Why is the US Catholic church so obsessed with the gay issue?

[Contarini]

There are some very good posts one this thread. Perhaps the Catholic Church is “obsessed” (not my words, as I do not think it is) with SSM because of articles such as this:

illinoisfamily.org/homosexuality/homosexual-activist-admits-true-purpose-of-battle-is-to-destroy-marriage/

And yes, I admit, these articles scare me as well. I feel entrapped.

Why would you assume that she speaks for all gay activists?

Andrew Sullivan essentially invented the idea of gay marriage decades ago, and was derided by other gays for doing so. He did not want to destroy marriage. He believes in marriage and wants gays to participate in it because that will restrain promiscuity and promote healthy, virtuous habits.

I disagree that the word “marriage” can ever rightly be used of a same-sex relationship, but it’s hard to argue with Sullivan’s motivation.

Edwin

 

[edwest2]

Why would you assume that she speaks for all gay activists?

Andrew Sullivan essentially invented the idea of gay marriage decades ago, and was derided by other gays for doing so. He did not want to destroy marriage. He believes in marriage and wants gays to participate in it because that will restrain promiscuity and promote healthy, virtuous habits.

I disagree that the word “marriage” can ever rightly be used of a same-sex relationship, but it’s hard to argue with Sullivan’s motivation.

Edwin

I could provide a list of all sites that promote gay marriage. This is not one isolated incident but part of a promotional network. Redefining marriage, as the US Supreme Court recently did, means that shortly after, a man with two women filed for the ‘right’ to marry both of them. Next up is the “right” to incest. That is going on now. So no, true marriage is the target. The plan is to destroy marriage.

Ed

 

[faustinamary]

I could provide a list of all sites that promote gay marriage. This is not one isolated incident but part of a promotional network. Redefining marriage, as the US Supreme Court recently did, means that shortly after, a man with two women filed for the ‘right’ to marry both of them. Next up is the “right” to incest. That is going on now. So no, true marriage is the target. The plan is to destroy marriage.

Ed

Its the opposite. Anyone who thinks the US Catholic Church is obsessed with homosexuality simply does not understand that it is often societally caused, i.e. though sexual abuse and has negative consequences, i.e. suicide, and thus should not become societally accepted. The church is not obsessed with homosexuality. The NOM and volunteer groups in the church related to this issue are relatively not-existent/weak compared to other issues, the laity and priests often do not support the bible on this teaching, and the political laws are being weakened. One should ask - how can churches in Europe and a few countries in Latin America best be motivated to obey scripture on this teaching?

 

[Thorolfr]

Anyone who thinks the US Catholic Church is obsessed with homosexuality simply does not understand that it is often societally caused, i.e. though sexual abuse

There is no evidence that homosexuality is caused by sexual abuse. As noted by the American Psychiatric Association:

What causes Homosexuality/Heterosexuality/Bisexuality?

No one knows what causes heterosexuality, homosexuality, or bisexuality. Homosexuality was once thought to be the result of troubled family dynamics or faulty psychological development. Those assumptions are now understood to have been based on misinformation and prejudice. Currently there is a renewed interest in searching for biological etiologies for homosexuality. However, to date there are no replicated scientific studies supporting any specific biological etiology for homosexuality. Similarly, no specific psychosocial or family dynamic cause for homosexuality has been identified, including histories of childhood sexual abuse. Sexual abuse does not appear to be more prevalent in children who grow up to identify as gay, lesbian, or bisexual, than in children who identify as heterosexual.

psychiatry.org/lgbt-sexual-orientation

 

[Bradski]

IAit is often societally caused, i.e. though sexual abuse…

Someone has been lying to you.

 

[kozlosap]

There is no evidence that homosexuality is caused by sexual abuse. As noted by the American Psychiatric Association:

psychiatry.org/lgbt-sexual-orientation

 

[Thorolfr]

Here’s an interesting story in today’s Guardian:

In the wake of the US supreme court decision on gay marriage, one might think that Americans now feel comfortable with homosexuality.

I have evidence to the contrary.

When my thriller My Name is N came out this month in the US, it got very positive reviews and even led the book section in Entertainment Weekly. But then the reviews on Amazon starting pouring in:

The main character … gets his kicks lusting at other young male muscular torsos during his time in the Diego Garcia gym. Frankly like the kids in college now with all their ‘cautions’ about ‘sensitive material ahead’ I would have like[d] that caution.

Another, from a former US marine:

I guess I don’t like hidden agendas without disclosure, particularly if is it trying to mainstream and advertise a LGBT lifestyle. At least disclose that information so I can make up my own mind before wasting time and money.

It took me a while to figure out what was actually being said there. These male readers don’t object to a bisexual male thriller hero per se. But they wanted a warning.

