Why is the US Catholic church so obsessed with the gay issue?

[DCNBILL]

Sigh the concept of family always excluded minorities and those who were not seemingly perfect. I wish that all popes reform the Church and transform it to a Church that is inclusive and uplifting for all

If you have never read a Papal Encyclical, here is some reading for you to do. This is just the more recent stuff, there is plenty more going back over 100 years. This will inform you of what the popes really think of justice, for all.

Caritas in Veritate
(Benedict XVI - June 29, 2009)

Centesimus Annus
(John Paul II- May 1, 1991)

Sollicitudo Rei Socialis
(John Paul II- December 30, 1987)

Laborem Exercens
(John Paul II- September 14, 1981)

 

[estesbob]

Sigh the concept of family always excluded minorities and those who were not seemingly perfect. I wish that all popes reform the Church and transform it to a Church that is inclusive and uplifting for all

When has the Church’s teachings on family ever excluded minorities?

What does the Church need to do to be “inclusive” I am not aware of anyone who is not welcome in the Church.

 

[estesbob]

If you have never read a Papal Encyclical, here is some reading for you to do. This is just the more recent stuff, there is plenty more going back over 100 years. This will inform you of what the popes really think of justice, for all.

Caritas in Veritate
(Benedict XVI - June 29, 2009)

Centesimus Annus
(John Paul II- May 1, 1991)

Sollicitudo Rei Socialis
(John Paul II- December 30, 1987)

Laborem Exercens
(John Paul II- September 14, 1981)

I would also recommend St John Paul IIs theology of the Body

sjcursillo.org/theology%20of%20the%20body.pdf

 

[edwest2]

A reminder about why a Dictatorship of Relativism exists. Instead of the truth being the truth, we see a rise in coercive thought.

William F. Buckley — ‘Liberals claim to want to give a hearing to other views, but then are shocked and offended to discover that there are other views.’

So real truth is replaced by something man-made.

Ed

 

[InSearchofGrace]

Sigh the concept of family always excluded minorities and those who were not seemingly perfect. I wish that all popes reform the Church and transform it to a Church that is inclusive and uplifting all.

Take a look back, and you don’t have to go far back to history. Do some research.

The Church has been inclusive of minorities and uplifting of all people. Did you not know that priests and nuns marched with Martin Luther King? When AIDS exploded in the early 80’s with young gay men dropping like flies, did you not know it was the Catholic Church run St. Vincent de Paul Hospital that was ground zero in the caring for the sick and dying from the “new” disease that sent the country into panic? Do you consider that Catholic Charities, as had been along until the relatively recent legal gay “rights” to marriage and adoption, was placing orphans or children rendered orphans with Catholic and non-Catholic families? For the common good, the state was happy for the social service the CC was doing in exchange for tax benefits or relief. Now, the state would rather please a certain segment of the population.
,

 

[edwest2]

Take a look back, and you don’t have to go far back to history. Do some research.

The Church has been inclusive of minorities and uplifting of all people. Did you not know that priests and nuns marched with Martin Luther King? When AIDS exploded in the early 80’s with young gay men dropping like flies, did you not know it was the Catholic Church run St. Vincent de Paul Hospital that was ground zero in the caring for the sick and dying from the “new” disease that sent the country into panic? Do you consider that Catholic Charities, as had been along until the relatively recent legal gay “rights” to marriage and adoption, was placing orphans or children rendered orphans with Catholic and non-Catholic families? For the common good, the state was happy for the social service the CC was doing in exchange for tax benefits or relief. Now, the state would rather please a certain segment of the population.
,

Yes, state coercion instead of cooperation was one goal. I wish posters would be more clear about what they desire. Is it: My husband and I want to be accepted by the Church? Or, my husband and adopted family want to be accepted by the Church? All are welcome. It’s always been the case. But the Church is a hospital for sinners. No one is going to ask about your sexual orientation when you walk in. God loves you. And we are all called to conversion.

A sinner,

Ed

 

[Sarah_B_Good]

So what follows from that? - behaviour held out as reasonable must be accepted as such? SSM had to be accepted? Now you acknowledge there are good willed people opposing SSM (like your gran?) but make them complicit in the wrongs of the extreme.

Really? It surprises you that I don’t judge the good will of people based upon their stance on SSM? I must either acknowledge that my grandmother is completely right about SSM or accuse her of being somehow duplicitous and sinister? And you accuse me of seeing only two camps on this issue!!!

And why the connection back to SSM? The treatment of gay people by our society and by the Church is not a moral issue that deserves consideration in its own right? The Church is right about the issue of SSM, therefore we can assume it has never mistreated or wronged gay people in any way?

What about my gay friends who feel terribly hurt and mistreated by the Church? What would you have me say to them?

