Why is "the end" so complicated? (Edited title)

[daler]

First of all we must understand that the** Revelation of Jesus Christ is prophetic**, and prophetic revelations are explained by prophets. If they were so simple, the devil will have make sure that this Revelation was not included in the Cannon of the New Testament, because it speaks of how he is going to be thrown into the lake of fire for all eternity. But I believe that in the moment the prophetic stops been prophetic and becomes reality, everyone will understand everything.

To read the Revelation we are ask to have ‘wisdom’ (Rev 13:8). Therefore let us pray to God for that and to send prophets to his Church, in these difficult and immoral times that we are living in. We need the two witnesses to be revealed.

In the love of Christ and of His Revelation,
Gloria

Dear Gloria,
. This will be unexpected, and something maybe difficult to consider, but I have much reason to believe that some of Revelation has to do with the history of Islam, and that if objectivity can be the scale, sufficient reasons exist to make a strong case. As per your questions about the two witnesses, this figures into the appearance of Muhammad and Ali, which you may simply wish to dismiss and go no further. Or, it can be considered, since Islam has a billion plus followers and actually traces back to Abraham and Hagar and Isaac, of whom God said He would make a “great nation”
. With “automatic” prejudices aside, there is much which ties in to this. I won’t go into much detail, but please see for starters the previous post on 1260, and I give you a link which you may wish to consider from Some Answered Questions, by Abdul Baha. I am not a Muslim, by the way, but interested in such topics of the religions and how they do connect here and there:

reference.bahai.org/en/t/ab/SAQ/

Particular attention from Chapters 10 through 13 would be very enlightening.

Please let me know if my suggestions are unwelcome, or if they are in fact helpful to you.

Thank you and God bless you,
Dale

 

[Gloria_de_G]

Dear Gloria,
. This will be unexpected, and something maybe difficult to consider, but I have much reason to believe that some of Revelation has to do with the history of Islam, and that if objectivity can be the scale, sufficient reasons exist to make a strong case. As per your questions about the two witnesses, this figures into the appearance of Muhammad and Ali, which you may simply wish to dismiss and go no further. Or, it can be considered, since Islam has a billion plus followers and actually traces back to Abraham and Hagar and Isaac, of whom God said He would make a “great nation”
. With “automatic” prejudices aside, there is much which ties in to this. I won’t go into much detail, but please see for starters the previous post on 1260, and I give you a link which you may wish to consider from Some Answered Questions, by Abdul Baha. I am not a Muslim, by the way, but interested in such topics of the religions and how they do connect here and there:

reference.bahai.org/en/t/ab/SAQ/

Particular attention from Chapters 10 through 13 would be very enlightening.

Please let me know if my suggestions are unwelcome, or if they are in fact helpful to you.

Thank you and God bless you,
Dale

I write you very quickly because I have to go to Church. WHO is talking about Islam. Islam does not have to do nothing with the Revelation of Jesus Christ and the two witnesses come from within the Catholic Church, do not be deceive please.

Learn about the Revelation here: newtorah.org

In the love of Christ,
Gloria

 

[daler]

I write you very quickly because I have to go to Church. WHO is talking about Islam. Islam does not have to do nothing with the Revelation of Jesus Christ and the two witnesses come from within the Catholic Church, do not be deceive please.

Learn about the Revelation here: newtorah.org

In the love of Christ,
Gloria

Gloria,
. Its all a great big jigsaw puzzle. When we stand back far enough and fiddle around with the pieces, fit them this way, or try them that way, and there are still pieces left over, we gotta step back again and take another look. I’m just sharing how I see the pieces falling in place.

. You know those 1000 piece puzzles? Or more, even? Well, when we look at the whole world, with a billion and some Muslims, nearly as many Hindus, then the Buddhists, American Indians, and all the denominations of Christians, etc, Well, there’s a whole lot of folds that need to get shepherded at some point into the One Fold and One Shepherd story.

