Why is the Catholic Religion the truth?

[Mannyfit75]

Someone doctored that quote! The middle paragraphy is not mine!
Outside the Catholic Church there is no salvation, is Catholic theology. Whether you like it or not that’s what the Catholic Church is teaching it it’s church’s everywhere.

God Bless,
Robert
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Eph 5:20 ‘Test all thing, hold fast what is good’.
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Yes the Catholic Church still affirms that there is no salvation outside the Church.

 

[slowly]

If, as I have hypothesised, there is no one true religion, there is no one truth that fits every person, or that it cannot be proven that there is one true system of belief, then you are going to have to go personal and that is what I have been recommending. You are already going personal by asking the original question, and you have got some thoughts from Catholics and others which vary from conservative to way off the deep end, and perhaps you cannot expect more than that before you take a leap yourself.
…

I have one concern: with such a personalized Religion that “fits every person”, when I find my personal Religion, does this Religion really tell me anything about God or does it just reflect my own preconceived ideas, my own biases and my own weaknesses?

Also, how far would you take this idea? Do you include Buddhism in this picture of Religion as well? What about atheists that after an honest search for Religion decides that atheism is their fitting “Religion” so to speak? (And I assume here that atheists can also be kind towards other people and live a life of love towards other people.)

 

[nerfherder]

Someone doctored that quote! The middle paragraphy is not mine!
Outside the Catholic Church there is no salvation, is Catholic theology. Whether you like it or not that’s what the Catholic Church is teaching it it’s church’s everywhere.

God Bless,
Robert
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Eph 5:20 ‘Test all thing, hold fast what is good’.
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Robert, this is simply, absolutely, untrue. Whoever taught you this was mistaken or worse. It is not the teaching of the church, and you may refer to the Dogmatic Constitution Vatican II posted above, if you want to make a start on learning the truth. I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No man cometh unto the Father save by me is not the prerogative of Catholic Christians only, nor perhaps of Christians as a body. Please research and think.

I find it hard to understand why you say things like this, how you can believe this to be true, when it is so patently untrue. I wonder where you learned?

Jabulani

 

[nerfherder]

I have one concern: with such a personalized Religion that “fits every person”, when I find my personal Religion, does this Religion really tell me anything about God or does it just reflect my own preconceived ideas, my own biases and my own weaknesses?

Also, how far would you take this idea? Do you include Buddhism in this picture of Religion as well? What about atheists that after an honest search for Religion decides that atheism is their fitting “Religion” so to speak? (And I assume here that atheists can also be kind towards other people and live a life of love towards other people.)

I wrote about a religion that you can live with, whose values and beliefs are in accord with your life experience, which gives you comfort now, and which allows you to grow in faith.

I have found that the Catholic Church has done - is doing - that for me. The belief or value system (Buddhism, again, does not have a divinity, and I think ‘religion’ must be defined in terms of a deity) you choose will not reflect your own preconceived ideas, biases or weaknesses, but will help you to address them, given the wisdom of ages you are tapping into. You will grow in wisdom and grace - unless you choose one of the ‘alternative’ sects which preach, for example, that the world ends tomorrow, and you end up one of 900 people dead outside Georgetown, Guyana, because your leader told you to drink strychnine poison in anticipation.

I have spoken about values and belief systems because I think most religions grew out of ancient creation myths (not your ordinary myth!) of cultures and civilisations.

These creation myths very often reflected the values of that culture, where it came from, how it got there, what its values are. Books 1 and 2 of Genesis are the creation myths (two of them) of the Judaeo-Christian tradition, for example.

Creation myths usually centred around an all-powerful force, which often, ultimately, was transformed into a perception of the godhead. In other words, I am saying that some of us are inclined to believe that God did not rise one fine day from his golden throne in the sky and say Here I am: I am your God. Rather there was a gradual perception among humanity, reinforced by relatively random communication or revelations from God, that He did in fact exist, and mankind took it from there, in communication with God.

I have always assumed that a religion is a value/belief system that honours a godhead, in our case Yaweh or Jehovah, I am that I am. On the other hand, The Buddha was not divine, and there is no deity associated with Buddhism. We might describe it as a systematic guide to honourable living and dying. But we do often call it a religion, and that’s OK too. Some people find it easier to do without a divinity/deity, especially where there are conceptual or spiritual stumbling blocks to belief in a Supreme Being. Others have been happy to combine Catholic belief with Buddhist teachings, or with Hindu teachings, and that is OK too. Why not, if it helps you to grow as a person?