“Nope. The Church is right about SSM, therefore your accusations have absolutely no validity. Go away. You are obviously lying, only trying to badmouth the Church and just want the Church to approve of your sinful behavior.” All things they have actually been told.

 

[edwest2]

Really? It surprises you that I don’t judge the good will of people based upon their stance on SSM? I must either acknowledge that my grandmother is completely right about SSM or accuse her of being somehow duplicitous and sinister? And you accuse me of seeing only two camps on this issue!!!

And why the connection back to SSM? The treatment of gay people by our society and by the Church is not a moral issue that deserves consideration in its own right? The Church is right about the issue of SSM, therefore we can assume it has never mistreated or wronged gay people in any way?

What about my gay friends who feel terribly hurt and mistreated by the Church? What would you have me say to them?

“Nope. The Church is right about SSM, therefore your accusations have absolutely no validity. Go away. You are obviously lying, only trying to badmouth the Church and just want the Church to approve of your sinful behavior.” All things they have actually been told.

On the other hand, there are those in the LGBT community who have decided the Church is wrong about SSM - end of discussion.

How has the Church mistreated any gay people (aside from the issue of SSM)? I went to Church with a converted bisexual young lady. I’m sure no one noticed.

Ed

 

[lileli]

On the other hand, there are those in the LGBT community who have decided the Church is wrong about SSM - end of discussion.

How has the Church mistreated any gay people (aside from the issue of SSM)? I went to Church with a converted bisexual young lady. I’m sure no one noticed.

Ed

How the Church has mistreated gays? Please read the velvet rage or watch the movie Prayers for Bobby.

 

[Rau]

How the Church has mistreated gays? Please read the velvet rage or watch the movie Prayers for Bobby.

Or you could just tell us?

 

[Tantum_ergo]

How the Church has mistreated gays? Please read the velvet rage or watch the movie Prayers for Bobby.

So instead of you telling us what the book is about --and um, the book only mentions religion twice --the author grew up in a fundamentalist Christian household, and one of the subjects of the book is a Catholic priest questioning his vocation --you tell us to read it to 'find out how the Church has mistreated gays?" Excuse me? That’s like telling somebody to read Pride and Prejudice to find out how the Church mistreated women! (In case it’s not obvious, the Church didn’t mistreat women, so trying to read that book to prove it would be a total waste of time of course.)

And “Prayers for Bobby” was a Lifetime TV movie from 2009 in which the title character’s mother was from a strict PRESBYTERIAN Church.

 

[lileli]

So instead of you telling us what the book is about --and um, the book only mentions religion twice --the author grew up in a fundamentalist Christian household, and one of the subjects of the book is a Catholic priest questioning his vocation --you tell us to read it to 'find out how the Church has mistreated gays?" Excuse me? That’s like telling somebody to read Pride and Prejudice to find out how the Church mistreated women! (In case it’s not obvious, the Church didn’t mistreat women, so trying to read that book to prove it would be a total waste of time of course.)

And “Prayers for Bobby” was a Lifetime TV movie from 2009 in which the title character’s mother was from a strict PRESBYTERIAN Church.

It’s called making connections. Would you like to interview catholics so grew up as gay in the church? I can arrange that for you. Seriously are guys denying how negative messages from the Church could harm gay children? Hearing that if you act upon your loving feelings you are damn ed is harmful.

 

[Rau]

It’s called making connections. Would you like to interview catholics so grew up as gay in the church? I can arrange that for you. Seriously are guys denying how negative messages from the Church could harm gay children? Hearing that if you act upon your loving feelings you are damn ed is harmful.

Acting out of love is always a good motivation. What you do however is a distinct question. Having desires for certain kinds of acts does not itself make those acts good.

 

[Corki]

It’s called making connections. Would you like to interview catholics so grew up as gay in the church? I can arrange that for you. Seriously are guys denying how negative messages from the Church could harm gay children? Hearing that if you act upon your loving feelings you are damn ed is harmful.

As a Catholic, the message that marriage and the sexual connection that comes with it, was designed by God as something shared by a man and a woman is not a “negative message” but a positive one. Saying that acting on sexual inclination is sinful is no more harmful that saying that the desire to act out on angry inclinations is sinful or that it is sinful to take whatever you desire.

I forget who said it but it is very true, whenever someone points out all the “no” messages in Church teaching, they are missing that all of those "no"s point to a greater “yes”. No to extramarital sex, yes to life-affirming life-long marriage. No to acting on disordered inclinations, yes to building families where children can grow up with mothers and fathers.

 

[estesbob]

It’s called making connections. Would you like to interview catholics so grew up as gay in the church? I can arrange that for you. Seriously are guys denying how negative messages from the Church could harm gay children? Hearing that if you act upon your loving feelings you are damn ed is harmful.

Do you really think there are not those of us who know children who grew up homosexual in the church? I know of quite a few and not one of them had experiences that we see bandied about in agenda driven books and movies .

