Why is there a Purgatory

[gryskull]

Chris LaRock:

I understand all that, but I don’t see where purgatory is talked about in scriture. Wouldn’t that be an awfully important detail to leave out?

Actually, it is in scripture although it is implicit. You just have to put 2 and 2 together. Like the prayers for the dead in 2 Maccabees. The very words of St. Paul in 1Cor 3 that works will be burnt up and suffer loss but still will be saved. These are just some of the verses that point to the doctrine of purgatory.

 

[Your_Brother]

This whole bit on purgatory and the spiritual realm has me somewhat in disbelief. For example, when Jesus raised Lazerus from the dead, did he do him justice bringing him back to an earthly world if he had gome to a spiritual world?

If Lazarus went to a better place when he died why did Jesus cry when he died? If Lazerus was in a better spiritual place to be with God and then Jesus brought him back here, wouldn’t Lazarus have been upset when he returned to an earthly flesh and have been mad at Jesus for bringing him back here. Why did Jesus say to the apostles that Lazarus went to “sleep” if he rose to a spiritual world or a purgatory upon death?

If Jesus’ good friend Lazerus came back from this spiritual realm and landed back here on here to a worse place wouldn’t he have said, "Jesus, why did you do this and bring me back here? Is this a sign that resurrection means that we are resurrected to an earthly paradise. Just some thoughts. Hi Scylla! don’t tell on me.

 

[JimG]

Regarding purgatory and scripture: see this post

 

[Your_Brother]

Your Brother:

This whole bit on purgatory and the spiritual realm has me somewhat in disbelief. For example, when Jesus raised Lazerus from the dead, did he do him justice bringing him back to an earthly world if he had gome to a spiritual world?

If Lazarus went to a better place when he died why did Jesus cry when he died? If Lazerus was in a better spiritual place to be with God and then Jesus brought him back here, wouldn’t Lazarus have been upset when he returned to an earthly flesh and have been mad at Jesus for bringing him back here. Why did Jesus say to the apostles that Lazarus went to “sleep” if he rose to a spiritual world or a purgatory upon death?

If Jesus’ good friend Lazerus came back from this spiritual realm and landed back here on here to a worse place wouldn’t he have said, "Jesus, why did you do this and bring me back here? Is this a sign that resurrection means that we are resurrected to an earthly paradise. Just some thoughts.

I have always wondered the Catholic view on these questions about Lazarus specifically, anyone feel like taking a shot at it? I feel the resurrection is some pretty important stuff and there were three resurrections to earth we read about in the Bible.

 

[RCCDefender]

Chris,

1 Cor. 3:13-15 “the fire shall try every man’s work… If any man’s work burn, he shall suffer loss; but he himself shall be saved, yet so as by fire.” Obviously this fire isn’t in Hell, because you can’t be saved by hellfire, and there is not fire in Heaven.

Mt 5:26 “Amen, I say to you, you shall not go out of there until you repay the last farthing.”

Mt. 12:32 “And whoever speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven; but whoever speaks against the holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come.” So, we can be forgiven after death.

 

[Truthseeker4]

YinYangMom:

Purgatory is outside of time so passage of it is non-existent.

There are several saints who have been granted glimpses of purgatory…St. Faustina comes to mind at the moment, but others will probably be able to name others. You can read their stories, about their experiences to get a better feel for the concept of purgatory.

Keep in mind that Plenary indulgences (the remission of the entire temporal punishment due to sin so that no further expiation is required in Purgatory) are available to us during our time on earth as well as for those baptized who have already passed. So do not despair over purgatory. At least you are saved and haven’t been damned straight to hell.

Sorry I couldn’t be of more help.

Hi YinYangMom,

I am really trying to grasp purgatory and how it works. Hopefully you and others can follow what I am trying to get at. Further that I do not confuse myself more or others for that matter.

From scriptures I can see that we will all have to be judged. Basically it would be on how we lived here on Earth. Our actions and thoughts will be brought to light from our entire life. Bearing and showing the fruits of the spirit through our works. We will be judged based upon these works and our sins. Although we are baptized and blood bought by Jesus the ill effects need to be purged so that we will be white as snow. This purging is in effect from fire. Not the fire that eternal damnation would bring but fire that purges sins and its cause and effects.

Close or not really?

Melissa

 

[YinYangMom]

Truthseeker4:

From scriptures I can see that we will all have to be judged. Basically it would be on how we lived here on Earth. Our actions and thoughts will be brought to light from our entire life. Bearing and showing the fruits of the spirit through our works. We will be judged based upon these works and our sins. Although we are baptized and blood bought by Jesus the ill effects need to be purged so that we will be white as snow. This purging is in effect from fire. Not the fire that eternal damnation would bring but fire that purges sins and its cause and effects.

Close or not really?

Melissa

Oh gosh, there is a sound bite Relevant Radio uses in between regular program promoting Catholic Answers Live, and one of those is Jerry Usher, I believe, or maybe even Karl Keating, answering a question similar to yours. If you get a chance to keep that station on your computer for a day or two I’m sure you’ll hear it.

But from what I gather, are you close or not really…I’d say you’re at least on the same page…

Our bodies die, releasing our soul.