[A]s the Amazon reviews show, more than a few American men believe that a gay protagonist belongs on a special gay bookshelf.

It will take more than a supreme court ruling to change their minds.

theguardian.com/books/2015/jul/31/my-name-is-n-bisexual-male-hero-american-reviews

 

[Zoltan_Cobalt]

There is no evidence that homosexuality is caused by sexual abuse. As noted by the American Psychiatric Association:

Well…then it must be a “choice”…right?

 

[Zoltan_Cobalt]

Aw, poor you.

I am stunned…

An actual example of true compassion by a gay man towards a Catholic’s religious beliefs.

:clapping:

 

[faustinamary]

There is no evidence that homosexuality is caused by sexual abuse. As noted by the American Psychiatric Association:

psychiatry.org/lgbt-sexual-orientation

This is a nice website, but its not true. Just search google.scholar.com, and you will find many research studies that show the opposite.

Here’s an example of just one piece of evidence:
Of 327 homosexual and bisexual men participating in an ongoing cohort study pertaining to risk factors for HIV infection who completed a survey regarding history of sexual abuse, 116 (35.5%) reported being sexually abused as children. Those abused were more likely to have more lifetime male partners, to report more childhood stress, to have lied in the past in order to have sex, and to have had unprotected receptive anal intercourse in the past 6 months (odds ratio 2.13; 95% confidence interval 1.15–3.95). Sexual abuse remained a significant predictor of unprotected receptive anal intercourse in a logistic model adjusting for potential confounding variables. Childhood Sexual Abuse Among Homosexual Men. Prevalence and Association with Unsafe Sex. William R. Lenderking PhD1,2, Cheryl Wold MPH4, Kenneth H. Mayer MD5,6, Robert Goldstein MPH5, Elena Losina MS8 and George R. Seage MPH, DSc4,8,9 1997 by the Society of General Internal Medicine. Volume 12, Issue 4, pages 250–253, April 1997

You can even validate yourself by downloading data and doing the analysis yourself because the results are so strong.

 

[Thorolfr]

This is a nice website, but its not true. Just search google.scholar.com, and you will find many research studies that show the opposite.

Here’s an example of just one piece of evidence:
Of 327 homosexual and bisexual men participating in an ongoing cohort study pertaining to risk factors for HIV infection who completed a survey regarding history of sexual abuse, 116 (35.5%) reported being sexually abused as children. Those abused were more likely to have more lifetime male partners, to report more childhood stress, to have lied in the past in order to have sex, and to have had unprotected receptive anal intercourse in the past 6 months (odds ratio 2.13; 95% confidence interval 1.15–3.95). Sexual abuse remained a significant predictor of unprotected receptive anal intercourse in a logistic model adjusting for potential confounding variables. Childhood Sexual Abuse Among Homosexual Men. Prevalence and Association with Unsafe Sex. William R. Lenderking PhD1,2, Cheryl Wold MPH4, Kenneth H. Mayer MD5,6, Robert Goldstein MPH5, Elena Losina MS8 and George R. Seage MPH, DSc4,8,9 1997 by the Society of General Internal Medicine. Volume 12, Issue 4, pages 250–253, April 1997

You can even validate yourself by downloading data and doing the analysis yourself because the results are so strong.

This study does not show that childhood sexual abuse causes homosexuality nor does it even claim to do so. It was studying “risk factors for HIV infection” and claims that “sexual abuse remained a significant predictor of unprotected receptive anal intercourse.” Also, only 35% of this cohort (which is not necessarily representative of all gay men) reported being sexually abused which is a significant number but it also means that about two thirds did not report being sexually abused. In addition to being gay myself, I know lots of gay men and I doubt that very many of them were sexually abused as children. I know that I wasn’t.

 

[faustinamary]

claims that “sexual abuse remained a significant predictor of unprotected receptive anal intercourse.”

And I know people who used to suffer from same-sex attraction and were molested as children, had therapy focused on these issues, and it went away. You can download the data yourself and do your own analysis, and you will find that gay men are much more likely to be sexually abused as children than straight men just like this study says.

The study never said it was the only factor. If you are one of the 65% or so who weren’t sexually abused as children instead of the 35% or so who were, then it is still wrong to deny other people cures or tell them that the science to explain their experience doesn’t exist because you personally did not have that experience (but they did). Sometimes people who aren’t sexually abused have a lot in common with those who are if their parents are neglectful, narcissistic, or emotionally abusive in a similar way so any help given them in recovering should also indirectly help those who are same-sex attracted for other reasons. Not every person with lung cancer smoked, but smokers are much more likely to have lung cancer. However, the link between childhood sexual abuse and homosexuality is actually probably stronger than that between lung cancer and smoking: very preliminary google search suggests that less than 20% of smokers get lung cancer.

