Why is the Eastern Orthodox Church false?

[Ignatios]

steve:

Jesus didn’t stop there as if that is a summary statement…

No one said or suggested that it is summary statement, however it is one of the many teaching of the Bible and cannot be brushed aside as if it is Irrelevant, It applies to to your church.
lets take a look at it again in full context: 1"Be careful not to do your ‘acts of righteousness’ before men, to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven.
2"So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full.
3But when you give to the needy, do not let your left hand know what your right hand is doing, 4so that your giving may be in secret. Then your Father, who sees what is done in secret, will reward you.
Is the above fit your case???

steve:

He also said don’t hide your light under a bushell basket.

ooo what happened to your previous statement? Posted By Steve earlier* "…Jesus didn’t stop there as if that is a summary statement*lets take a look at this with in context:

Luke 8:15-18 15But the seed on good soil stands for those with a noble and good heart, who hear the word, retain it, and by persevering produce a crop.

16"No one lights a lamp and hides it in a jar or puts it under a bed. Instead, he puts it on a stand, so that those who come in can see the light.
**17For there is nothing hidden that will not be disclosed, and nothing concealed that will not be known or brought out into the open. ** I say AAAAAAAMEN to that
18 Therefore consider carefully how you listen.
Whoever has will be given more; whoever does not have, even what he thinks he has will be taken from him.
the above is mostly about hearing the word.

steve:

…Catholics give quietly…

It took me less then one minute to find this one on the internet …came to St. Bridget Parish and asked for financial help. They came from all over – India, Africa, Philippines, and states of this free land. These guests were welcomed warmly and **none of them went home empty handed. ** and again…He has donated all stipends received…and again…**our Parish involvement in helping ** I think this should do.

steve:

…AND we also build charities, schools, colleges, universities, hospitals, and evangelize the world. That’s how 1 in 5 people on the planet today are Catholics…

NOT TRUE. shall we mention the Inquisition, or how about the way you converted the Ukrainian by force, or how about the Melkite catholic by money(they even mention this in their site)or how about south America, or the Serbian populations who lived in croatia through terror and killing. I invite everybody to research all the above.

steve:

Okay, I’ll play along. I’m sure you know the abysmal population figures, but today, Christianity is less than 2% in that part of the world. So when Jesus returns and asks YOU, what have YOU done to increase Christianity in the middle East since the book of Acts was written 2000 years ago, what are YOU going to say to Him?

If you JUST READ the history you will know that all the Middle east was christian, now you can start by asking yourself how did it become christian??? HHHHMMMM ???
…How do you know that JESUS is going to ask me this, “ARE you the mind of GOD???” you should be asking yourself what have your church done to other christians?
Besides JESUS didnt say “go and increase the number of the christians” and most certainly not by force and killing, but by preaching the word. (the parable of sower is a good example for you to look at, so you will know how and what JESUS told us to do.

Now again ask yourself and read the history of your church how the 1 out of 5 became RC.

steve:

Excuse ME???
You’ve got that wrong.
The Orthodox divided into autocephelous ethnic Churches.
Being under the pope unites NOT divides the Church of God.
That’s what makles the Church truly Catholic.

If I got it wrong why not show me…SHOW ME…all you people been giving is assertions and Opinion and No it is not because it is not since it is not …do you people have a facts.

the HOLY Orthodox CHURCH of GOD contains all sort of People and races that each belong to a diffrent Geographical area and thus each has his own language and customs,… this is deversities… BUT they all have the same faith same baptism same Divine liturgy same teaching …NOW THIS IS UNITY , the unity of faith is unity of christianity …and NOT unity in the Pope although you all 23 rites with 23 diffrent Liturgy baptism faith teaching this is a unity in the Pope allright but NOT IN CHRIST TO HIM BE GLORY NOW and EVER and UNTO the AGES OF AGES , AMEN †††

 

[Ignatios]

anthony:

Christ gave authority to the apostles and he made to Peter the Rock and the shepherd of the whole Church

HE made Peter the Rock of the whole Church, if you mean by this that the Church is built on Peter give then an evidence, biblical and from the fathers, because most of the fathers view concerning this contradict the RCC view…such as one of the most brilliant father of your church"AUGUSTINE" Ambrose etc…

anthony:

Peter’s ministry,the responsibility for the whole Church,was passed on to his successors in Rome.