. So where do a billion Muslims fit in this puzzle? Right next to the Christians, and the Hindus, and all the other pieces. But maybe not in the traditional way of looking at the puzzle. Maybe we’ve got to turn that cloud upside down over there, or move that mountain a little to the left, and that sand dune? How do you tell if its upside down or backwards anyway?

.

 

[Gloria_de_G]

Gloria,
. Its all a great big jigsaw puzzle. When we stand back far enough and fiddle around with the pieces, fit them this way, or try them that way, and there are still pieces left over, we gotta step back again and take another look. I’m just sharing how I see the pieces falling in place.

. You know those 1000 piece puzzles? Or more, even? Well, when we look at the whole world, with a billion and some Muslims, nearly as many Hindus, then the Buddhists, American Indians, and all the denominations of Christians, etc, Well, there’s a whole lot of folds that need to get shepherded at some point into the One Fold and One Shepherd story.

. So where do a billion Muslims fit in this puzzle? Right next to the Christians, and the Hindus, and all the other pieces. But maybe not in the traditional way of looking at the puzzle. Maybe we’ve got to turn that cloud upside down over there, or move that mountain a little to the left, and that sand dune? How do you tell if its upside down or backwards anyway?

.

Dear Daler,
The power of God in not in the numbers but in the Spirit of God. And the two witnesses have it and will cause such a trouble, that people will have to rethink their believes, because they are witnesses of Jesus Christ from inside the Catholic Church.

Go and read what I said. There is a commentary in the link below that you can first pick up here and there in the text of Reveletion, something that interest you and click on the red number adjacent. A little window will open with the interpretation of that word or passage in particular.

**newtorah.org **

In the love of the truth,
Gloria

 

[daler]

Dear Daler,
The power of God in not in the numbers but in the Spirit of God. And the two witnesses have it and will cause such a trouble, that people will have to rethink their believes, because they are witnesses of Jesus Christ from inside the Catholic Church.

Go and read what I said. There is a commentary in the link below that you can first pick up here and there in the text of Reveletion, something that interest you and click on the red number adjacent. A little window will open with the interpretation of that word or passage in particular.

newtorah.org

In the love of the truth,
Gloria

Dear Gloria,
. Thank you for further kind reply. I read your link with interest, and wish to comment briefly:

62 (17)He who has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches. To the one who overcomes I will give from the hidden manna,63 and I will give him a little white stone, and on the stone a new name is written which no one knows except the one who receives it.64

To me, manna from heaven signifies Revelation from the Heaven of God’s will, and the Hidden Manna was yet to come, thus hidden until the time of the end, when the Lord would unseal the Holy Books. The Hidden Words of Baha’u’llah may be what this refers to and I’ll give you a link and you can of course form your own conclusions:

It begins with these words:

“HE IS THE GLORY OF GLORIES
This is that which hath descended from the realm of glory, uttered by the tongue of power and might, and revealed unto the Prophets of old. We have taken the inner essence thereof and clothed it in the garment of brevity, as a token of grace unto the righteous, that they may stand faithful unto the Covenant of God, may fulfill in their lives His trust, and in the realm of spirit obtain the gem of Divine virtue.”

reference.bahai.org/en/t/b/HW/

You may enjoy these brief passages one at a time, or a couple, but if you wouldn’t mind sharing your impressions with me I would be delighted.

Again, for me, the “white stone” signifies a “pure faith” with a “New Name” which is known to those who receive it. It is also mentioned in Isaiah 62:2 “Thou shalt be called by a New Name which the mouth of the Lord shall utter.” These both refer to the latter times in the days of the Lord’s return.

Thank you for the personal reflections from your own understanding and please share with me further.

May God’s blessings be upon you and your family in the Christmas season.

Dale

 

[Gloria_de_G]

Dear Gloria,

"HE IS THE GLORY OF GLORIES

Dale

You know Dele I really feel sorry that you have been deceived like this. Please let me explain.

You believe that Baha’u’llah is the Glory of Glories, this is what is written. I know his writings I have study very carefully the Bahai’s philosophy.

