Why is the US Catholic church so obsessed with the gay issue?

[estesbob]

None of which has anything whatsoever to do with whether or not discrimination and violence against LGBT people in sinful.

I don’t see where anyone asserted it was?

 

[Sarah_B_Good]

I don’t see where anyone asserted it was?

I don’t see where anyone took issue with your statement many posts ago that:

Whether homosexuals have been discriminated against, beaten, murdered etc. has no bearing whatsoever on the morality of homosexual behavior. Sinful behavior against those against those promoting sinful behavior does not mitigate either parties sin.

to which my very first words in response were: “I agree”

So I’m rather confused as to your need to restate a point to which I already agreed, but if your point is worth restating, perhaps mine is too.

 

[1990Domer]

The Church is obsessed with it because many members of our Church are bigots and afraid of those who don’t conform to being “normal”. They take on on the role of God and condemn us, even though we are as natural as sex itself.

That is so not true. The RCC only asks that you live a chaste life.

 

[Zoltan_Cobalt]

If by “being homosexual” you mean “experiencing SSA”, then your friend argues nonsense. The Church is also clear on the distinction between SSA and acts.

Some people read the word “homosexual” to mean the person embraces the acts, as though to have the desire naturally means it is indulged.

I believe what your friend argues is not commonly believed, though the ambiguity of use of the word “homosexual” creates scope for confusion.

(Rau, I may have asked you this question before. If I did disregard this post and I will find your answer.)

Does a homosexual, with only desire or attraction, become more of a homosexual upon acting on the desire/attraction? Or is that person a heterosexual with odd desires and attractions…who becomes a homosexual upon indulging?

(Someone gave me a good answer, I thought it was you, but I can’t find it)

 

[lileli]

(Rau, I may have asked you this question before. If I did disregard this post and I will find your answer.)

Does a homosexual, with only desire or attraction, become more of a homosexual upon acting on the desire/attraction? Or is that person a heterosexual with odd desires and attractions…who becomes a homosexual upon indulging?

(Someone gave me a good answer, I thought it was you, but I can’t find it)

I know you didn’t ask me but perhaps I can help. Anyone of sexual orientation can engage in any sort of sexual behavior. At some point, the physical actions would lead to the sexual act to be complete no matter how “repulsive” they may be to that person of that sexual orientation. Your sexual orientation is with which sex do you feel naturally complete and whole during sexual actions. A straight person can do gay acts for the rest of their life and no matter how good the act is they will always be incomplete, say goes for the homosexual person. My paragraph applies to full fledged homosexuals and heterosexuals. The show my Mormon husband is gay actually was a good example of men living contrary to their sexual orientation. I don’t think one becomes more of anything. they just are what they are.

 

[Thorolfr]

(Rau, I may have asked you this question before. If I did disregard this post and I will find your answer.)

Does a homosexual, with only desire or attraction, become more of a homosexual upon acting on the desire/attraction? Or is that person a heterosexual with odd desires and attractions…who becomes a homosexual upon indulging?

(Someone gave me a good answer, I thought it was you, but I can’t find it)

The word “heterosexual” is commonly defined by sexual attraction, not by sexual actions. For example:

Oxford English Dictionary: (Of a person)** sexually attracted **to people of the opposite sex; Involving or characterized by sexual attraction between people of the opposite sex.

Merriam-Webster: : sexually attracted to people of the opposite sex; based on sexual attraction to people of the opposite sex

So a person who is not sexually attracted to the opposite sex cannot be called a heterosexual except in your own rather perverse and unique definition. Now you could say that for you, the word “white” defines something that is black or that the word “blue” defines something that is red, but no one is going to understand what you’re talking about.

 

[SuperLuigi]

I agree, but I would ask where is the condemnation of the sinful behavior of those who have engaged in discrimination and violence against gay people? I was born in Ireland where the gay rights movement started in the early 80s. In large part, it stemmed from the murder of a gay man by a group of thugs who admitted to targeting gay men for bashing. They killed a man and as punishment they received commuted sentences, served absolutely no time in prison and were practically praised by the judge who saw them as “cleaning up the area” and stated that what they did “could never be considered murder.”

That’s what a gay man’s life was worth in Ireland in the early 80s…NOTHING. And who stood up in protest to this callous disregard for a human life? The Catholic Church? Hardly. It was the gay community that began to take a stand and fight for their rights.

Thankfully, society has changed a great a deal since those times, but where would we be today if we had not been pushed and confronted by the gay community for greater tolerance and acceptance?

Actually, it’s mostly straights who are pushing the gay “marriage” agenda.

I have warned and will continue to warn GLBTQ persons about the danger of those activists who say they “care” so much.

But the reality is a lot of support for so-called gay “marriage” comes about because it is a very easy decision.

Should sharia law ever become cool and in, I suspect support for so-called gay “marriage” would drop like a rock, and I suspect many supporters would change their minds quickly.

 

[SuperLuigi]

I know you didn’t ask me but perhaps I can help. Anyone of sexual orientation can engage in any sort of sexual behavior. At some point, the physical actions would lead to the sexual act to be complete no matter how “repulsive” they may be to that person of that sexual orientation. Your sexual orientation is with which sex do you feel naturally complete and whole during sexual actions. A straight person can do gay acts for the rest of their life and no matter how good the act is they will always be incomplete, say goes for the homosexual person. My paragraph applies to full fledged homosexuals and heterosexuals. The show my Mormon husband is gay actually was a good example of men living contrary to their sexual orientation. I don’t think one becomes more of anything. they just are what they are.

Then why do gay and lesbian teens have higher teenage pregnancy rates than straight teens?