Since it ias coming from Peter show me, showwwwwwwwwww me , where, such as, an evidence a Proof…? Please .

anthony:

by Ignatios earlier post>>>3) Did Saint Peter ordained the bishop of Rome only?

By anthony >>>I’m not sure what you mean by this question

Could someone put it for him in easier way then the above Please?

anthony:

Christ doesn’t say it in scripture. Rome is where Peter ended up.
Wherever Peter was,he had authority over the whole Church.
Since he ended up in Rome,that is where the authority over the whole Church resides.

And thats where the cracker crumble!!!
your whole theory is built on sand and not Rock, your answer and/or you church answer, above is the evident, you have nothing but Assertion, presuppositions…etc

anthony:

Irenaeus:

"But since it would be too long to enumerate in such a volume as this the succession of all the churches, we shall confound all those who, in whatever manner, whether through self-satisfaction or vainglory,

DO you ever bother reading those quotes at all???read the above, he used Rome as an exampleand just for the recoed Irenaeus’s letter has a few words that they are not translated correctly by your church.

anthony:

To Emperor Gratian, Epistle 11:4 (A.D. 381)

381 ad thats the date when the E. Council took place …Now back to the canon, (WITHOUT going in refuting the validity of this quote, ( can you give something valid for once?) just for the sake of making this short)…2nd canon of the 2nd E. Council states:

Second canon of the second Ecumenical council: 2) Bishops must not leave their own diocese and go over to churches beyond its boundaries; but, on the contrary, in accordance with the Canons, let the Bishop of Alexandria administer the affairs of Egypt only, let the Bishops of the East govern the Eastern Church only, the priorities granted to the church of the Antiochians in the …etc etc etc…
Who do you think is valid here? a quote that its validity is in big question from “weeelll” Ambrose? or the canon from an E.Council???

anthony:

Vincent of Lerins:

Lord JESUS CHRIST SON of GOD have mercy on me a sinner †††
planty of evidences and refutal to the one above in the past 10 posts (more or less) go back and you will find the answers there that you couldnt refute. we will not keep going back to the same thing over and over and … and then some more to keep refuting it over and over…

 

[Ignatios]

steve:

It would be interesting to explore the question, would the middle Eastern Christians have suffered as much if they
had evangelized the East
not split into 17 or so individual autocephelous churches

the only way that you can evangelize everybody so one cannot be suffered is that to do it your way …by force killing oppressions, after all the Church of GOD is to suffer, we were fortold about all this and it is written in the Bible.
Autocephelous are the way the Apostles set up the Churches, they went all over the known world and they established the Churches with a ONE BISHOP on every Church to oversee their work( the work of the Apostles that is not their own) so thats how you have many Churches each one uses its own language their customs(clothing, kind of food) etc…so if you have a problem with that, take it against the ones who established them the Apostles that is.

steve:

Why then did Jesus pray for unity among the apostles behind Peter, if division was not possible?

Why did Paul warn against divisions and factions, if that wasn’t a possibility?

again you are using the scripture out of context, He warned them so that they wont loose their salvation, so when someone fall off the true path he is no longer memeber of the BODY of CHRIST, therefor the Church remains one in those who Holds on to the Traditions that it was handed down to them wether by or an Epistle

steve:

I would suggest it restored unity to many who were seperated.

The UNITY is in CHRIST, the UNITY is to have the same FAITH, to have the same DOCTRINE, NOT in the POPE Eeven though you beleive and teach, diffrent.

steve:

neighborhoods/parishes might be heavily ethnic in some cases, they are one, under the pope. They aren’t split

.
Again within a 2 miles from house, there is many Catholic churches , None of them is the same as the other, you have the liberal catholic church, the pentecostal like church where you will be worshiping and then all of the sudden one person would lay down on the floor and start flopping and speaking tongues (mumbeling), the other one uses this kind of mass the other one is a Melkite and one is a Maronite and NONE is the same as the other one, diffrent liturgy, baptism, Eucharist …etc… where is the Unity? OH yeah it is in the Pope.

steve:

True. Even though the Latin rite is 98% of the Catholic Church, the Eastern rites, which make up the remaining 1-2%, have equal dignity with the Latin rite.

EQUAL DIGNITY??? Boy you havent got a clue about your church, tell me how come the Patriarch of the Melkite cant become a pope ???

steve:

True, but again, the operative word is communion. What unifies ALL, is that they are in communion with the pope, not out of union with the pope…

again the UNITY should be in the faith, at least according to the Apostolic Churches that is.

