Why is the US Catholic church so obsessed with the gay issue?

[estesbob]

Maybe these people have close family and friends who are gay.

I do. My Daughter is marrying her long time partner this Friday before a judge.

 

[Zoltan_Cobalt]

Ummm, I don’t think so. There are plenty of sexual acts that do not lead to new life and not even open to procreation; by definition, they are sexual - even if they are not legitimate in the Church’s eyes. Homosexual acts, which I referred to, are a kind of sexual activity that is not open to new life (for obvious reasons), but my point was that *that in itself *does not make it inherently sinful.

Well, I guess we have to get specific. The Church teaches that “homosexual acts” are are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. Under no circumstances can they be approved."

So what homosexual acts are you referring to that are not inherently sinful???

We can agree here that relativism and hedonism are not part of the Christian life. Life is not all about having, getting pleasure, and it especially not about using people as objects. But where you and I disagree is that homosexual activity somehow in and of itself is all about pleasure, is totally wrong, etc. I maintain that it can be a legitimate expression of mutual love between two people are very much in love.

There is nothing wrong with a strong, loving FRIENDSHIP. But the addition of homosexual acts express more pain than love.

It seems canon law is reflecting traditional Church teaching, which is the whole issue of this thread and our discussion, is it not?

Yes it is.

I am glad you are concerned for me. But when you refer to my “inability” to accept the truths and explanations, I do not really know how to respond. I could really say some of the same things to you and others, who do not seem to be open to seeing homosexuality in any way other than specific acts.

What do you expect from a Catholic forum?

You ask the question: Why is the US Catholic church so obsessed with the gay issue?

The answer is simply because the gay issue is very popular today.

You also state:

Well, this thread is not about the sinfulness of homosexuality per se. One can agree homosexuality is sinful yet still agree the American church in its various outlets and expressions devotes too much time to it in a way that is unproductive, especially when it could be figuring out how to better bring homosexual persons into the fold.

You cannot leave sin out of this…this is a Catholic forum and we believe that homosexuality is sinful.

I don’t know what you mean by “the American church” But the Catholic (Universal) Church is in the business of salvation. That includes homosexuals. The Church can only “show the way”. It is up to individuals to accept or reject what the Church teaches in order to attain salvation. I can’t see how this is unproductive…all are welcome.

 

[Rau]

Maybe these people have close family and friends who are gay.

No doubt, and they are moved by compassion. That is completely understandable. Hopefully mutual respect and love permits the family members to continue their family relationship without demanding too high a price.

 

[estesbob]

If a parish is letting parishioners who are publicly living a life not in accord with Church teaching take on active and leadership roles, that pastor is not doing his job.

Nothing in the Church is stopping you from doing so. If there is a barrier or a conflict, it’s internal. I know many, many people who are active in the Church and have a strong family life.

I can tell you from personal experience that one does not have to choose between faith and family. All my daughters are sinners-as is their Father. I love them all and nothing will stand in the way of mine having a good relationship with them. I can accept the way they want to live their lives-I just don’t have to affirm it.

 

[Thorolfr]

No doubt, and they are moved by compassion. That is completely understandable. Hopefully mutual respect and love permits the family members to continue their family relationship without demanding too high a price.

Often that doesn’t happen. Growing up and as a young man, when my extended family (aunts, uncles, cousins, etc) used to get together for Thanksgiving every year, I would attend, but I haven’t gone in many years because I didn’t feel that I would be welcome to go and bring my partner with me. My partner’s family specifically said that I was not welcome to attend their family reunion with him.

 

[edwest2]

Though how would attempts to treat this spiritual illness be received by those arguing it is not wrong, and that they have an equal right to pursue a sexual relationship with whomever they love? Does it not seem likely the “patient” will sign himself out ?

That is part of the issue. Some gay people believe, “I was born this way.” The Church has no definitive cause for being gay. I don’t think gay (LGBT) persons should hate themselves for feeling what they feel, but straight people should also consider their sexual sins as well.