 

[Thorolfr]

And I know people who used to suffer from same-sex attraction and were molested as children, had therapy focused on these issues, and it went away. You can download the data yourself and do your own analysis, and you will find that gay men are much more likely to be sexually abused as children than straight men just like this study says.

The study never said it was the only factor. If you are one of the 65% or so who weren’t sexually abused as children instead of the 35% or so who were, then it is still wrong to deny other people cures or tell them that the science to explain their experience doesn’t exist because you personally did not have that experience (but they did). Sometimes people who aren’t sexually abused have a lot in common with those who are if their parents are neglectful, narcissistic, or emotionally abusive in a similar way so any help given them in recovering should also indirectly help those who are same-sex attracted for other reasons. Not every person with lung cancer smoked, but smokers are much more likely to have lung cancer. However, the link between childhood sexual abuse and homosexuality is actually probably stronger than that between lung cancer and smoking: very preliminary google search suggests that less than 20% of smokers get lung cancer.

Actually, the study doesn’t say that childhood sexual abuse is a factor in people becoming homosexual since the purpose of the study is not to study the etiology or cause of homosexuality. The purpose of the study is to study risk factors for HIV infection. And my parents weren’t “neglectful, narcissistic, or emotionally abusive” either.

 

[faustinamary]

Actually, the study doesn’t say that childhood sexual abuse is a factor in people becoming homosexual since the purpose of the study is not to study the etiology or cause of homosexuality. The purpose of the study is to study risk factors for HIV infection. And my parents weren’t “neglectful, narcissistic, or emotionally abusive” either.

It says that “sexual abuse remained a significant predictor of unprotected receptive anal intercourse.” Unprotected receptive anal intercourse = “homosexual” So it does say it is a factor.

Well, do you think that your experiences outweigh the experiences of these 35% of same-sex attracted men (for this study and others) engaging in anal intercourse who self report sexual abuse? Don’t you think scientists should be free to objectively seek truth on this issue?

 

[lileli]

The Church is obsessed with it because many members of our Church are bigots and afraid of those who don’t conform to being “normal”. They take on on the role of God and condemn us, even though we are as natural as sex itself.

 

[Rau]

The Church is obsessed with it because many members of our Church are bigots and afraid of those who don’t conform to being “normal”. They take on on the role of God and condemn us, even though we are as natural as sex itself.

The obsession is not the Church’s. Look around you.

 

[lileli]

The obsession is not the Church’s. Look around you.

Right…

 

[Tantum_ergo]

The Church is obsessed with it because many members of our Church are bigots and afraid of those who don’t conform to being “normal”. They take on on the role of God and condemn us, even though we are as natural as sex itself.

Speaking as a Catholic, I am not ‘afraid’ of a person who identifies himself or herself as heterosexual, homosexual, metrosexual, transsexual, transgender, whatever. Plenty of heterosexual people abuse the sex act too (and God, THROUGH the Church, which is something quite different from the Church claiming to ‘be’ God, has communicated to all humanity the power, the beauty, and the danger of the sexual act when it is abused, in any way, shape or form). You claim it’s ‘natural’. Well, ‘bathroom functions’ are normal and natural too, but if I decided to ‘squat’ in your living room, wouldn’t you be entitled to tell me to ‘go’ in a proper space and that isn’t YOUR living room? What if I decided to ‘squat’ in my OWN living room? Sounds like it would be my own private decision, but if I rented, the landlord would have something to say about it. Well, we all as it were are ‘renters’ in the game of life. We don’t ‘own’ our lives. . .they were given to us without our having any say, and they will be taken away without our say as well. If our ‘landlord’ has some rules about our ‘natural’ functions, we can choose to disregard him (and pay the price, because while we might be able to use our ‘rental space’ as WE choose all our lives, at the end of life we will have to ‘pay up’) because we have ‘free will’. . .or we can choose to obey even if it means we have to abide by something we don’t like which impinges our ‘freedom’.

 

[Corki]

The Church is obsessed with it because many members of our Church are bigots and afraid of those who don’t conform to being “normal”. They take on on the role of God and condemn us, even though we are as natural as sex itself.

The Church does not condemn anyone, but she **does **condemn immoral and sinful behavior whether it comes from something normal (such as anger) or something abnormal (such as homosexuality). There is nothing bigoted about that.

 

[lileli]

The Church does not condemn anyone, but she **does **condemn immoral and sinful behavior whether it comes from something normal (such as anger) or something abnormal (such as homosexuality). There is nothing bigoted about that.

Again nothing abnormal about homosexuality.