 

[Ignatios]

OOOO WHAT HAPPENED to VERSE 25???
Luke 22:24Also a dispute arose among them as to which of them was considered to be greatest. 25Jesus said to them, "The kings of the Gentiles lord it over them; and those who exercise authority over them call themselves Benefactors. 26But you are not to be like that. Instead, the greatest among you should be like the youngest, and the one who rules like the one who serves.
Also
Luke 9:46 An argument started among the disciples as to which of them would be the greatest.
47Jesus, knowing their thoughts, took a little child and had him stand beside him.
48Then he said to them, “Whoever welcomes this little child in my name welcomes me; and whoever welcomes me welcomes the one who sent me. For he who is least among you all—he is the greatest.”

HHHMMMM ??? WHAT ABOUT PETER???

anthony:

Only Peter had the ministry of care for the whole Church.

St. John Chrysostom:

“After that grave fall (for there is no sin equal to denial) after so great a sin, He brought him back to his former honor and entrusted him with the headship of the universal church, and, what is more than all, He showed us that he had a greater love for his master than any of the apostles, for saith he: ‘Peter lovest thou Me more than these?’” (Hom 5 de Poen 2, vol II, 308[311])

“He saith to him, ‘Feed My sheep.’ Why does He pass over the others and speak of the sheep to Peter? He was the chosen one of the apostles, the mouth of the disciples, and the head of the choir; for this reason Paul went up to see him rather than the others. And also to show him that he must have confidence now, since his denial had been purged away, He entrusts him with the rule over the brethren; and the fervent love which thou hast shown throughout, and in which thou didst boast, show now; and the life which thou saidst thou wouldst lay down for Me, give for My sheep.” (Hom 88[87] in Joann 1, vol VIII, 477-9[525-6])

“If anyone should say ‘Why then was it James who received the See of Jerusalem?’ I should reply that He made Peter the teacher not of that See but of the world.” (Homily 88[87])

St. Basil:

“And when he, the instrument of such and so great a judgment; he the minister of the so great wrath of God upon a sinner; that blessed Peter, who was preferred before all the disciples; who alone received a greater testimony and blessing than the rest; he to whom were entrusted the keys of the kingdom of heaven,…” (Procem. de Judic. Dei)

Also Chrysostom, for instance, **calls **Ignatius of Antioch a “successor of Peter, on whom, after Peter, the government of the church devolved, and in another place says still more distinctly: **“Since I have named Peter, I am reminded of another Peter [Flavian, bishop of Antioch], our common father and teacher, who has inherited as well the virtues as the chair of Peter. Yea, for this is the privilege of this city of ours [Antioch], to have first (ἐν ἀρχῇ) had the coryphaeus of the apostles for its teacher. For it was proper that the city, where the Christian name originated, should receive the first of the apostles for its pastor. But after we had him for our teacher, we, did not retain him, but transferred him to imperial Rome.**it is easy to copy and paste
ccel.org/ccel/schaff/hcc3.iii.viii.xiv.html?highlight=epistle,116,to,renatus#highlight

 

[steve_b]

Sacred Scripture.

Scripture never said Peter dispaired or that he was suicidal

Mickey:

You see Steve, St Peter and Judas teach us some very valuable Scriptural lessons. Despair leads to death. Repentance leads to life. Jesus Christ prays for St Peter that he not fall into despair.

Jesus knowing they all would desert Him, and that even Peter would deny Him, still made Peter (hegeomai) because that’s what the Father wants. And Jesus prayed that Peter would (sterizo) his brothers.

Luke 22: Upper Room

24 a dispute arose among them as to which of them was considered to be greatest. 26 the greatest among you should be like the youngest, and the one who rules (hegeomai) like the one who serves. 27 For who is greater, the one who is at the table or the one who serves? Is it not the one who is at the table? But I am among you as one who serves. 28 You are those who have stood by me in my trials. 29 And I confer on you a kingdom, just as my Father conferred one on me, 30 so that you may eat and drink at my table in my kingdom and sit on thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. 31 “Simon, Simon, Satan has asked to sift you (plural) as wheat. 32 But I have prayed for you(singular), Simon, that your faith may not fail. And when you have turned back, strengthen (sterizo) your brothers.”

