Why is their lagging Interest in the OF?

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Robert_Burns said:
When I was in Rome last year I noticed so many Churches that were nearly empty for Mass. What has happened to Mass attendance? I see numerous posts on here asking if there is enough “demand” for the EF - but in my opinion - there seems to be a diminishing demand for the OF. Especially in Europe. Perhaps the need for more EF Masses is becoming more and more evident. Maybe the need is greater in Europe. But there is a need. Why wait until all is lost?

Pax
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Personally…

I became Catholic about 12 years ago and was taught the OF. This Mass took me quite awhile to learn and I still feel I have much to learn. At our current church we have the EF or TLM every Saturday and I have attended sometimes.

Five years ago I hated to go to a Mass that did not pray and sing and read in English. Probably because it was confusing enough in English.

But now I am teaching my kids Latin and trying to learn Latin as well.

I see a more profound Christian experience in the TLM (I mean EF) because it is so beautiful and so incredibly centered on Christ in the Eucharist. But years ago I would not have been so romanced by the EF and it’s fullness because of my own ignorance and lack of devotion.

I think it had allot to do with how I was raised and never having an experience in a Catholic Church. Our first church we went to when we moved was something I felt comfortable in at the time. But as my Faith and understanding grew I realized how void and incorrect this Church was. It lacked any reverance towars the Eucharist and the Priest and DRE both were teaching contrary to the RCC, as I found out later.

We now attend a church farther away but we are confident in it adhering to the Pope and Magesterium. Something I was ignorant to before. We mostly attend the OF Mass and find it more comfortable. But we will attend the TLM (EF) because it is so awesome. The TLM is the Mass that has deeper roots in Christianity and is one we feel connects us somehow with all Christians though out time.

So long as we have both I think we will attend both. 😃
 
I wish with all my heart that there might be revival in the RC, that more and more people would come home.
 
ConvertaKat said:
I wish with all my heart that there might be revival in the RC, that more and more people would come home.
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Sadly its the message of the Church is what makes people leave, not the form of Mass.

Many leave because they believe women should have equal opportunity to be priests. Others because they believe that two men or two women should be able to marry one another. While more just want to get married again to a different person, perhaps the first one was a mistake but nonetheless a valid marriage. And for the younger ones, the message of the Church saying no sleeping around is contrary to what popular media says is cool, and what all the other cool kids are doing.
 
The “message of The Church” is the message of Christ…if they can’t follow…good riddance. We have never had the necessity of being a “big tent” Church. I will take quality over quantity any day
ConstantineTG said:
Sadly its the message of the Church is what makes people leave, not the form of Mass.

Many leave because they believe women should have equal opportunity to be priests. Others because they believe that two men or two women should be able to marry one another. While more just want to get married again to a different person, perhaps the first one was a mistake but nonetheless a valid marriage. And for the younger ones, the message of the Church saying no sleeping around is contrary to what popular media says is cool, and what all the other cool kids are doing.
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Dum_Spiro_Spero said:
The “message of The Church” is the message of Christ…if they can’t follow…good riddance. We have never had the necessity of being a “big tent” Church. I will take quality over quantity any day
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Sadly I don’t share your view. God desires for all men to be reunited with Him. Of course Jesus said many will take the easy path to damnation, but the Church is here to rescue as many souls as possible. If there is a way to get people on the right track without compromising the morals and techings of Christ, then the Church must pull out all stops. That is why Christ got a fisherman to lead his Church. A fisherman knows how to move his boat to where he can catch more fish.
 
Don’t get me wrong…I totally agree with you. I know what I said came across as harsh…let me expound a bit on what I meant…I meant for those who want to be in the ranks and have The Church conform to them, as opposed to them conforming to The Church…i.e. the person procuring abortions who expects the Church to support their way of life, etc…those people hopefully, by the grace of God will ultimately convert…but if they choose not to, then don’t let the door hit em where the good Lord split em…know what I mean?
ConstantineTG said:
Sadly I don’t share your view. God desires for all men to be reunited with Him. Of course Jesus said many will take the easy path to damnation, but the Church is here to rescue as many souls as possible. If there is a way to get people on the right track without compromising the morals and techings of Christ, then the Church must pull out all stops. That is why Christ got a fisherman to lead his Church. A fisherman knows how to move his boat to where he can catch more fish.
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Dum_Spiro_Spero said:
Don’t get me wrong…I totally agree with you. I know what I said came across as harsh…let me expound a bit on what I meant…I meant for those who want to be in the ranks and have The Church conform to them, as opposed to them conforming to The Church…i.e. the person procuring abortions who expects the Church to support their way of life, etc…those people hopefully, by the grace of God will ultimately convert…but if they choose not to, then don’t let the door hit em where the good Lord split em…know what I mean?
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Yes, I get what you mean. I too sometimes say that after moving to Canada I feel better in church because even if the church is half empty, everyone inside wants to be there. But back in the Philippines where I came from, churches are so full, standing room only every Mass. But sadly most people only show up for Mass, most of them are not even good practicing Catholics in the sense.

