals receive his Grace bit by bit and are not fully infused, like a light going on.

Mortals will even perform ‘works’ out of habit or family obligation, when they are stumbling with their faith. I don’t find this wrong since their habit of Works keeps them on a path to renew and invigorate their grace through Christ. It just doesn’t fit the binary model

 

[louis91766]

I have come across this general sentiment of hostility from a variety of people- I’m sure that every Catholic must have. Now I know that there are as many reasons and angles to this as there are groups of people out there.

Please share charitably. Why?

Perhaps there is hostility because of some papal statements such as: “Furthermore, we declare, we proclaim, we define that it is absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff.” Unam Sanctam, Pope Boniface VIII .

 

[Jack_Bauer]

NOT EXACTLY TRUE… one fingere typing

I had an injured puppy in my hands while trying to balance my keyboard on my lap and not hurt the puppy.

I wanted to say that what you said was not only uncharitable, but not really an exact science. Just because someone grows up in the Catholic faith doesn’t mean they understand. Parents hope to teach their children their faith so it sticks. But ultimately everyone has to own it. Sometimes people try to act like their live in the distant past where children, if they know what’s good for them, follow in the footsteps of their parents. Those days are really gone. Did you know that at one time in salvation history, many people avoided baptizing their children in order to give them that one chance as adults to wash it all away when they were ready. You see, confession was not made as readily available as it is today. In fact, heresy was confronted with a huge cost, separation from the Church. Penance could last a lifetime before the elders allowed the penitent in the doors again.

Tim, and many like him, are not perfect. We live in a world with anti-Catholic allegiances. Tim bought into the leis and misconceptions. Even though the truths that are worth discussing in depth may have caused him and others like us to lose our faith in the Catholic Church, can be over come. But its not as easy as you seem to have proposed. The lack of charity in your post reflects a sense of vindictiveness. I hope that was not your intention. I’ll be waiting for your response.

 

[FutureCatholic1]

to new creation works and faith its in the bible if you look and read it with an open heart you will see that it is a combination of the two trying to. explain it to you with my limited knowledge is hard but i will continue to do so. but as St thomas Aquinas said “To one who has faith, no explanation is necessary. To one without faith, no explanation is possible.” St. Thomas Aquinas

 

[Tony888]

Perhaps there is hostility because of some papal statements such as: “Furthermore, we declare, we proclaim, we define that it is absolutely necessary for salvation that every human creature be subject to the Roman Pontiff.” Unam Sanctam, Pope Boniface VIII .

Good point. We are often no better (or mature) than teenagers who seem hardwired to reject any form of outside authority.

 

[JustaServant]

NC, I am sorry you chose not to engage in any kind of mature discussion. I’m sure at your prayer meeting you will say: “I witnessed for Jesus and they kicked me off the forum because of the truth!!!”
Sad and immature.
This is something I have noticed for a long time, even while still a fundamentalist myself.
I remember talking to a Catholic once who told me he was accousted by a fundamentalist looking for another ‘soul to win’. The Catholic was becoming very frustrated as the fundamentalist persisted and kept quoting Scripture at him. He ignored several subtle hints. and a few not so subtle. Finally the Catholic said: “I only discuss the Bible with adults”. The fundamentalist walked away very angry and said he would ‘shake the dust from his feet.’
I personally noticed this during my time in fundamentalist churches and when I encountered fundamentalists in the workplace.
They are extremely emotionally immature.
Notice NC chose to answer only a few of the posts. He thought he would latch onto who he percieved to be the weakest of the posters. That’s typical, predators tend to go for the weakest of the herd.
As soon as they find themselves facing facts they didn’t consider (Catholics who know thier Bibles), or a question they cannot answer (as if Catholics never heard it before), they go on the attack and consign their opponent to Hell.
Inexperience and lack of knowledge are the hallmarks of any kind of immaturity. That’s why our teen-agers frustrate us so much with thier God-like ‘I know everything’ mindset.
Seems to me a couple in a certain Garden were promised something like that.

 

[GreggAlvarez]

I doubt if many people hate the Catholic Church.

Well, that is a wrong doubt. If there are only 50 people on this planet that hate, that is many people. Same with murder, rape, abortionists, etc… But, there are certainly many people that hate the Church. Just go to jesus-is-savior.com and see how many people actually “Like” that site.

Disclaimer: I am not comparing anti-Catholics to murderers, rapists, etc… I am comparing hatred to those things. More specifically, the numbers of those with hatred.

Read newcreation’s comments and you will understand why many people are indeed anti-Catholics.

What is true that millions strongly take issue with the Catholic Church. Here are three of the reasons.

Ok, we are not talking about those that merely have issues.

** 1. Many people, certainly among mainline Protestants, disagree totally with the idea that only one religion is true in all that it preaches and teaches**, and that this applies only to Catholicism… They can also be friendly toward non-Christians groups, from Buddhists to Hindus, etc.

Huh? We are the only ones that have publicly stated that other religions do have parts of the Truth, even if slightly distorted. Whether they are morals or natural revelation or whatever.

Catholics are also friendly with other religions. Jesus and the Apostles taught all of the Truth.

What you claim seems way too New Age-ish.