Hegeomai (Jesus is referring to Simon)

1) to leada) to go beforeb) to be a leader

1) to rule, command2) to have authority over3) a prince, of regal power, governor, viceroy, chief, leading as respects influence, controlling in counsel, overseers or leaders of the churches4) used of any kind of leader, chief, commander5) the leader in speech, chief, spokesman​

2) to consider, deem, account, think

Sterizo (Simon is to)
1) to make stable, place firmly, set fast, fix
2) to strengthen, make firm
3) to render constant, confirm, one’s mind

Notice the language? Peter is to lead, rule, command, have authority over the others, govern, and control in counsels… make stable his brothers, strengthen them, and confirm them…and be the chief spokesman

Gee,

Sounds like the pope and the Catholic Church.

 

[Pons]

Orig. post

St. John Chrysostom ranked the Apostles as follows (as best as I can discern):

After Pentecost:

Peter - the rock, the shepherd of the flock (working for The Good Shepherd), the (chief) keybearer, etc.
|
Peter and James (bar-Zebedee)…
|
…and John → the coryphaei (leaders)
|
The apostles and bishops (including James of Jerusalem)

Peter and John are “teachers of the world”. It is emphasized that Peter did not (have to) hold the Jerusalem see to be as such.*

**After Herod’s persecution, wherein James is martyred: **

Peter
|
Peter and Paul, coryphaei (“Peter the foundation of the Church, Paul the vessel of election”)
|
The apostles and bishops (including James)​

*Not sure where to put this

I’ve seen a webpage on this very topic, but can’t find it. Immediate source - Steve Ray (naturally a Catholic source).

Catholics, are there anything wrong with these statements?

• Peter was all what the other apostles were, in terms of shepherding - and yet more
• thus the bishop of Rome is all what his fellow bishops/patriarchs are, and yet more, in the same terms
• “first among equals” - equal as bishops of their respective immediate flocks/sees - but Peter and his successor in Rome are so much more than just leading patriarchs/bishops

 

[Pons]

This page has a lot of stuff re: inter-church relations and reunification.

 

[prodromos]

Only Peter had the ministry of care for the whole Church.

St. John Chrysostom:

“After that grave fall (for there is no sin equal to denial) after so great a sin, He brought him back to his former honor and entrusted him with the headship of the universal church, and, what is more than all, He showed us that he had a greater love for his master than any of the apostles, for saith he: ‘Peter lovest thou Me more than these?’” (Hom 5 de Poen 2, vol II, 308[311])

“He saith to him, ‘Feed My sheep.’ Why does He pass over the others and speak of the sheep to Peter? He was the chosen one of the apostles, the mouth of the disciples, and the head of the choir; for this reason Paul went up to see him rather than the others. And also to show him that he must have confidence now, since his denial had been purged away, He entrusts him with the rule over the brethren; and the fervent love which thou hast shown throughout, and in which thou didst boast, show now; and the life which thou saidst thou wouldst lay down for Me, give for My sheep.” (Hom 88[87] in Joann 1, vol VIII, 477-9[525-6])

“If anyone should say ‘Why then was it James who received the See of Jerusalem?’ I should reply that He made Peter the teacher not of that See but of the world.” (Homily 88[87])

This is the same St John Chrysostom who spent from three quarters to four fifths of his life as a Christian out of communion with Rome and did not consider it an issue. Chrysostom does not equate Peter with the Popes of Rome.

John

 

[prodromos]

Hegeomai (Jesus is referring to Simon)

This is your eisigesis

 

[Mickey]

Jesus knowing they all would desert Him, and that even Peter would deny Him, still made Peter (hegeomai) because that’s what the Father wants. And Jesus prayed that Peter would (sterizo) his brothers.

You are repeating yourself steve. Let me simplify it further for you.

Knowing that Peter would deny Him, Jesus prayed for him, so that he would not go the way of Judas. He was confirmed back into the fold with Jesus Christ’s triple affirmation in the Gospel of St John–atoning for Peter’s triple denial.

Sounds like the pope and the Catholic Church.

No. Your interpretation attempts to force the post schism Latin understanding of the papacy onto the Sacred Scriptures.

 

[anthony022071]

Mickey:

You attempt to play the quote game by assuming that people will read the papal innovations into the early Church–it does not wash

Augustine:
“But let the reader decide which of these two opinions is the more probable.”

They are both true,of course. But the literal interpretation,Peter is the Rock,logically comes first. The confession of faith can’t be separated from the person.