There are 3 points:
You believe that Baha’u’llah is the second coming of Christ.

Obviously to me you never have read this:

"…then will appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory" Mt 24:30

"all the tribes of the earth will mourn" if we start from the tribe of Islam, they never mourn for Baha’u’llah’s death. He first want to preach Christianity to Islam but because he was not received, even I remember he was put in jail for some time. Until he realized he was not going to change Islam and turn to Christians to try to deceive us. In fact, we know that Jesus Christ is in heaven and that he resurrected from the death and death does not have any more power over him. But of Baha’u’llah we know that he died and was buried there in Haifa and probably by now all the worms have eaten even his bones.

"the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory" well, of Baha’u’llah we know he did not come like that, therefore that is why he ended in the grave.

And just to add something else we know. The Second Coming of Christ can not take place before the two witnesses come, that is why you have to say that Mohamed and Ali were the two witnesses. Do you really think that we are that ignorant? Just to help you:

These two did not have for their Lord Jesus Christ, but Allah.
Therefore the did not die in the city where their Lord was crucified, ie Jerusalem, simply because he was not their Lord.
They did not prophesy 1,260 days dress in sackcloth, nor stop the rain or brought plagues… and to say the least they did not went up to heaven in the eyes of their enemies.

Look Dale, I really recommend you to go and read the New Testament if you want your soul to be save, we are living the end times and the two witnesses are about to come, not from Islam but from the Catholic Church. Islam did not believe in Jesus more than they believe in any other ancient prophet. This teachings Baha’u’llah took from the Koran, calling it a holly book. For him Jesus was just another one, another pesonage as he called him.

I could tell you lots of things, but really I thing this is the most important if you want to hear. And do not take offense in what I said, because is just the truth.

In the love of Christ and of His teachings,
Gloria

.

 

[Gloria_de_G]

You know Dale I really feel sorry that you have been deceived like this. Please let me explain.

You believe that Baha’u’llah is the Glory of Glories, this is what is written. I know his writings I have study very carefully the Bahai’s philosophy.

There are 3 points:
You believe that Baha’u’llah is the second coming of Christ.

Obviously to me you never have read this:

"…then will appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory" Mt 24:30

"all the tribes of the earth will mourn" if we start from the tribe of Islam, they never mourn for Baha’u’llah’s death. He first wants to preach Christianity to Islam but because he was not received, even I remember he was put in jail for some time. Until he realized he was not going to change Islam and turn to Christians to try to deceive us. In fact, we know that Jesus Christ is in heaven and that he resurrected from the death and death does not have any more power over him. But of Baha’u’llah we know that he died and was buried there in Haifa and probably by now all the worms have eaten even his bones.

"the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory" well, of Baha’u’llah we know he did not come like that, therefore that is why he ended in the grave.

And just to add something else we know. The Second Coming of Christ can not take place before the two witnesses come, that is why you have to say that Mohamed and Ali were the two witnesses. Do you really think that we are that ignorant? Just to help you:

These two did not have for their Lord Jesus Christ, but Allah.
Therefore they did not die in the city where their Lord was crucified, i.e. Jerusalem, simply because he was not their Lord.
They did not prophesy 1,260 days dress in sackcloth, nor stop the rain or brought plagues… and to say the least they did not went up to heaven in the eyes of their enemies.

Look Dale, I really recommend you to go and read the New Testament if you want your soul to be save, we are living the end times and the two witnesses are about to come, not from Islam but from the Catholic Church. Islam did not believe in Jesus more than they believe in any other ancient prophet. This teachings Baha’u’llah took from the Koran, calling it a holly book. For him Jesus was just another one, another personage as he called him.

I could tell you lots of things, but really I thing this is the most important if you want to hear. And do not take offense in what I said, because is just the truth.

In the love of Christ and of His teachings,
Gloria

.

Sorry I forgot to correct the spelling… I hope now is ok.

 

[daler]

You know Dele I really feel sorry that you have been deceived like this. Please let me explain.