Most of the current problems in the West can be traced back to a false belief that you and I cannot control our sexual behavior - at all. The Church or State does not tell anyone when to have sex in the general sense. But the “hook up” fad culture relies on The Pill, the Morning After Pill, the IUD, spermicidal foam or some barrier method.

I was born before any of this, aside from the condom, existed. The average number of kids for miles around was 2, not 10.

Ed

 

[ARSpade]

Somebody may have already posted it, but my favorite thing on this topic came from a Catholic website’s facebook page.

Culture: sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex sex
Church: Divinity, forgiveness, awe, understanding, charity, compassion, etc., and sex
Culture: Why are you so obsessed with sex?

If that is the OFFICIAL statement it could be correct because MOST Catholic women use Natural Family Planning and the statement does not say what kind of contraception was used.

Beyond that, the study is flawed.

According to their own data…11% of Catholic women use NO contraception at all. Now let’s see…98% + 11% = 109% Where did the extra 9% come from?

Baseless surveys like this one should be rejected as a joke. It was conducted by the Guttmacher Institute, which is a non-profit organization that promotes reproductive health and had started as an arm of Planned Parenthood. Organizations like this are so focused on promoting their agenda they forget that 98 + 11= 109. Duh!

That study would also include my wife, who used BC before coming back to the Church and now only uses NFP. But she would be part of their 98%.

 

[estesbob]

Often that doesn’t happen. Growing up and as a young man, when my extended family (aunts, uncles, cousins, etc) used to get together for Thanksgiving every year, I would attend, but I haven’t gone in many years because I didn’t feel that I would be welcome to go and bring my partner with me. My partner’s family specifically said that I was not welcome to attend their family reunion with him.

I am sorry you families have reacted that way. We have taken the opposite approach. My homosexual daughter and her partner and my homosexual nephew are included in all family functions. Our feeling is you don’t witness to people by excluding them. My Daughters Partner has commented she was quite surprised on how welcome she was made to feel in a Catholic Family. They know we disapprove of what they are doing. But if we start excluding sinners from family functions there will be a lot of leftovers

 

[maryjk]

Yes, I do see your dilemma.
But you have to conform yourself to the Church, not the other way around.

In my younger days, I led a quite sinful life. But I didn’t seek or expect my behavior
to get the stamp of approval of society or of the Church.

You have to choose.

Exactly.

 

[catholic1seeks]

Yes, I do see your dilemma.
But you have to conform yourself to the Church, not the other way around.

In my younger days, I led a quite sinful life. But I didn’t seek or expect my behavior
to get the stamp of approval of society or of the Church.

You have to choose.

It is not that easy.

For many people, and I hate to say me as well, conforming myself to the Church’s traditional teaching on this issue would cause me to lead a very sad and lonely life. That is not set in stone, of course. But I can tell you right now that I have a desire for a family. For relationship. And God knows this.

 

[catholic1seeks]

I do. My Daughter is marrying her long time partner this Friday before a judge.

I think you should be spending time with your daughter and celebrating her desire for commitment and happiness. Trying to convince me may be a waste of your time; pretend like you are talking to your daughter. How well would she receive what you are saying? I too want to have what your daughter will have one day.

 

[ARSpade]

It is not that easy.

For many people, and I hate to say me as well, conforming myself to the Church’s traditional teaching on this issue would cause me to lead a very sad and lonely life. That is not set in stone, of course. But I can tell you right now that I have a desire for a family. For relationship. And God knows this.

That implies that any celibate person leads a sad and lonely life which is silly.

Plus, I think the core issue there is that people today often think “love” basically only means “eros”

 

[Julianna]

I am sorry you families have reacted that way. We have taken the opposite approach. My homosexual daughter and her partner and my homosexual nephew are included in all family functions. Our feeling is you don’t witness to people by excluding them. My Daughters Partner has commented she was quite surprised on how welcome she was made to feel in a Catholic Family. They know we disapprove of what they are doing. But if we start excluding sinners from family functions there will be a lot of leftovers

And this is why I love Bob…

 

[Rau]

I think you should be spending time with your daughter and celebrating her desire for commitment and happiness. Trying to convince me may be a waste of your time; pretend like you are talking to your daughter. How well would she receive what you are saying? I too want to have what your daughter will have one day.