 **2. Among evangelical Protestants there is a strong feeling that Catholicism incorporated many pagan influences over the years**, that Catholicism depends too much upon tradition and other extra-scriptural sources. They would include among these the teaching that the bread and wine become the body and blood of Christ at mass. They tend to think of this as idolatry. This goes for some Catholic teachings re Mary, also. They reject the prayerbook liturgy of Catholis worship and favor a freer, more sponteneous form of Christianity, with fewer canned prayers and more prayers from the heart. Some extreme evangelicals may verge on being anti-Catholic.

And here is where the anti-Catholicism comes in (even if itis a watered-down version). Those Protestants don’t listen to us whenever we explain things about the Eucharist, or Mary, or systematic prayer.

And what about the Our Father? Protestants complain that we depend too much on Tradition, but when we do use the Bible (all the time, especially during Mass), we get criticized for how we use it! There is something fishy about that, no?

And what is this about “spontaneous” Christianity? That another denomination? Where in the Bible does it say we must use non-written prayers? What about the Our Father? What about the Psalms? What about anything else from the Bible Christians might use? And Catholics favor both types written and “spontaneous”. There is absolutely nothing wrong with either.

 

[GreggAlvarez]

  It's important, however, to remember that anti-Catholicism today usually means disagreement with the religion and not prejudice against Catholic people. That may not always have been true but is today.

While some people may mistakenly (that a word?) think that, that is not what it actually means. Again, go to www.jesus-is-savior.com and tell me they are not anti-Catholic (as well as anti- everything else) with its strict definitions.

There are many anti-Catholics out there, perhaps not in comparison to the overall population. But we are saying “many”, not “most”.

** 3… Many of these have a particular bone to pick with Catholicism because they think (fear) that if Catholicism ever became dominant it would want special privilege, as it has in past centuries in majority Catholic countries.**
I don’t know enough about this to respond adequately.
Roy5;8592547:

 But again, few people hate Catholicism. They disagree with it, maybe strongly. They would oppose any of its efforts to gain special privilege.They sometimes fear it. Many of their ancestors came to America for religious freedom and Catholicism is not regarded as an authentic champion of religious freedom except where its own interests are involved.

Many people hate Catholicism. Just as many people hated (or hate) Jesus, many people hate Catholicism.

Who cares what the Catholic Church is “regarded” as? That only proves a point we have been making for a few years (try a couple thousand). People have a distorted view of Catholicism and those ant-Catholics will not take the time to find out what they are really about. They assume tha Catholic’s sins are the sins of the Church.

And then are cynics against the Church as you have shown.

How is it that a religion is supposed to be a “champion of religious freedom”? That fact already negates that it is true. The fact that we believe Catholicism is fully true and no other religion can claim that (rightly so) says nothing about religious freedom.

Go read Cardinal Joseph Ratzinger’s (now the Pope) book called Truth and Tolerance and you will find you are mistaken about what Catholics actually think about Truth and other religions.

You have proven that you are completely mistaken about your prior assumptions about the Catholic Church. And it seems you don’t want to be corrected either because you have said the same things over and over and over on this site. Well for as long as I have seen you post. Note: I am not saying you are anti-Catholic, but that is a quality of an anti-Catholics: they won’t let Catholics correct any wrong assumptions they may have.

 

[wisdomseeker]

What about the ‘bad’ works the CC has done? Or are you telling me that they NEVER did ONE bad thing?
His will is our command and yes we are to do those things, but who can do them all without fault? No one…hence His grace. I look to the Son for my salvation, if I would depend on MY works I would end up in hell. Jesus says that HE is the way, the truth and the life, not me, not you, not any person.

Hummm… The CC can not do anything wrong. the Church is blameless and without stain. some in the Church will do to her what judas did to Christ. Christ remained unblemished. Works can save. God tells us about the woman who helped th Apostles at one time. The Lord did not forget what she to His people.

we Catholics look to our Lord for Salvation. the Heavens belong to God and only Him can allows us in. One more reason to be in the Ark of Jesus, the CC. One day the doors will closed and no one will be allowed in. Jesus said this.

Jesus is the Truth, the life, and the way. but you dont know the way unless His holy Church tells you what you are to do to be saved.

How do you know God? He built a Church to teach all man, Do you know His Church?

 

[wisdomseeker]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roy5
** 3… Many of these have a particular bone to pick with Catholicism because they think (fear) that if Catholicism ever became dominant it would want special privilege, as it has in past centuries in majority Catholic countries.

The CC found by Christ is to rule over all nations according to God. but many has come against her.
Now many are left in confusion and with Godless government because of those who fight against the Church and they are too many. What have you gained by staying outside the Church? what we have today is the reign of relativism at best where Truth is being squashed to the point of non existent and what prevails is the opinion of man.

those outside of the Church have done great damage to the Truth. those outside of the Holy Church of God has not let her reign but neither can they reign. just think of how many souls are being cast out because protestantism has been a great force agaisnt the Church and even bringing governments against her. protestant are greatly responsible for what the way the world is today. they have cast doubt among the peoples and brought them confusion to the point, people no longer are able to discern the Truth.

Our fathers doesnt have to say, and they wont stand up and say. but we all can see what is really going on.**