 

[1990Domer]

How the Church has mistreated gays? Please read the velvet rage or watch the movie Prayers for Bobby.

Lileli,

Is there another resource or resources you can reference? I am worried that you are steering people to this particular book because it touches on all the talking points you mentioned here.

I do seriously feel for your anger. I have my own because of how a Catholic school bullied my Aspergers child. And trust me, there is no discussion in my Archdiocese on ministering to kids on the autism spectrum. This despite the fact that it is the fastest growing developmental disability in children.

I also want to tell you why I understand. A close relative is openly SSA. He has had two (what we hoped were) forever partners. He cheated on both and now has a third partner. He was Catholic but now hates the church. He caused friction in our family because we were asked to choose between accepting all of his “gayness” or living the message of the Catholic Church. We chose the latter. I really don’t know what the consequences are after I die. But, I do know I want to see Heaven. I have faith that the Roman Catholic Church, founded by Jesus himself, gives me the best path to Heaven. I may be wrong or they may be wrong, but I do not want to take any chances. I only have one chance on this Earth.

I have seen the suffering of people who don’t fit society’s norms. Yes, it stinks. However, if you offer your suffering to Christ, He will walk with you to lighten your load. I am not saying that things are going to get better. But, you will receive graces that can help you bear from cross.

I am praying for you.

 

[1990Domer]

Pardon, I should have said bear your cross.

And I want to make one thing known. We were never unkind to our family member with SSA. We merely asked that we agree to disagree when we knew that he was not interested in Church teachings. However, we were mocked by him and other family members as being too Catholic, holier than thou, and poor Christians. This wounded us deeply. So, honestly, the street has really run both ways for us.

I am going to leave this topic because I have been given and blessed with the enormous task of talking to multiple religious education teachers about tolerance of those with invisible disabilities. Perhaps one may consider it am a to-bullying talk. But if you can spare some prayers for me, I would appreciate it.

God bless.

 

[lileli]

Pardon, I should have said bear your cross.

And I want to make one thing known. We were never unkind to our family member with SSA. We merely asked that we agree to disagree when we knew that he was not interested in Church teachings. However, we were mocked by him and other family members as being too Catholic, holier than thou, and poor Christians. This wounded us deeply. So, honestly, the street has really run both ways for us.

I am going to leave this topic because I have been given and blessed with the enormous task of talking to multiple religious education teachers about tolerance of those with invisible disabilities. Perhaps one may consider it am a to-bullying talk. But if you can spare some prayers for me, I would appreciate it.

God bless.

Will do, and thank you for your words. I understand the Church’s stance but I suppose I am more upset at individuals in the Church who have used said stance to be abusive. The Church says to have compassion and too many have not received it, even those who are trying to live a chaste life! I know this is only my personal experience but I just don’t want people to think that it doesn’t happen. I am praying for you as well and I appreciate the prayers!

 

[1990Domer]

Will do, and thank you for your words. I understand the Church’s stance but I suppose I am more upset at individuals in the Church who have used said stance to be abusive. The Church says to have compassion and too many have not received it, even those who are trying to live a chaste life! I know this is only my personal experience but I just don’t want people to think that it doesn’t happen. I am praying for you as well and I appreciate the prayers!

My friend, I know it happens and it is wrong. I try to treat everyone with compassion, as I would want the same for my son. I and my son have also been “kicked out” of church services for his behavior. Then there is the bullying, and I won’t get into that.

My goal, plain and simple, is to show everyone Christian love and respect. I may gently encourage those to consider the Catholic teachings, but I will not demean. Likewise, I hope people will return the respect.

 

[Thorolfr]

I have seen the suffering of people who don’t fit society’s norms. Yes, it stinks. However, if you offer your suffering to Christ, He will walk with you to lighten your load. I am not saying that things are going to get better. But, you will receive graces that can help you bear from cross.

One of the things that is different for a lot of people with same-sex attraction from people with other conditions is that the burden of being different is often born by them in secret and in shame.

That was certainly the case for me from about the time I was 10 or 11 until I came out when I was 21. And for those who talk about how the Church welcomes everyone, it does not feel very welcoming or loving to have to carry a secret around that an important part of yourself is not only considered defective but is, as the “Letter to the Bishops of the Catholic Church on the Pastoral Care of Homosexual Persons” states, “a tendency ordered toward an intrinsic moral evil.”

As someone who grew up Baptist, I didn’t receive this message in exactly the same language, of course, but those of us who are gay received the message that what seems to be a very basic part of who we are is evil and an abomination. Young people with other conditions that make them different can usually rely on the love and support of their parents or other family members even if they feel rejected by society, but for many LGBT people, there is also a very real fear of rejection by parents or family members if they find out. In my case, I was rejected by a close family member that I had been very close to growing up. We’ve barely talked to each other in more than 30 years.