Finally, there are agnostics - people who are not sure there is some kind of supreme being out there somewhere - and atheists (see Richard Dawkins The God Delusion published recently). Within those two groups, there are those people who live lives of genuine service, lovingkindness, compassion and hope - the kind of characteristics we often associate with our religion. These people are sometimes called moral non-Christians. They are not called to faith; or they may decline to turn and face God. But they are nevertheless blessed, and I am of the belief that our God, in his lovingkindness for His Children, will ensure that they too will be received into His Kindgom. Catholics would say that those who rejected Him are damned to hell; I find that hard to believe. A close associate is a moral non-Christian and if we were all like him, the world would be a far far better place than we know now.

Jabulani

 

[nerfherder]

Yes the Catholic Church still affirms that there is no salvation outside the Church.

One *could *say that the Catholic Church is ***not ***the only authority on salvation.

I would prefer to leave that prerogative to a God of love, who has made each and every one of His Children divine, and equally divine. As salvation means being forever in the presence of our God of Love, do you really believe that God says Oh to hell with all those men and women and children I made: they have not worshipped me, Me the Divine Almighty! That sounds like a pagan god to me, and I do not believe it is a characteristic of our Judaeo-Christian God, even when it comes to Muslims, Hindus or Buddhists for example.

Can you give me the chapter and verse where it is laid out that only Catholics get to go to heaven? That would help solve the puzzle. Perhaps I am dead wrong and apostate.

 

[guanophore]

One *could *say that the Catholic Church is ***not ***the only authority on salvation.

I would prefer to leave that prerogative to a God of love, who has made each and every one of His Children divine, and equally divine. As salvation means being forever in the presence of our God of Love, do you really believe that God says Oh to hell with all those men and women and children I made: they have not worshipped me, Me the Divine Almighty! That sounds like a pagan god to me, and I do not believe it is a characteristic of our Judaeo-Christian God, even when it comes to Muslims, Hindus or Buddhists for example.

This is well said, nerf. Only God knows who He will save, and why. Here is a good link on this topic:

catholiceducation.org/articles/apologetics/ap0043.html

Can you give me the chapter and verse where it is laid out that only Catholics get to go to heaven? That would help solve the puzzle. Perhaps I am dead wrong and apostate.

Don’t take Robert too much to heart, nerf. He was poorly catechized and misinformed, or outright misled. I am beginning he is persisting to promote these errors here deliberately to aggravate Catholics.

 

[slowly]

I wrote about a religion that you can live with, whose values and beliefs are in accord with your life experience, which gives you comfort now, and which allows you to grow in faith.

I have found that the Catholic Church has done - is doing - that for me. The belief or value system (Buddhism, again, does not have a divinity, and I think ‘religion’ must be defined in terms of a deity) you choose will not reflect your own preconceived ideas, biases or weaknesses, but will help you to address them, given the wisdom of ages you are tapping into. You will grow in wisdom and grace -
…

Excellent! This is well said and very pursuasive!

In fact the entire post is something that I can relate with.

 

[Robert902]

Robert, this is simply, absolutely, untrue. Whoever taught you this was mistaken or worse. It is not the teaching of the church, and you may refer to the Dogmatic Constitution Vatican II posted above, if you want to make a start on learning the truth. I am the Way, the Truth, and the Life. No man cometh unto the Father save by me is not the prerogative of Catholic Christians only, nor perhaps of Christians as a body. Please research and think.

I find it hard to understand why you say things like this, how you can believe this to be true, when it is so patently untrue. I wonder where you learned?

Jabulani

Where did I learn? Catholic grammar school and Catholic High School. I know what the Catholic Church teaches. Much of the doctrine of Catholicism is “hidden”. If you are unaware of this teaching pertaining to limited salvation, you just haven’t researched very well.

God Bless,
Robert
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Eph. 5:20 “Test all things, hold fast what is good.”
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

 

[Robert902]

This is well said, nerf. Only God knows who He will save, and why. Here is a good link on this topic:

catholiceducation.org/articles/apologetics/ap0043.html

Don’t take Robert too much to heart, nerf. He was poorly catechized and misinformed, or outright misled. I am beginning he is persisting to promote these errors here deliberately to aggravate Catholics.