You believe that Baha’u’llah is the Glory of Glories, this is what is written. I know his writings I have study very carefully the Bahai’s philosophy.

There are 3 points:
You believe that Baha’u’llah is the second coming of Christ.

Obviously to me you never have read this:

"…then will appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory" Mt 24:30

"all the tribes of the earth will mourn" if we start from the tribe of Islam, they never mourn for Baha’u’llah’s death. He first want to preach Christianity to Islam but because he was not received, even I remember he was put in jail for some time. Until he realized he was not going to change Islam and turn to Christians to try to deceive us. In fact, we know that Jesus Christ is in heaven and that he resurrected from the death and death does not have any more power over him. But of Baha’u’llah we know that he died and was buried there in Haifa and probably by now all the worms have eaten even his bones.

"the Son of man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory" well, of Baha’u’llah we know he did not come like that, therefore that is why he ended in the grave.

And just to add something else we know. The Second Coming of Christ can not take place before the two witnesses come, that is why you have to say that Mohamed and Ali were the two witnesses. Do you really think that we are that ignorant? Just to help you:

These two did not have for their Lord Jesus Christ, but Allah.
Therefore the did not die in the city where their Lord was crucified, ie Jerusalem, simply because he was not their Lord.
They did not prophesy 1,260 days dress in sackcloth, nor stop the rain or brought plagues… and to say the least they did not went up to heaven in the eyes of their enemies.

Look Dale, I really recommend you to go and read the New Testament if you want your soul to be save, we are living the end times and the two witnesses are about to come, not from Islam but from the Catholic Church. Islam did not believe in Jesus more than they believe in any other ancient prophet. This teachings Baha’u’llah took from the Koran, calling it a holly book. For him Jesus was just another one, another pesonage as he called him.

I could tell you lots of things, but really I thing this is the most important if you want to hear. And do not take offense in what I said, because is just the truth.

In the love of Christ and of His teachings,
Gloria

.

Dear Gloria,
. I greatly appreciate your wonderful heart and all true intentions, which you obviously have. May I first mention, that in reference to “He is the Glory of Glories”, this is an invocation to God, Who is the Most Glorious of all that is Glorious.

. I think that words confuse people. They are like little boxes, with meaning inside. The meaning is not the box, but held inside, like little Christmas presents. We have to unwrap the boxes and discover whats inside. Sometimes there can be more than one present in a box, yes?

. I am not new to Baha’i, but have been at it for over thirty years, and about as long prior to that as a Christian, although I had much interest in discovering what my Native American friends believed, as well as Buddhist, Jewish, Hindu, etc. So I did my exploring, and found much commonality beneath the outer wrappings of the boxes.

. I studied for 6 months with 7th Day Adventists, and they had all the 1844 stuff worked out very well, but I totally disagree with their conclusions about 1260 - where it begins and ends. They are rabidly anti-Catholic, or against the Papacy, and unjustly so, in my opinion.

. However, the point I am trying to make is this. That even as the Jews were so “certain” that Christ could not have been the Messiah, “because… because… because…” it is easy to see how people do have these blocks formed from the generations surrounding themselves, reinforcing whatever this or that may happen to be.

. Its like those fine little Mormon kids on bicycles who have never once considered that had they been born Hindu, they’d be telling people about Hare Krsna or something. We all start out assuming that we won the spiritual lottery and everybody else is poor. So everyone has the responsibility to search for spiritual truth, and not simply inherit ancestral beliefs. I don’t know if you would agree with this or not.

. Anyway, yes, it took me awhile, but being a kind of a math nut when I was a kid, the numbers part of prophecy fascinated me. Then at some point in my research I had to look at how 2300 ended up being 1844 AD, which just “happens” to be the year 1260 AH, and all of this happened in “Elam” (SW Persia) where Daniel had his great vision, and where Jeremiah said the Lord would set His throne, etc. Long, long story…

. God bless you, Gloria! You have a wonderful heart and are true to your Lord.

