Why is the US Catholic church so obsessed with the gay issue?

[Thorolfr]

It’s worse than that! 100% of Catholics are sinners!

As Lutherans say, we are all both saint and sinner at the same time (simul justus et peccator). ELCA pastor Nadia Bolz-Weber’s church in Denver is called House for All Saints and Sinners.

 

[Lucretius]

“98 percent of American Catholic women have used contraception in their lifetimes.”

Let me make some corrections:

"98 percent of those American women, who answered that survey and self identify as Catholic, have used contraception in their lifetimes.”

I think this is all the study reveals. I have to go through the study though for the details, so this statement might not be as accurate as it could be. It was made at a glance, with just the information you have given me.

I underlined self identify because the survey leaves the defining of “Catholic” to the person surveyed, which alone has me doubt much of its authenticity. To put it another way, the survey doesn’t have a definition of Catholic, other than “those who claim to be so,” which doesn’t give me any useful information at all.

“Who answered the survey” is important to, because I would get much different results if I surveyed in the streets of San Fransicso, CA than if I surveyed in a convent near Steubenville, OH, you know?

Christi pax,

Lucretius

 

[corefaith]

The U.S. is obsessed with sexual issues. Meanwhile many other important social and moral issues are ignored.

 

[estesbob]

From the same link:

”…it was based on a question that asked self-identified Catholic women who have had sex if they have ever used one of 12 methods of birth control. Jones, in an interview, said the women were asked to answer “yes” or “no” whether they had used each of the different forms; only two percent had said they had used only natural family planning.
In other words, a woman may have sex only once, or she may have had a partner who only used a condom once, and then she would be placed in the 98 percent category.”

Whichever way you want to look at this, however you want to present the results of the survey, whatever type of spin you want to put on this, the answer is there in black and white. To repeat:

Ninety eight percent of all self-identified Catholic women surveyed said that they had used artificial contraception at some time. The survey doesn’t say that 98% of Catholic women use contraception on a regular basis. It doesn’t say that 98% of Catholic women agree that it is morally acceptable. It doesn’t say anything other than 98% of Catholic women have used artificial contraception at some time.

This statement is correct:

“98 percent of American Catholic women have used contraception in their lifetimes.”

If it incorrect, then please point out what part of that statement is wrong.

Why does it matter?

 

[Bradski]

Why does it matter?

Are you suggesting, by asking that, that it doesn’t?

 

[Contarini]

What makes one a conservative Christian? Is it to believe that sex is only right inside marriage? On another thread, those believing this were labelled “ultra conservative” Catholics

“Conservative” is a relative term, as I’m using it. It is shorthand for “people more inclined to hold to more traditional views and/or people who hold up stricter standards to which they expect their communities to adhere.”

It isn’t pejorative in the least, as I use it. I am conservative by some standards and on some issues, and not by others on others. But generally speaking I’m happy when I can describe myself as “conservative.”

Edwin

 

[housedude]

Several Catholic organizations in the US seem to be uncomfortably and awkwardly preoccupied with gay issues. Catholic Answers Live, a radio show I love, sometimes has specific shows dedicated to same-sex marriage or homosexuality. I just switched on EWTN on my TV and the show was talking about the “militant homosexual agenda.” Catholic bloggers and articles are always dedicating topics on this issue; everytime I go to NewAdvent.org, there is a good chance I’ll see a highlighted article casting the issue in a severe light.

My question is, what is this emphasis on this issue meant to achieve? Is it supposed to help those gay persons who are already struggling to find a place in the Church? Is it supposed to convince the “militant homosexual” activists? Is it supposed to reach out to those in the Church and the world who disagree with church teaching and accept homosexual relationships? Or is it supposed to comfort those who already agree with church teaching?

Maybe I am just sensitive. But I do not see the point with this over-emphasis. I could see how such a preoccupation would turn away those from the Church, as it is making me really disappointed with the USA church’s outreach to those on the fringes.

Maybe the radio shows are talking about it more because we need to hear it. Maybe there are people who care enough (love enough) to share the truth with those that are confused about what real love is. Maybe there are people who know that they must speak the truth because the government doesn’t have the guts to tell the truth. Maybe people actually care about others in error and want to share the Truth.

 

[catholic1seeks]

Maybe the radio shows are talking about it more because we need to hear it. Maybe there are people who care enough (love enough) to share the truth with those that are confused about what real love is. Maybe there are people who know that they must speak the truth because the government doesn’t have the guts to tell the truth. Maybe people actually care about others in error and want to share the Truth.

Yes, maybe

I don’t buy it.

 

[DanNixon]

If I’m perfectly honest, in the UK - the Catholic Church doesn’t agree with gay marriage, but accepts it. It understands that people are different. I know a great number of gay men and women who have been accepted into our church and play an active role - being prominent figures on the “church scene”, with running confirmation days and informal and formal retreats - would you see this in America?