“All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness; that the man of God may be perfect, thoroughly furnished unto all good works.” 2 Tim. 3:16-17
“But in your hearts set apart Christ as Lord. Always be prepared to give an answer to everyone who asks you to give the reason for the hope that you have. But do this with gentleness and respect.” 1 Peter 3:15
I aplologize if I have been disrespectful, or not shown gentleness.

God Bless,
Robert
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Eph 5:20 “Test all things, hold fast what is good.”
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

 

[Little_Mary]

Yes the Catholic Church still affirms that there is no salvation outside the Church.

Yes, but shouldn’t you clarify that non-Catholics achieve salvation after death through purgatory. IOW, the steps necessary to purify the soul, if not completed before death, would be completed, through the grace of God, after death. That soul would receive the sacraments at that time - God willing, of course. Am I on the right track?

I ask b/c simply saying “there is no salvation outside the Church” could discourage many, and possible turn some away.

 

[guanophore]

Yes, but shouldn’t you clarify that non-Catholics achieve salvation after death through purgatory. IOW, the steps necessary to purify the soul, if not completed before death, would be completed, through the grace of God, after death. That soul would receive the sacraments at that time - God willing, of course. Am I on the right track?

I ask b/c simply saying “there is no salvation outside the Church” could discourage many, and possible turn some away.

I agree, that this statement alone, without the rest of the teaching along with it, comes across as discouraging. I am not sure what all methods God uses to save those, and we are not able to look upon the heart as He does when He decides. But we do know that God wants all to be saved, and come to the knowledge of the truth. God is not bound by the sacraments, either. Although He gave us these as the normative means of infusing grace, He can save people outside of them.

 

[Little_Mary]

I agree, that this statement alone, without the rest of the teaching along with it, comes across as discouraging. I am not sure what all methods God uses to save those, and we are not able to look upon the heart as He does when He decides. But we do know that God wants all to be saved, and come to the knowledge of the truth. God is not bound by the sacraments, either. Although He gave us these as the normative means of infusing grace, He can save people outside of them.

Very true. I agree with this.

 

[DB_AND_ALI]

ltravis 48 I think that the series of books written by Karen Armstrong gives an excellent insight into the relationships between the three great Axial religions and others, their growth, their personalities. (I know this will not excite Catholics because she is a former nun, now apparently agnostic, but nevertheless a huge scholar.) Did Buddha actually live? How can we understand Islam except through the fact that it has always been bound to its geo-political core – as opposed to Christianity? And so forth – I think you get the idea. There is lots of historical evidence for all the world’s major belief systems, written by their own scholars as well – Indians in particular.

 

[WynCatholic]

Where did I learn? Catholic grammar school and Catholic High School. I know what the Catholic Church teaches.

LOL The Catholic School (publicly funded) teaching available in my former prov. was lacking both in catholicity and profundity. I was an anti-catholic back then, and some of the …errr…stuff] they taught… I was almost right to be derisive and regard the catholic church as cultic. ‘Superstitious formalism’ was almost a relief from pervasive gnostic Jesus seminar speculations, pseudoscientific cynicism and liberation theology

Much of the doctrine of Catholicism is “hidden”.

LOL hidden from the students, that is. The stuff I heard from good catholic students, now noncatholics. If you tell the teacher that ‘this isn’t what the Church teaches’ they tell you,with a con man’s sincerity: What I am telling you is the ‘real goods’ the true secret teaching of the church. Don’t worry about what you hear in the liturgy, this is the real goods." What some teachers hid was the real teaching of the church. What was fed by them was the lie.
Robert, have you read the Catechism of the Catholic Church? That is the doctrine.Not hidden at all.
Stuff like Rahner’s theological philosophy is not ‘hidden’ so much as burried in stacked verbage. … and none of it is the doctrine of the church, it is just reflections on the doctrine, and explorations of which ways the doctrines might go. Other stuff on pastoral theology was often designed to finesse canon law and church doctrine and practice it also is not hidden doctrine. itis just the stuff the wolves used to destroy the sheep.

If you are unaware of this teaching pertaining to limited salvation, you just haven’t researched very well.

The church has teaching concerning this, but it hasn’t come down firmly , except to say what it isn’t. There is a sense that the different perspectives contain in them fundamental elements of the truth that require further reflection before an understanding can be expressed coherently.

Be Blessed to follow Jesus
In Him,