Peace, and Merry Christmas to you…
.

 

[jochoa]

Why is “the end” so complicated?

Because of how complicated it is for us to become as loving and as perfect as our God.

 

[daler]

Im inclined to think that Revelation was written in a symbolic style because the Roman Empire would not have been too thrilled about a ‘Kingdom of God’ getting started when they were supposed to be in charge. If John had been too straight forward it would have been burned before the ink was dry.

Cyber,
. I’m with you on this. It was “coded” language. Like the old negro spiritual slave songs which held all kinds of meaning that they themselves understood and passed on to one another, right under their white master’s eyes and ears, who couldn’t understand a word they said…

. Meanwhile, they jus’ kep’ shuckin’ an’ jivin’… all the ways up no’th, ya’ll followin’ d undergroun’ railroad. Choo choo choo choo “Yesa masa, you sho’ is somethin’…”

. Religion has many a coded message. It sends the fox on one trail while hidin’ the rabbit in a hole…

.

 

[Kamaz]

. The “end of the aeon” means the end of an era, not the end of the world. The latter was a mistaken understanding, as I understand it. so if people thing “the world” is going to end, thats incorrect. It is referring to one era ending, followed by a new era.

. Another aspect has to do with Daniel’s prophecies about the time of the end. The meaning of his visions were “sealed” to him, and God said the meaning would be known at the end of the times, times, and a half. Each “time” referred to a period of 360 years.

. Hence, time = 360, times = 720 (2 times), and a half (of time) = 180 Total = 1260

. This figure of 1260 is also mentioned in Revelation in several ways. 42 months of 30 days (years) = 1260 Also, 3 1/2 days (of years) again = 1260

I also agree that Daniel’s prophecies are related to Revelation prophecies.
In Daniel 2, when King Nebuchadnezzar saw a dream, When Daniel interpreted it, it gave a chronology of Empires that would rule the world.

 

[Gloria_de_G]

Dear Gloria,
. I greatly appreciate your wonderful heart and all true intentions, which you obviously have. May I first mention, that in reference to “He is the Glory of Glories”, this is an invocation to God, Who is the Most Glorious of all that is Glorious.

See, this is from your own Bahai writtings. And please let us not talk any more about this because this is another thred.

"He also wishes me to inform you that the symbol of the Greatest Name represents an invocation which can be translated either as O Glory of Glories' or O Glory of the All-Glorious’. The word Glory used in this connection is a translation of the Arabic term `Baha, the name of Baha’u’llah." … **
And this is why he has this name because you believe** he is the second coming of Christ.

In the love of Christ
Gloria

.

 

[Kamaz]

Surely I agree that the book of Revelation is complicated because of the imageries that it uses.

To Understand the scriptures, we have to cross check as SCRIPTURE interprets SCRIPTURE.
In Daniel 2, King Nebuchadnezzar had a dream which was interpreted as empires to rule the world over time. The golden head was the Babylonian Empire; Silver chest & belly was the Medo-Persian Empire which overthrew the Babylonians; the bronze thighs was the Greek Empire under Alexander the Great; the legs of IRON is interpreted as the mighty Roman Empire under the Roman Ceasars.

The last Empire just before the coming of Christ is the feet of IRON mixed with CLAY.
As all the former empires had their part, we are left with this last empire of Iron (of the former Roman Empire) and Clay.
We need God, as he revealed to Daniel also to reveal to us what this Iron/Clay mixture Empire stands for.

This is the Empire that Christ will crush at “the end of time”.

In Revelation, Christ came during the Roman Empire under which He was crucified on a cross by the Roman soldiers.
Thus the prophecies of the book of Revelation are in regard to the Roman Empire of that time, and the last Empire that was to come after the Roman Empire.

We ask ourselves; When did the Roman Empire come to an end and which other empire took over? If we get the answer to this, we might be able to understand the end times.