But I also forget that I too once were like them. I go to Mass weekly because I was brought up that way. Its a habit and I don’t want to disappoint my mom by not going to Mass, even though we do not go together. But being there week after week helped me find my way back eventually. Even during a time that I was doubting my faith, I did not fall far away from it.

I guess my experience makes me more sympathetic
 
ConstantineTG said:
Yes, I get what you mean. I too sometimes say that after moving to Canada I feel better in church because even if the church is half empty, everyone inside wants to be there. But back in the Philippines where I came from, churches are so full, standing room only every Mass. But sadly most people only show up for Mass, most of them are not even good practicing Catholics in the sense.

But I also forget that I too once were like them. I go to Mass weekly because I was brought up that way. Its a habit and I don’t want to disappoint my mom by not going to Mass, even though we do not go together. But being there week after week helped me find my way back eventually. Even during a time that I was doubting my faith, I did not fall far away from it.

I guess my experience makes me more sympathetic
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You bring up a very good point. In my own personal experience, since returning to the faith 13 years ago after a long absence, I have had periods of grave doubt, acedia, apathy, disbelief, rebellion, etc. Yet I literally force myself, often against my will, to go to Mass and recite the Liturgy of the Hours. I firmly believe that persistence in prayer and Mass attendance is important to get us through those spiritual dry spells.

I chant the Liturgy of the Hours in Gregorian Chant most of the time, and occasionally, in a down time, I pull it off particularly well and it re-inspires me.

The point is, never give up! The sacraments are there for a reason!
 
OraLabora said:
You bring up a very good point. In my own personal experience, since returning to the faith 13 years ago after a long absence, I have had periods of grave doubt, acedia, apathy, disbelief, rebellion, etc. Yet I literally force myself, often against my will, to go to Mass and recite the Liturgy of the Hours. I firmly believe that persistence in prayer and Mass attendance is important to get us through those spiritual dry spells.

I chant the Liturgy of the Hours in Gregorian Chant most of the time, and occasionally, in a down time, I pull it off particularly well and it re-inspires me.

The point is, never give up! The sacraments are there for a reason!
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But I want to make a point that we shouldn’t turn people away just because they’ve been lukewarm in the faith. Eventually, with enough prayers, they will grow in faith in the Church as most of us have.
 
I agree…we shouldnt’ turn anyone away…however, with that said, we shouldn’t welcome them to Catholicism on a diet or a watered down, borderline heretical version of it such as lifeteen or Charismatic Masses just to keep them in the pews. They need to accept The Church’s teaching, especially on the non-negotiables, and they need to be instructed in the true Liturgy of The Church.
ConstantineTG said:
But I want to make a point that we shouldn’t turn people away just because they’ve been lukewarm in the faith. Eventually, with enough prayers, they will grow in faith in the Church as most of us have.
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Dum_Spiro_Spero said:
I agree…we shouldnt’ turn anyone away…however, with that said, we shouldn’t welcome them to Catholicism on a diet or a watered down, borderline heretical version of it such as lifeteen or Charismatic Masses just to keep them in the pews. They need to accept The Church’s teaching, especially on the non-negotiables, and they need to be instructed in the true Liturgy of The Church.
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I believe we have to meet them halfway somewhere. I have been saying the past couple of days, Christ chose a fisherman to lead the Church because fishermen knows how and when to move the boat to capture more fish. We shouldn’t deny that the Church has always adapted to the culture of the people since the first century. I guess from our perspective its always east to accept it when the Apostles themselves are telling Gentile converts that they do not have to be circumcised. But if this change happened today, there’s much more broohaha from those who would disagree. Yesterday’s Gospel was a very powerful reading regarding the authority of the Apostles and this authority has been passed on to our Bishops today. We should trust that they know what they are doing because its what they think about 24-hours a day. And they have a better feel for society than we do because they, through the priests, listen to what people are clamouring for. We don’t. We only hear our own concerns and those immediately around us.