Augustine:

“Number the priests even from that seat of Peter. And in that order of fathers see to whom succeeded: that is the rock which the proud gates of hades do not conquer.” (Psalmus contro Partem Donati) (A.D. 393).

“For if the lineal succession of bishops is to be taken into account, with how much more certainty and benefit to the Church do we reckon back till we reach Peter himself, to whom, as bearing in a figure the whole Church, the Lord said: ‘Upon this rock will I build my Church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it !’ The successor of Peter was Linus, and his successors in unbroken continuity were these: – Clement, Anacletus, Evaristus, Alexander, Sixtus, Telesphorus, Iginus, Anicetus, Pius, Soter, Eleutherius, Victor, Zephirinus, Calixtus, Urbanus, Pontianus, Antherus, Fabianus, Cornelius, Lucius, Stephanus, Xystus, Dionysius, Felix, Eutychianus, Gaius, Marcellinus, Marcellus, Eusebius, Miltiades, Sylvester, Marcus, Julius, Liberius, Damasus, and Siricius, whose successor is the present Bishop Anastasius." (To Generosus, Epistle 53:2 (A.D. 400), in NPNF1,I:298)

 

[anthony022071]

Mickey:

St Ambrose

…Faith, then, is the foundation of the Church, for it was not said of Peter’s flesh, but of his faith, that ‘the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.’ But his confession of faith conquered hell. And this confession did not shut out one heresy, for, since the Church like a good ship is often buffeted by many waves, the foundation of the Church should prevail against all heresies

Ambrose:

“Christ is the Rock, ‘For they drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them, and that Rock was Christ,’ and He did not refuse to bestow the favour of this title even upon His disciple, so that he, too, might be Peter [or, Rock], in that he has from the Rock a solid constancy, a firm faith.” (Expos. in Luc.)

[Christ] made answer: “You are Peter, and upon this rock will I build my Church . . .” Could he not, then, strengthen the faith of the man to whom, acting on his own authority, he gave the kingdom, whom he called the rock, thereby declaring him to be the foundation of the Church? (The Faith 4:5 [A.D. 379]).

It is to Peter that he says: “You are Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church” [Matt. 16:18]. Where Peter is, there is the Church. And where the Church, no death is there, but life eternal (Commentary on Twelve Psalms of David 40:30 [A.D. 389]).

“We recognize in the letter of your holiness the vigilance of the good shepherd. You faithfully watch over the gate entrusted to you, and you with pious solicitude you guard Christ’s sheepfold (Jn 10:7ff.), you are wirthy to have the Lord’s sheep hear follow you. Since you know the sheep of Christ you will easily catch the wolves and confront them like a wary shepherd, lest they disperse the Lord’s flock by their constant lack of faith and their bestial howling.” (Synodal Letter of Ambrose, Sabinus, Bassian, and Others to Pope Siricius 42,1).

 

[Mickey]

St Ambrose
He, then, who before was silent, to teach us that we ought not to repeat the words of the impious, this one, I say, when he heard, ‘But who do you say I am,’ immediately, not unmindful of his station, exercised his primacy, that is, the primacy of confession, not of honor; the primacy of belief, not of rank. This, then, is Peter, who has replied for the rest of the Apostles; rather, before the rest of men. And so he is called the foundation, because he knows how to preserve not only his own but the common foundation…Faith, then, is the foundation of the Church, for it was not said of Peter’s flesh, but of his faith, that ‘the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.’ But his confession of faith conquered hell. And this confession did not shut out one heresy, for, since the Church like a good ship is often buffeted by many waves, the foundation of the Church should prevail against all heresies (The Fathers of the Church (Washington D.C., Catholic University, 1963), Saint Ambrose, Theological and Dogmatic Works, The Sacrament of the Incarnation of Our Lord IV.32-V.34, pp. 230-231).

 

[Mickey]

St. Hieron. Epist. 146 ad Ev.

“We must not believe that the city of Rome is a different church from that of the whole world. Gaul, Britain, Africa, Persia, the East, India, all the barbarous nations, adore Jesus Christ, and observe one and the same rule of truth. If one is looking for authority, the world is greater than one city. Wherever there is a Bishop, be he at Rome or at Eugubium, at Constantinople or at Rhegium, at Alexandria or at Tanis, he has the same authority, the same merit, because he has the same priesthood. The power that riches give, and the low estate to which poverty reduces, render a Bishop neither greater nor less.”