In Revelation we see the following symbolism:

1. Symbolism of Numbers & multiples
   2 stands for a sure testimony
   3 stands for trinity
   3½ stands for in-completion
   7 stands for completeness
   10 stands for expansive, a large number
   Multiples
   12 = 3x4 it may also stand for the 12 tribes of Israel
   24 = 12x2 it may stand for old testament & new testament believers
   1000 = 10x10x10 may stand for may years or very many people
2. Symbolism of human beings
   A woman stands for a religious system eg a bride= church; a harlot= pagan religion.
3. Symbolism of beastly animals
   Dragon: stands for the devil
   Beast stands for a very evil man/ or a government system
   Antichrist: a person who will exalt himself as God and demand to be worshiped
4. Symbolism of parts
   Horn: stands for strength (7 horns would imply completeness of strength)
   Head: stands for authority (10 horns would therefore imply vast authority)

 

[daler]

I also agree that Daniel’s prophecies are related to Revelation prophecies.
In Daniel 2, when King Nebuchadnezzar saw a dream, When Daniel interpreted it, it gave a chronology of Empires that would rule the world.

Kamaz,
. Yeah, I studied with some Adventists who were big on that stuff. Some of it made some sense, but a lot of what they think is way too Hollywood…
. So I know its real, but all these preachers make stuff up and think God’s talkin’ to 'em, if you know what I mean. Then they want your money!

. Anyway, Daniel was told its all sealed until the time of the end, when God would make known the meaning. So none of these guys could “unseal” the books. Same in Revelation. And people who take it too literally end up missing the meaning of the metaphors, and it really doesn’t make much sense that a two-edged sword is gonna come out of the Mouth of the Lord like that.

. But if we take it to mean that by His Word, He divides the believers from the unbelievers, then His Word works like a sword.

.

 

[daler]

Surely I agree that the book of Revelation is complicated because of the imageries that it uses.

To Understand the scriptures, we have to cross check as SCRIPTURE interprets SCRIPTURE.
In Daniel 2, King Nebuchadnezzar had a dream which was interpreted as empires to rule the world over time. The golden head was the Babylonian Empire; Silver chest & belly was the Medo-Persian Empire which overthrew the Babylonians; the bronze thighs was the Greek Empire under Alexander the Great; the legs of IRON is interpreted as the mighty Roman Empire under the Roman Ceasars.

The last Empire just before the coming of Christ is the feet of IRON mixed with CLAY.
As all the former empires had their part, we are left with this last empire of Iron (of the former Roman Empire) and Clay.
We need God, as he revealed to Daniel also to reveal to us what this Iron/Clay mixture Empire stands for.

This is the Empire that Christ will crush at “the end of time”.

In Revelation, Christ came during the Roman Empire under which He was crucified on a cross by the Roman soldiers.
Thus the prophecies of the book of Revelation are in regard to the Roman Empire of that time, and the last Empire that was to come after the Roman Empire.

We ask ourselves; When did the Roman Empire come to an end and which other empire took over? If we get the answer to this, we might be able to understand the end times.

In Revelation we see the following symbolism:

1. Symbolism of Numbers & multiples
   2 stands for a sure testimony
   3 stands for trinity
   3½ stands for in-completion
   7 stands for completeness
   10 stands for expansive, a large number
   Multiples
   12 = 3x4 it may also stand for the 12 tribes of Israel
   24 = 12x2 it may stand for old testament & new testament believers
   1000 = 10x10x10 may stand for may years or very many people
2. Symbolism of human beings
   A woman stands for a religious system eg a bride= church; a harlot= pagan religion.
3. Symbolism of beastly animals
   Dragon: stands for the devil
   Beast stands for a very evil man/ or a government system
   Antichrist: a person who will exalt himself as God and demand to be worshiped
4. Symbolism of parts
   Horn: stands for strength (7 horns would imply completeness of strength)
   Head: stands for authority (10 horns would therefore imply vast authority)

Yes, very interesting, Kamaz,
. I don’t know if you are interested in the perspective found here, but in several Chapters of this book, Some Answered Questions, it deals with some of this in a very unique way. You might want to give it look through. Especially chp 10 to 13

reference.bahai.org/en/t/ab/SAQ/

 

[daler]

See, this is from your own Bahai writtings. And please let us not talk any more about this because this is another thred.