Remember, not everything in Liturgy is set in stone. There are things you cannot change that you should never change. But those things that we can, then those who has the authority to should adapt to the needs of the people today.
 
ConstantineTG said:
I believe we have to meet them halfway somewhere. I have been saying the past couple of days, Christ chose a fisherman to lead the Church because fishermen knows how and when to move the boat to capture more fish.
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Where does it say this? Can’t the same be said for tax collectors too?
 
ProVobis said:
I agree for the most part. But one has to wonder perhaps the collegiality documents of Vatican II might have gone a little too far in giving too much control in the hands of the bishops and taking away too much from the Vatican. Perhaps there was a misunderstanding or mistranslations of those documents. Just saying.
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Sorry, but I disagree. The Pre-Vatican II Church dealt with the immorality “outside the Church doors”. I’m trying to think of something, in particular, that we would have been warned against from the Pulpit & from the Catholic Schools. The only thing that I can think of at the moment is the crisis of Pederasty within the Church. It would have been addressed from the pulpit,** it most definitely would not have been ignored.** Neither would books like the DaVinci Code & movies like Brokeback Mountain.
 
ProVobis said:
So how does this justify the Church meeting its discontents halfway?
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Like I said, fishermen need to move their boats to catch more fish

Since they are fishers of men, they need to move the boat to where more people are. Meaning move what can be changed in the Church to where the people are and get more of them in the “net”. Of course the Church itself and its doctrines is the boat itself, and you cannot change the boat.

Remember, the Apostles did adjust a lot of traditions to accomodate the Gentiles. No reason the Church cannot do the same thing today.
 
CradleCath said:
It would have been addressed from the pulpit,** it most definitely would not have been ignored.** Neither would books like the DaVinci Code & movies like Brokeback Mountain.
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Are you referring to the old A1,A2,A3,A4,B,C movie rating system the Church once had? I forget the actual name for the system.
 
Robert_Burns said:
Robert: Then why is the EF more widely supported where offered. I know a lot of people my age (50 +) also who stopped going to the Church when they did away with the EF intitially. And where it is offered today - it has been a success. in fact - the fact that we have a forum on Catholic answers and peoiple here are in here every day discussing it proves that to be true. Would we be having this conversation 10 years ago here? Obviously not. The youth today are the future of the Church. Do we want more of the same or do we want a rebirth. I think the answer to that question is obvious.
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SO TRUE!!!👍
 
ProVobis said:
Are you referring to the old A1,A2,A3,A4,B,C movie rating system the Church once had? I forget the actual name for the system.
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Yes. A list of movies was put out by the Legion of Decenty, which was formed in the early 1930’s. The Legion once had four limited categories: AI, for general patronage; A-II, for adults and adolescents only; B, objectionable in part for all; C, condemned. While the Legion still exists, it’s been heavily influenced by the liberal Jesuit order & I haven’t seen a print-out of the list hanging in a Church vestibule…oops, “Gathering Space”…since the 60’s. It used to make me a bit angry that my parents read it each month & enforced it. Now, I realize what a good thing it was.

Read more: time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,842279-1,00.html#ixzz0wURaRBhH
 
ConstantineTG said:
[BIBLEDRB]Mark 1:17[/BIBLEDRB]

Jesus did choose the fisherman to head His church, not Matthew.
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Yes, He did & there wasn’t a Cardinal Law or Anthony J. O’Connell, among them. Ecumenicism & converting those outside the Church has been a priority for decades. I think that it’s time to focus on those Catholics who are IN the Church, but not OF the Church.

I’m thinking right now of Ted Kennedy’s funeral. I have no problem with this prominent abortion promoter having a Catholic funeral…but the
3-ring circus/political rally that sent him off to the next world, was downright embarrassing.

I do realize that Christ “recruited” a traitor named Judas…but, to compare some of our hierarchy to Judas is not something I want to do right now.
 
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