Why is the US Catholic church so obsessed with the gay issue?

[lileli]

You believe in the Real Presence - a truly challenging dogma, supported in the Bible (though that’s not the belief of all Christian faiths) and taught by the Catholic Church. In your view, the Church got this right…on the basis that you concur! Other Churches take the Eucharist as symbolic.

But you believe sex acts between persons of the same sex are fine, despite Biblical prohibitions in both old and New Testaments, the absence of ANY favourable mention of such relationships in the Bible, and despite the Church teaching it as wrong for the entire existence of the Church. And you believe the Church got this one wrong…on the basis you hold a different opinion!

In summary, your faith comprises what you find acceptable and/or convenient. The Church is valuable when she agrees with you.

The real presence beliefs harms no one and it does not remove dignity from no one. I use history, faith, science, and yes some tradition in inform my faith. You may find that to be convenient, but I find it to be intellectually honest. Also, stop with the personal attacks please.

 

[lileli]

There is nothing in the bible forbidding a same sex loving monogamous relationship. Again, you have to look at the historical context in which these words were written etc. You may disagree and that is fine but there is good reason why many Christian Churches now fully accept their gay brothers and sisters in Christ.

 

[estesbob]

There is nothing in the bible forbidding a same sex loving monogamous relationship. Again, you have to look at the historical context in which these words were written etc. You may disagree and that is fine but there is good reason why many Christian Churches now fully accept their gay brothers and sisters in Christ.

It would be a pretty inept god that would allow his people to live in error for over 4000 years . The truth didn’t change- however for many of our separated brethren the pressures of the current culture caused them to reject 4000 years of teachings and traditions regarding homosexual behavior.

By the way the Catholic Church fully accepts our homosexual brothers and sisters . The church fully accepts all sinners- if she didn’t she would only have two members Jesus and his mother

 

[lileli]

It would be a pretty inept god that would allow his people to live in error for over 4000 years . The truth didn’t change- however for many of our separated brethren the pressures of the current culture caused them to reject 4000 years of teachings and traditions regarding homosexual behavior.

By the way the Catholic Church fully accepts our homosexual brothers and sisters . The church fully accepts all sinners- if she didn’t she would only have two members Jesus and his mother

A Church of men is a Church of men therefore can be in error. You have your truth and I have mine.

 

[Rau]

The real presence beliefs harms no one

To truly believe it is very challenging, but to claim it is easy, in part because no one is likely to get upset.

and it does not remove dignity from no one.

Nor does the teaching that fornication is wrong, or the teaching that same sex sexual acts are wrong. In fact no teaching strips any person of dignity.

Also, stop with the personal attacks please.

I’ve made no personal attack on you, but I will challenge your arguments.

 

[Rau]

A Church of men is a Church of men therefore can be in error. You have your truth and I have mine.

Has Christ said to you “Those who hear you, hear me”? Unless he did, I wonder the source of “your truth”. We do know that this was the promise given to St Peter when Christ established the Church.

 

[estesbob]

A Church of men is a Church of men therefore can be in error. You have your truth and I have mine.

Which is why we are fortunate that the Catholic Church is not a church of man. You cannot separate Christ from his church-they’re one in the same. Truth is not fungible so your comment that you can have your truth and I can have mine is false. One of us is wrong. So we have to look at what we base the truth upon. I base my truth upon the teachings of the one holy Catholic apostolic Church. Where does your “truth” come from

 

[lileli]

To truly believe it is very challenging, but to claim it is easy, in part because no one is likely to get upset.

Nor does the teaching that fornication is wrong, or the teaching that same sex sexual acts are wrong. In fact no teaching strips any person of dignity.

I’ve made no personal attack on you, but I will challenge your arguments.

Again, perhaps you should talk to the millions of young adults who grew up in Catholic homes and received negative messages about the sex they loved. They are condemned because of who they fall in love with. No, you are completely wrong. It is much easier to accept everything without question. It is much easier not to critically think. In my opinion, you have chosen the intellectually easy way out.

 

[lileli]

Which is why we are fortunate that the Catholic Church is not a church of man. You cannot separate Christ from his church-they’re one in the same. Truth is not fungible so your comment that you can have your truth and I can have mine is false. One of us is wrong. So we have to look at what we base the truth upon. I base my truth upon the teachings of the one holy Catholic apostolic Church. Where does your “truth” come from

Ummm…yea no the Church is a Church of men. Always has been and always will be. If we can’t agree with then you must not study the history of the Church. My truth comes from reason, science, faith, history, and general knowledge. I do not blindly accept what is told to me and I use my own reason and ability to learn in order to discern truth.

 

[Rau]

Again, perhaps you should talk to the millions of young adults who grew up in Catholic homes and received negative messages about the sex they loved. They are condemned because of who they fall in love with. No, you are completely wrong. It is much easier to accept everything without question. It is much easier not to critically think. In my opinion, you have chosen the intellectually easy way out.

No person is condemned. Their acts may be wrong, and those acts are condemned, but not the person. Parents love the wayward child, but know that what they do is wrong.

To parrot a statement as a belief is easy. To conform one’s behaviours is not.

 

[lileli]

No person is condemned. Their acts may be wrong, and those acts are condemned, but not the person. Parents love the wayward child, but know that what they do is wrong.