 

[Rau]

If I’m perfectly honest, in the UK - the Catholic Church doesn’t agree with gay marriage, but accepts it. It understands that people are different. I know a great number of gay men and women who have been accepted into our church and play an active role - being prominent figures on the “church scene”, with running confirmation days and informal and formal retreats - would you see this in America?

What do you mean by “Gay men and women”? if you mean persons who personally embrace a sexual relationship with a person of the same sex, then it is incomprehensible that they are asked to provide a leadership role in the Church while openly living behavior contrary to what the Church Teaches. Perhaps you could elaborate.

 

[Rau]

This reminds me of a call received by a high Church official by talk show host, Larry King. Mr. King asked his Catholic friend, “Why is the Church so obsessed about sex?” To which he got the reply, “Larry, you are the one calling me.”

So-called Gay Marriage was not even on the radar of most Americans not that long ago. It was a non-issue, but I watched as the issue changed. First, it was, “Leave us alone.” which was fine. Another message was, “Stay out of my bedroom.” which was also fine. Everyone’s privacy was respected. In the 1970s and early 1980s, I worked at a major hospital with LGBT individuals. We did our jobs. We got along. I did not think for one second what they did after work. One person decided to have “Sexual reassignment surgery” as it was called at the time. She now appeared as a he and returned to work. There was no outcry. Or protests.

Then, LGBT activists decided to abandon privacy. They would become “out and proud” and begin a campaign to demonize the family and the Church. The Church, in particular, was wrong about its constant teaching regarding homosexual behavior to the point where certain things said in Church, as they’ve long been said, was eventually labeled “hate speech.” The public was subjected to a conditioning campaign that relied primarily on emotion and obfuscation. I remember billboards showing two gay men that encouraged a vote in support of same-sex marriage in my state. When it was voted down, a letter appeared in a major local paper calling my state: “The great hate state.” The newspaper later warned of a ‘brain drain’ as some homosexual couples threatened to leave to go to a “gay friendly” state.

The campaign was well orchestrated and conveyed by a mostly compliant media, that later included statements from certain corporate executives and politicians. After every defeat in the early days of the campaign, a lack of enough money and personnel was listed as the culprits. This escalated in one state where pro-LGBT persons went door to door to convince the average person. The strategy then shifted to convincing judges and even the President who “evolved” on the issue of ‘gay marriage’ and was immediately praised and was given additional support, which included money.

It was easier to convince a handful of influential people than millions of average people. I was sitting in my doctor’s office when an ‘out’ celebrity kept telling viewers to “stop being homophobic.” Now, how can one person demonize every total stranger watching that he or she should stop a behavior or mindset that he could not know they had?

Then, they started confusing little kids in public schools with storybooks that advocated gay marriage, like King and King. One father who learned about this objected to the school because he felt he should have been told. He was informed by the school that it “was not a parental notification issue.” Then little kids were given the ‘right’ to use either the boy’s or girl’s restroom according to what they felt was their ‘gender identity.’

According to CNBC, in reference to facebook, users can use “… a customizable option with about 50 different terms people can use to identify their gender as well as three preferred … AP February 13, 2014, 2:26 PM …”

Now a polygamist has filed for a marriage license:

usatoday.com/story/news/nation-now/2015/07/02/montana-polygamous-marriage-license-supreme-court/29612673/

The situation continues to escalate. It’s appropriate that Catholics be informed about such matters through legitimate Catholic outlets because the media will not, or report certain Church statements incorrectly or incompletely. Or find a way to say the Church is wrong.

God bless,
Ed

A good history lesson and wake up call for those who think the present focus on sex is all about the Church turning up the volume!

 

[catholic1seeks]

What do you mean by “Gay men and women”? if you mean persons who personally embrace a sexual relationship with a person of the same sex, then it is incomprehensible that they are asked to provide a leadership role in the Church while openly living behavior contrary to what the Church Teaches. Perhaps you could elaborate.

How is this incomprehensible?

What about all the leaders of the local church who use contraception? Or who cohabitate? Or who are divorced and even remarried?

Then again, maybe it is incomprehensible knowing that some U.S. Catholics are obsessed with homosexuality

 

[catholic1seeks]

By definition, sexual acts produce new life. By extension, acts that are not open to new life/procreation, are not sexual acts. They are nothing more than self pleasure.

Ummm, I don’t think so. There are plenty of sexual acts that do not lead to new life and not even open to procreation; by definition, they are sexual - even if they are not legitimate in the Church’s eyes. Homosexual acts, which I referred to, are a kind of sexual activity that is not open to new life (for obvious reasons), but my point was that *that in itself *does not make it inherently sinful.