"He also wishes me to inform you that the symbol of the Greatest Name represents an invocation which can be translated either as O Glory of Glories' or O Glory of the All-Glorious’. The word Glory used in this connection is a translation of the Arabic term `Baha, the name of Baha’u’llah." … **
And this is why he has this name because you believe** he is the second coming of Christ.

In the love of Christ
Gloria

.

Gloria,
. Sorry. Didn’t mean to offend you or throw the thread off track. Just my own “end times” understanding given.
. I see you are from Jerusalem. Wow! That must be something to live there, eh? I did get to visit Haifa and Akka 3 1/2 years ago.

Peace to you,
Dale

 

[Gloria_de_G]

. The “end of the aeon” means the end of an era, not the end of the world. The latter was a mistaken understanding, as I understand it. so if people thing “the world” is going to end, thats incorrect. It is referring to one era ending, followed by a new era.

. Another aspect has to do with Daniel’s prophecies about the time of the end. The meaning of his visions were “sealed” to him, and God said the meaning would be known at the end of the times, times, and a half. ** Each “time” referred to a period of 360 years.**

. Hence, time = 360, times = 720 (2 times), and a half (of time) = 180 Total = 1260

. This figure of 1260 is also mentioned in Revelation in several ways. 42 months of 30 days (years) = 1260 Also, 3 1/2 days (of years) again = 1260

What I put in bold I just think is arbitrary and if you do not give references as from where you said that each time refers to 360 years, I will think you are just inventing it because it makes some nice conclusions.

Here is another explanation for the times, time and half a time:

The first point to note is that the time periods are not the same:** 1260 days is the time of the two witnesses**, the first half of the final ‘week of years’ spoke by Daniel (Dn 9:24:27). The expression ‘a time, two times and half a time’ derives from Daniel (Dn 7,23-25; 12,7), where it signifies the** period of the saints’ persecution** under the tyrant called the ‘little horn’. In Revelation, the analogous period of persecution is the 42-month reign of the ‘beast from the sea’ (Rev 13,5-7). This 42-month period constitutes the second half of the final ‘week of years’ and is when the Great Tribulation takes place.

The** 3 1/2 days of Revelation of the death of the two witnesses**, you just have to put a bit more mind into it and will see that the corpses of the two witnesses will not be able to stay in the street for 1,260 days. Wouldn’t they? Without trying to offend you, you really need to be out of the Church to be able to think that this interpretation of yours is right.

Hope this helps,
Gloria

.

 

[Gloria_de_G]

Gloria,
. Sorry. Didn’t mean to offend you or throw the thread off track. Just my own “end times” understanding given.
. I see you are from Jerusalem. Wow! That must be something to live there, eh? I did get to visit Haifa and Akka 3 1/2 years ago.

Peace to you,
Dale

Don’t worry, but yes it is quite a thing to live here! I have been living here for the last 16 years.

Peace also be with you,
Gloria

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[Gloria_de_G]

Surely I agree that the book of Revelation is complicated because of the imageries that it uses.

To Understand the scriptures, we have to cross check as SCRIPTURE interprets SCRIPTURE.
In Daniel 2, King Nebuchadnezzar had a dream which was interpreted as empires to rule the world over time. The golden head was the Babylonian Empire; Silver chest & belly was the Medo-Persian Empire which overthrew the Babylonians; the bronze thighs was the Greek Empire under Alexander the Great; the legs of IRON is interpreted as the mighty Roman Empire under the Roman Ceasars.

The last Empire just before the coming of Christ is the feet of IRON mixed with CLAY.
As all the former empires had their part, we are left with this last empire of Iron (of the former Roman Empire) and Clay.
We need God, as he revealed to Daniel also to reveal to us what this Iron/Clay mixture Empire stands for.