To parrot a statement as a belief is easy. To conform one’s behaviours is not.

When said behavior is part of the very fiber of that person, it is cruel to ask them to conform especially when their behavior harms no one. You may live a fantasy world where parents don’t kick out their children and abandon them but I have seen that reality.

 

[Rau]

Ummm…yea no the Church is a Church of men. Always has been and always will be. If we can’t agree with then you must not study the history of the Church. My truth comes from reason, science, faith, history, and general knowledge. I do not blindly accept what is told to me and I use my own reason and ability to learn in order to discern truth.

I am curious why you have such confidence in your personal capacity in this regard, and such disdain for the Church’s?

Did Christ give the Church teaching authority?

How did you apply critical thinking, and reason to arrive at a belief in the Real Presence?

 

[estesbob]

Ummm…yea no the Church is a Church of men. Always has been and always will be. If we can’t agree with then you must not study the history of the Church. My truth comes from reason, science, faith, history, and general knowledge. I do not blindly accept what is told to me and I use my own reason and ability to learn in order to discern truth.

So basically you’re saying we create our own truth. You have created a god in your own image and likeness who , which is no surprise, just happens to agree with everything you believe in.

I really don’t like to get into these my resume is bigger than your resume arguments but I have minor in theology and studied in the Seminary for four years… I don’t think I’m deficient
In “studying” the history of the church.

By the way welcome to Catholic answer forums. I see you list yourself as a “recovering Catholic” hopefully your time here will lead you back to the church

 

[estesbob]

When said behavior is part of the very fiber of that person, it is cruel to ask them to conform especially when their behavior harms no one. You may live a fantasy world where parents don’t kick out their children and abandon them but I have seen that reality.

I didn’t kick my daughter out. Nor did my brother kick his son out. In fact I do not know a single person who kicked their child out because they were homosexual.

But let’s take your supposition as truth . How does that in anyway prove that homosexual behavior is not sin?

 

[lileli]

I am curious why you have such confidence in your personal capacity in this regard, and such disdain for the Church’s?

Did Christ give the Church teaching authority?

How did you apply critical thinking, and reason to arrive at a belief in the Real Presence?

There are some things I have FAITH in…faith as in I don’t need evidence to believe it.Having such unity with Christ is a beautiful and uplifting idea. The Church has a lot of other “demands” it must consider when preaching and teaching. I have no such restrictions. Christ gave very little guidance to the Church and as such we have many different interpretations of Christ and his message. I am not starting my own Church nor am I saying that the Catholic Church is useless. The Church is not God and it is run by imperfect men. I believe that our focus should be on positive actions and looking at how an action harms someone else or oneself.

 

[Rau]

When said behavior is part of the very fiber of that person, it is cruel to ask them to conform especially when their behavior harms no one. You may live a fantasy world where parents don’t kick out their children and abandon them but I have seen that reality.

The desire may be deep, but the acts have to be chosen. I share your compassion for the person afflicted with SSA. But the circumstance of desiring something, however much, is not a basis upon which to say the desired acts are good, or that 2 men can marry, or that a same sex couple ought to be able to procure a baby (eg by surrogacy which is increasingly popular). Such reasoning leads to dark places.

 

[Rau]

There are some things I have FAITH in…faith as in I don’t need evidence to believe it.Having such unity with Christ is a beautiful and uplifting idea. The Church has a lot of other “demands” it must consider when preaching and teaching. I have no such restrictions. Christ gave very little guidance to the Church and as such we have many different interpretations of Christ and his message. I am not starting my own Church nor am I saying that the Catholic Church is useless. The Church is not God and it is run by imperfect men. I believe that our focus should be on positive actions and looking at how an action harms someone else or oneself.

We are back to you choosing to believe one thing only because it appeals to you and rejecting another because it does not.

 

[estesbob]

There are some things I have FAITH in…faith as in I don’t need evidence to believe it.Having such unity with Christ is a beautiful and uplifting idea. The Church has a lot of other “demands” it must consider when preaching and teaching. I have no such restrictions. Christ gave very little guidance to the Church and as such we have many different interpretations of Christ and his message. I am not starting my own Church nor am I saying that the Catholic Church is useless. The Church is not God and it is run by imperfect men. I believe that our focus should be on positive actions and looking at how an action harms someone else or oneself.

Sure are you a universalist?

 

[lileli]

We are back to you choosing to believe one thing only because it appeals to you and rejecting another because it does not.

And you are back blindly following orders without looking at the whole spectrum of human knowledge.

 

[pianistclare]

It would be a pretty inept god that would allow his people to live in error for over 4000 years . The truth didn’t change- however for many of our separated brethren the pressures of the current culture caused them to reject 4000 years of teachings and traditions regarding homosexual behavior.

By the way the Catholic Church fully accepts our homosexual brothers and sisters . The church fully accepts all sinners- if she didn’t she would only have two members Jesus and his mother

Exactly.
The Church is not obsessed with this topic inasmuch as it’s a rampant misunderstanding of what the Church teaches about the dignity of every person.
Rather…the pro-gay marriage people are indeed obsessed with obliterating any notion that this is a moral issue, and obliterating Catholic teaching from the thinking of young people everywhere. And in that respect, their obsession is literally winning over millions.