 

[anthony022071]

**St. Cyril of Alexandria, Letter to Nestorius:
**
“Peter and John were equal in dignity and honor. Christ is the foundation of all -the unshakeable Rock upon which we are all built as a spiritual edifice.”

Dignity and honor perhaps,but not authority.

Cyril of Alexandria:

He (Christ) promises to found the Church, assigning immovableness to it, as He is the Lord of strength, and over this He sets Peter as shepherd. (Cyril, Comm. on Matt., ad loc.)

They (the Apostles) strove to learn through one, that preeminent one, Peter. (Cyril, Comm. on John’s Gospel).

And even blessed Peter, though set over the holy disciples, says 'Lord, be it far from Thee, this shall be done to Thee. (Cyril, Comm. on John’s Gospel)

Besides all these, let there come forward that leader of the holy disciples, Peter, who, when the Lord, on a certain occassion, asked him, ‘Whom do men say that the Son of man is?’ instantly cried out, ‘Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God.’ (Cyril, T. v. P.2, Hom. viii. De Fest. Pasch. p. 105)

This bold man (Julian), besides all this, cavils at Peter, the chosen one of the holy Apostles. (Cyril, T. vi.l. ix. Contr. Julian.).

 

[anthony022071]

Mickey:

They are both true,of course. But the literal interpretation,Peter is the Rock,logically comes first. The confession of faith can’t be separated from the person.

Augustine:

“Number the priests even from that seat of Peter. And in that order of fathers see to whom succeeded: that is the rock which the proud gates of hades do not conquer.” (Psalmus contro Partem Donati) (A.D. 393).

“For if the lineal succession of bishops is to be taken into account, with how much more certainty and benefit to the Church do we reckon back till we reach Peter himself, to whom, as bearing in a figure the whole Church, the Lord said: ‘Upon this rock will I build my Church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it!’ The successor of Peter was Linus, and his successors in unbroken continuity were these: – Clement, Anacletus, Evaristus, Alexander, Sixtus, Telesphorus, Iginus, Anicetus, Pius, Soter, Eleutherius, Victor, Zephirinus, Calixtus, Urbanus, Pontianus, Antherus, Fabianus, Cornelius, Lucius, Stephanus, Xystus, Dionysius, Felix, Eutychianus, Gaius, Marcellinus, Marcellus, Eusebius, Miltiades, Sylvester, Marcus, Julius, Liberius, Damasus, and Siricius, whose successor is the present Bishop Anastasius." (To Generosus, Epistle 53:2 (A.D. 400), in NPNF1,I:298)

 

[Mickey]

But the literal interpretation,Peter is the Rock,logically comes first.

Wrong. The consesus of Church Father’s point to St Peter’s confession. Of course others say that the Rock in Matthew 16 is referring to Jesus Christ only.

You must try to stop reading ultramontanist innovations into Scripture and the Fathers.

 

[Mickey]

St Augustine****
In a passage in this book, I said about the Apostle Peter: ‘On him as on a rock the Church was built’…But I know that very frequently at a later time, I so explained what the Lord said: ‘Thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my Church,’ that it be understood as built upon Him whom Peter confessed saying: ‘Thou art the Christ, the Son of the living God,’ and so Peter, called after this rock, represented the person of the Church which is built upon this rock, and has received ‘the keys of the kingdom of heaven.’** For, ‘Thou art Peter’ and not ‘Thou art the rock’ was said to him. But ‘the rock was Christ,’ in confessing whom, as also the whole Church confesses, Simon was called Peter.** But let the reader decide which of these two opinions is the more probable (The Fathers of the Church (Washington D.C., Catholic University, 1968), Saint Augustine, The Retractations Chapter 20.1).

 

[Mickey]

Dignity and honor perhaps,but not authority.

Really???
All had dignity, honour, and authority. St Peter was a spokesman at times. But all were given the keys. All were given authority.

Please stop twisting.

 

[anthony022071]

Mickey:

Wrong. The consesus of Church Father’s point to St Peter’s confession. Of course others say that the Rock in Matthew 16 is referring to Jesus Christ only.

That’s not true. The majority of references to the Rock point to Peter himself.

You must try to stop reading ultramontanist innovations into Scripture and the Fathers.

The supposed “innovations” are to be found in the writings of the Eastern Church fathers themselves. Overall,they were as emphatic as the Western fathers about Peter being the Rock,and the Head,and about papal authority.