 

[SuperLuigi]

You are dismissing the vast numbers that still occur in this country. Just a few days ago two former west point grads were assaulted in NYC, of all places, for being gay! Thankfully they knew how to defend themselves but others aren’t so lucky…

I fail to see how being a victim of an alledged crime entitles one to government subsidization of said victim’s sex life.

Also:

Lesbian Gangs In TN Raping Girls

beforeitsnews.com/strange/2011/06/lesbian-gangs-in-tn-raping-girls-727848.html

 

[Rau]

…I am simply pointing out that this societal disapproval supports an environment in which discrimination, prejudice and violence are inevitable. People who are marginalized are always mistreated in the end.

So what follows from that? - behaviour held out as reasonable must be accepted as such? SSM had to be accepted? Now you acknowledge there are good willed people opposing SSM (like your gran?) but make them complicit in the wrongs of the extreme.

 

[Rau]

(Rau, I may have asked you this question before. If I did disregard this post and I will find your answer.)

Does a homosexual, with only desire or attraction, become more of a homosexual upon acting on the desire/attraction? Or is that person a heterosexual with odd desires and attractions…who becomes a homosexual upon indulging?

(Someone gave me a good answer, I thought it was you, but I can’t find it)

Wasn’t me. A person with only desire or attraction has committed no sin and we are entitled to conclude he intends to remain chaste until such times as he declares otherwise.

 

[SuperLuigi]

So what follows from that? - behaviour held out as reasonable must be accepted as such? SSM had to be accepted? Now you acknowledge there are good willed people opposing SSM (like your gran?) but make them complicit in the wrongs of the extreme.

It’s always funny that those who defend so-called gay “marriage” have to resort to all of these external issues to support their cause instead of the (if there were any) merits of so-called gay “marriage” itself.

If gay and straight relationships are truly “equal”, why do they need all of this attention and support?

I don’t recall Christian & Catholic marriages ever needing that…

 

[lileli]

I fail to see how being a victim of an alledged crime entitles one to government subsidization of said victim’s sex life.

Also:

Lesbian Gangs In TN Raping Girls

beforeitsnews.com/strange/2011/06/lesbian-gangs-in-tn-raping-girls-727848.html

Yes gay people can be criminals. The point I was making is that hate crimes still do happen and those who are against the “homosexual” lifestyle need to be careful not to incite said violence. President Obama does a wonderful job of fighting terrorism without inciting hate towards muslims.

 

[SuperLuigi]

lileli;13197011]Yes gay people can be criminals. The point I was making is that hate crimes still do happen and those who are against the “homosexual” lifestyle need to be careful not to incite said violence.

“So if there are hate crimes, are there also love crimes”? --Jason Lewis.

By that standard, if a homosexual activist attacked a person just for being straight, would that be a hate crime? If not, the system is not equal.

President Obama does a wonderful job of fighting terrorism without inciting hate towards muslims.

Although it proves an earlier point I just made-----where did this come from?

This nothing to do with the thread.

Please post on topic.

 

[lileli]

“So if there are hate crimes, are there also love crimes”? --Jason Lewis.

By that standard, if a homosexual activist attacked a person just for being straight, would that be a hate crime? If not, the system is not equal.

Although it proves an earlier point I just made-----where did this come from?

This nothing to do with the thread.

Please post on topic.

Superluigi,

I am not going to go into why hate crimes etc. Clearly, you are against them and so be it. I wish things were “equal” but we live in a very unequal society where being a white Christian male is still the preferred position. Maybe you disagree but there is tons of data proving the inherent disparities between minorities in relation to those in the majority.

 

[lileli]

Then why do gay and lesbian teens have higher teenage pregnancy rates than straight teens?

Please refer to my earlier post.

 

[Zoltan_Cobalt]

Wasn’t me.

Darn!

A person with only desire or attraction has committed no sin and we are entitled to conclude he intends to remain chaste until such times as he declares otherwise

.

I understand that from a Catholic perspective but…is the person with only desire actually a homosexual?

 

[Rau]

Yes gay people can be criminals. The point I was making is that hate crimes still do happen and those who are against the “homosexual” lifestyle need to be careful not to incite said violence. President Obama does a wonderful job of fighting terrorism without inciting hate towards muslims.

How can believing what the Catholic Church teaches - which includes eschewing unjust discrimination - ever be associated, even loosely, with inciting violence. Those who incite violence are acting out of something far different than the Truth. You should direct your remarks to gangs and thugs.

 

[SuperLuigi]

Superluigi,

I am not going to go into why hate crimes etc. Clearly, you are against them and so be it. I wish things were “equal” but we live in a very unequal society where being a white Christian male is still the preferred position. Maybe you disagree but there is tons of data proving the inherent disparities between minorities in relation to those in the majority.

White, straight Christian males are the real victims in many cases.

 

[Zoltan_Cobalt]

I know you didn’t ask me but perhaps I can help. Anyone of sexual orientation can engage in any sort of sexual behavior. At some point, the physical actions would lead to the sexual act to be complete no matter how “repulsive” they may be to that person of that sexual orientation. Your sexual orientation is with which sex do you feel naturally complete and whole during sexual actions. A straight person can do gay acts for the rest of their life and no matter how good the act is they will always be incomplete, say goes for the homosexual person. My paragraph applies to full fledged homosexuals and heterosexuals. The show my Mormon husband is gay actually was a good example of men living contrary to their sexual orientation. I don’t think one becomes more of anything. they just are what they are.

Thanks for jumping in and thanks for the (name removed by moderator)ut.

Let me rephrase my question.

When does a person become a homosexual? When he/she experiences a SSA or when he/she actually engages in homosexual activity?