Today’s culture of relativism would find that perfectly acceptable…if it’s fun and feels good…go for it.

We can agree here that relativism and hedonism are not part of the Christian life. Life is not all about having, getting pleasure, and it especially not about using people as objects. But where you and I disagree is that homosexual activity somehow in and of itself is all about pleasure, is totally wrong, etc. I maintain that it can be a legitimate expression of mutual love between two people are very much in love.

However…

Canon 1061 of the Code of Canon Law states that a valid marriage is “called ratified and consummated if the parties have performed between themselves in a human manner the conjugal act which is per se suitable for the generation of children, to which marriage is ordered by its very nature and by which the spouses become one flesh.”

Thus, oral sex, anal sex, and mutual masturbation do not constitute consummation of marriage and remain serious sins.

It seems canon law is reflecting traditional Church teaching, which is the whole issue of this thread and our discussion, is it not?

You seem to have a more than average understanding of Catholicism. You know scripture and you claim to have “Catholic tendencies” according to your profile page. I would assume that you could be interested in becoming Catholic.

What bothers me is your inability to accept the truths, explanations and answers provided to you by forum members. I would think that if someone wanted to join a club, they would embrace the rules and traditions of that club rather than argue about them with the members. I would hope that you are not one of those who post on the forum with the intention of changing the Church before you accept it.

I am glad you are concerned for me. But when you refer to my “inability” to accept the truths and explanations, I do not really know how to respond. I could really say some of the same things to you and others, who do not seem to be open to seeing homosexuality in any way other than specific acts.

 

[maryjk]

How is this incomprehensible?

What about all the leaders of the local church who use contraception? Or who cohabitate? Or who are divorced and even remarried?

Then again, maybe it is incomprehensible knowing that some U.S. Catholics are obsessed with homosexuality

How can you tell that someone uses contraception? Do they advertise it?

There are no church leaders, at our parish, that are cohabitating. And if there are any that have remarried, they have received an annulment.

 

[estesbob]

How is this incomprehensible?

What about all the leaders of the local church who use contraception? Or who cohabitate? Or who are divorced and even remarried?

Then again, maybe it is incomprehensible knowing that some U.S. Catholics are obsessed with homosexuality

Do you agree with the Church teachings on homosexuality? Does that fact that all Catholics sin make homosexual behavior OK? Why does it matter if Catholics are obsessed with homosexuality(a false premise ) it is totally irrelevantin a discussion about the sinfulness of homosexual behavior.)

 

[edwest2]

A good history lesson and wake up call for those who think the present focus on sex is all about the Church turning up the volume!

Thanks. Notice that the volume always gets turned up gradually, slowly, so that some us slowly lose our sensitivity to sexual sin, or it’s presented in a way that leads to false compassion for, say, ‘gay marriage.’ Or worse, to indifference. There is right and wrong, not relativism.

Pope Benedict:

“We are moving toward a dictatorship of relativism which does not recognize anything as for certain and which has as its highest goal one’s own ego and one’s own desires. The church must defend itself against threats such as “radical individualism” and “vague religious mysticism”. [emphasis added]”

---

Iggy Pop - 1979 (from the album - “new values”)

“I wish life could be ANYTHING!”

When God is deducted from the equation then the ‘social furniture’ can be moved around any way man wants.

Ed

 

[Corki]

How is this incomprehensible?

What about all the leaders of the local church who use contraception? Or who cohabitate? Or who are divorced and even remarried?

Then again, maybe it is incomprehensible knowing that some U.S. Catholics are obsessed with homosexuality

Well, speaking of my local Church, no one who is cohabiting or who is divorced and civilly remarried can serve in ministry or be a sponsor for someone entering the Church. Nor can they be teachers in the Religious Education program. That’s the rule. I suppose there could be someone who is cohabiting but no one in the parish knows about it and they get away with it.

People don’t usually know who might be using contraception so that’s an apples and oranges comparison.

 

[estesbob]

Well, speaking of my local Church, no one who is cohabiting or who is divorced and civilly remarried can serve in ministry or be a sponsor for someone entering the Church. Nor can they be teachers in the Religious Education program. That’s the rule. I suppose there could be someone who is cohabiting but no one in the parish knows about it and they get away with it.

People don’t usually know who might be using contraception so that’s an apples and oranges comparison.

And of course it is totally irrelevant as to Church teaching on homosexuality.

 

[catholic1seeks]

How can you tell that someone uses contraception? Do they advertise it?

There are no church leaders, at our parish, that are cohabitating. And if there are any that have remarried, they have received an annulment.

How can you tell if a gay couple is having sex?

I can assure you not all American parishes are like this.

 

[estesbob]

How can you tell if a gay couple is having sex?

I can assure you not all American parishes are like this.

How is that relevant to church teaching on homosexuality