This is the Empire that Christ will crush at “the end of time”.

In Revelation, Christ came during the Roman Empire under which He was crucified on a cross by the Roman soldiers.
Thus the prophecies of the book of Revelation are in regard to the Roman Empire of that time, and the last Empire that was to come after the Roman Empire.

We ask ourselves; When did the Roman Empire come to an end and which other empire took over? If we get the answer to this, we might be able to understand the end times.

In Revelation we see the following symbolism:

1. Symbolism of Numbers & multiples
   2 stands for a sure testimony
   3 stands for trinity
   3½ stands for in-completion
   7 stands for completeness
   10 stands for expansive, a large number
   Multiples
   12 = 3x4 it may also stand for the 12 tribes of Israel
   24 = 12x2 it may stand for old testament & new testament believers
   1000 = 10x10x10 may stand for may years or very many people
2. Symbolism of human beings
   A woman stands for a religious system eg a bride= church; a harlot= pagan religion.
3. Symbolism of beastly animals
   Dragon: stands for the devil
   Beast stands for a very evil man/ or a government system
   Antichrist: a person who will exalt himself as God and demand to be worshiped
4. Symbolism of parts
   Horn: stands for strength (7 horns would imply completeness of strength)
   Head: stands for authority (10 horns would therefore imply vast authority)

SORRY TO SPEAK A BIT ALOUD BUT
LET ME QUOTE THIS IF YOU WANT TO UNDERSTAND
THE BOOK OF REVELATION:

16 “The law and the prophets were in effect until John came; since then the good news of the kingdom of God is proclaimed, and everyone is strongly urged to enter it" Lk 16:16

To the prophets of the OT we just go for tips to find meanings but not to interpret what is going to happen from their prophecies, that is why we have Jesus Christ, if not you just show that you do not believe in His Revelation. He changed the prophecies of the OT with his advent and now he gives us the meaning fully.

Why not visit this site made by Catholics and look at the commentary it may help:

newtorah.org

In the love of His Revelation,
Gloria

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[daler]

What I put in bold I just think is arbitrary and if you do not give references as from where you said that each time refers to 360 years, I will think you are just inventing it because it makes some nice conclusions.

Here is another explanation for the times, time and half a time:

The first point to note is that the time periods are not the same:** 1260 days is the time of the two witnesses**, the first half of the final ‘week of years’ spoke by Daniel (Dn 9:24:27). The expression ‘a time, two times and half a time’ derives from Daniel (Dn 7,23-25; 12,7), where it signifies the** period of the saints’ persecution** under the tyrant called the ‘little horn’. In Revelation, the analogous period of persecution is the 42-month reign of the ‘beast from the sea’ (Rev 13,5-7). This 42-month period constitutes the second half of the final ‘week of years’ and is when the Great Tribulation takes place.

The** 3 1/2 days of Revelation of the death of the two witnesses**, you just have to put a bit more mind into it and will see that the corpses of the two witnesses will not be able to stay in the street for 1,260 days. Wouldn’t they? Without trying to offend you, you really need to be out of the Church to be able to think that this interpretation of yours is right.

Hope this helps,
Gloria

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Gloria,
. Please forgive me for being tired out right now. I’ve studied this in the past and been quite convinced at the “each day for a year” thing, and how their 360 days were the years, etc. Just too tired to go into it right now, but will offer to refer you to the same information above, and really wish you wouldn’t mind giving some of it a read. I know its asking alot, but it really isn’t long, and most of what I’d end up saying to you would be in the words of Abdul Baha and it sheds light on the two witnesses and the 1260 stuff.

. I truly want to thank you for your patience and wish that I could join you for tea in Jerusalem one day. God bless you, Gloria. I just sense a very fine spirit in you and appreciate it greatly. Gnite, dear friend:

. Several Chapters of this book, Some Answered Questions, ideals with some of this in a very unique way. You might want to give it look through. Especially chp 10 to 13

reference.bahai.org/en/t/ab/SAQ/

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