It sounds as though she has.

How does your family relate to you?

 

[estesbob]

I think you should be spending time with your daughter and celebrating her desire for commitment and happiness. Trying to convince me may be a waste of your time; pretend like you are talking to your daughter. How well would she receive what you are saying? I too want to have what your daughter will have one day.

I always spend as much time with my daughter as I can. She knows I disapprove of her relationship and I know she disapproves of my disapproval. But she knows we are always there for her regardless. To me the key is to accept but never affirm or approve. To be quite honest I really like her partner-I just wish she were a guy

My love for her, BTW, does not translate into watering down Church teachings or holding out the false hope that the Church is going to change its teachings.

 

[estesbob]

And this is why I love Bob…

The truth is at family gatherings my conservatism is a much bigger issue than my daughters sexual preference!

 

[Jeannie52]

Well, considering that gay “marriage” advocates are trying to teach kindergartners about sex

Why don’t they leave children alone to grow and mature to make their own decision?

 

[john_ennis]

Why don’t they leave children alone to grow and mature to make their own decision.

The reasons are probably many–not the least of which is that they think they are helping kids avoid the old lies about traditional relationships being right and normal.

G.K. Chesterton said something like, People becoming aware of sex realize two things: first that it is wonderful, second, that it is dangerous.

Parents of young kids have a healthy awareness that sexuality is both of those things. The culture just thinks it is great fun.
The fact that our culture wants to undermine what parents want to teach their children, should be widely known by every Catholic parent. If we were more acutely aware, we’d be even more “obsessed with the gay issue.”

 

[Bradski]

If that is the OFFICIAL statement it could be correct because MOST Catholic women use Natural Family Planning and the statement does not say what kind of contraception was used.

You are STILL not reading the link. It says:

‘the study says that 98 percent of “sexually experienced Catholic women” have “ever used a contraceptive method other than natural planning”’

Are we good with that? It specifically says ‘other than natural planning’.

Beyond that, the study is flawed. According to their own data…11% of Catholic women use NO contraception at all. Now let’s see…98% + 11% = 109% Where did the extra 9% come from?

Good grief, how many times do I have to spell this out? The survey does NOT say how many Catholic women ARE using (present tense) contraception. It says how many HAVE used it (past tense). And even if you accept the fact that 11% of Catholic women use no contraception at all, that means that almost 9 out of 10 women are committing mortal sin. Are we good with that as well?

Let’s face it, a large proportion of the posters here are in a relationship that uses contraception. Consciously and wilfully disobeying the church. There’s a saying about motes and beams that springs to mind. The term hypocrisy seems appropriate.

 

[Rau]

You are STILL not reading the link. It says:

‘the study says that 98 percent of “sexually experienced Catholic women” have “ever used a contraceptive method other than natural planning”’

Are we good with that? It specifically says ‘other than natural planning’.

Good grief, how many times do I have to spell this out? The survey does NOT say how many Catholic women ARE using (present tense) contraception. It says how many HAVE used it (past tense). And even if you accept the fact that 11% of Catholic women use no contraception at all, that means that almost 9 out of 10 women are committing mortal sin. Are we good with that as well?

Let’s face it, a large proportion of the posters here are in a relationship that uses contraception. Consciously and wilfully disobeying the church. There’s a saying about motes and beams that springs to mind. The term hypocrisy seems appropriate.

Undoubtedly, there are Catholics using contraception who don’t wish to tell others this fact. In all likelihood, these same people believe believe homosexual acts to be wrong. Many of them know contraception is wrong too. At the root of this, fundamentally, is weakness to conform aspects of their own lives. But none of this changes what is wrong.