If we die in a state of grace, meaning we recently went to confession, did our penance and didn’t have time to sin again before our death…we still have the temporal affects of sin on our soul, and that needs to be purged before we can face God is His full glory, more for our sake than His, it seems. This is where that parable Jesus tells about the silversmith skimming off the residue from the silver before it’s pure enough to be cast. Purgatory is the state by which that purification takes place. How long we stay there is indeterminable a) because there is not time there, it’s beyond the real of these earthly constraints and b) it depends on our life, our prayer life, our charitable works, and how many people on earth and in heaven have been and are praying for us.

The Catholic Church has been granted the gift, through the Holy Spirit of indulgences. There are three classes: prayer, almsgiving, fasting. There are two types: Plenary (complete) and Partial (removes some but not all of the temporal effects). Perhaps there is another thread going into those more deeper, but the point is these gifts are available to us now to use on our own souls now or to offer for the souls of a deceased baptized soul (we can’t use them for another living baptized soul). This is why Catholic teaching encourages us constantly to pray, give and fast…it’s really for our own good as well as the Church’s.

Anyway one’s our soul is absolutely pure we get to go to Heaven.

Now I remember feeling pretty good about comprehending that when I figured it out, but then that sound bite on Relevant Radio threw a wrench into my understanding:

I remember the CA guy saying that there’s a judgement which takes place at the time of our death, but another when Christ comes again. And at that latter judgement that’s when everything in our lives will be taken into consideration (I particularly recall works of charity being one of those). This is where your description of your understanding of judgement sounds familiar.

I can’t recall if what we’d be judged on in the End was all the good of our lives (thinking that purgatory had removed all the bad). And I think that’s where I got confused and wished I had heard the original program. I didn’t understand why we’d need two judgements if Purgatory purified our souls. Maybe someone else on the boards can help us both understand that better…I’m thinking maybe our station in the New World will be determined by the Final Judgement analysis of the good in our lives, but that’s a wild guess.

The good news I walked away with, though, is if you get to Purgatory your salvation is assured. I keep hearing that whenever purgatory is mentioned…and then I wonder about that Final Judgement CA brought up because it did seem he was suggesting even at that Judgement we could lose our seat in Heaven. I hope and pray I misunderstood that!!

 

[Jlcastagna]

Truthseeker4, You’ve got it right now. Thank you everyone you did a great job at explaining this. It also cleared up some other minor questions for me which had nothing to do with purgatory.

May God Bless a nd Protect Us,
Jlcastagna

Your arms are to short to box with God!

 

[YinYangMom]

Truthseeker4:

Hi YinYangMom,

I am really trying to grasp purgatory and how it works. Hopefully you and others can follow what I am trying to get at. Further that I do not confuse myself more or others for that matter.

From scriptures I can see that we will all have to be judged. Basically it would be on how we lived here on Earth. Our actions and thoughts will be brought to light from our entire life. Bearing and showing the fruits of the spirit through our works. We will be judged based upon these works and our sins. Although we are baptized and blood bought by Jesus the ill effects need to be purged so that we will be white as snow. This purging is in effect from fire. Not the fire that eternal damnation would bring but fire that purges sins and its cause and effects.

Close or not really?

Melissa

You’ve pretty much got the judgement part right, near as I can tell. But the part about being baptized and blood bought by Jesus seems a little off.

Jesus’ death opened the gates of Heaven to every soul who died after the Fall of Adam and Eve (when the gates where shut, and I suppose except for Elijah and Moses) and for every soul from that day forward. He paid the price of Original Sin. He descended to the dead to spread the Good News that He was the Way, the Truth, and the Life. When He rose from the dead on Easter Sunday, all the souls who accepted Him were released and allowed to move on to Heaven. Those who did not went to hell, so I understand.

You and I, when we were baptized were cleased of original sin and our soul was pure at that moment (plenary indulgences bring your soul back to this state). In olden days some people would live a Christian life but wait until their death beds to be baptized just to be certain they’d go to heaven quickly. But we have our entire lives to sin, despite Jesus’ sacrifice for us. He knew this and gave Peter the power to bind and loose, so we receive the Sacrament of Reconciliation and cling to it (if we’re wise). Partial indulgences are kind of like reconciliation in that it removes some of the temporal effects of sin but not all, because reconciliation forgives us our sin, absolves us completely thus the sin never happened in God’s book, but leaves the residue of that sin (temporal effect).

So whenever our moment comes to leave this temporary realm of life our soul retains whatever was on it at the time of our death. That is what purgatory works on, whatever remains on our souls from our own lifetime which would keep up from being ready to face God in all His glory.

As for the fire thing, Jesus used that in his parables, some saints have seen fire, others did not, but they all felt the anguish and longing for release. I do recommend again that you look up which saints had visions of souls in purgatory and read up on their lives, their testimony, to get a better appreciation for purgatory.

Me, what little I read scared me enough to make sure I keep the negative out of my mind and my heart because I honestly do not know my hour and I do not want to die outside the state of grace. Don’t even wanna risk it…nothing on this earth is worth that price for me.

 

[Truthseeker4]

YinYangMom:

You’ve pretty much got the judgement part right, near as I can tell. But the part about being baptized and blood bought by Jesus seems a little off.

I will try to explain how I understand what baptism means. Even though it is only believed to be a public profession it is not the only thing that it meant. I thought of it as wiping the slate clean and that I was born anew. To be born into the Kingdom of God. I did get into an argument with someone who was trying to tell me that it is only a public profession. I did go ahead with the Baptism hoping and trusting that God would correct me if I was wrong and forgive me for the rebellion if it was rebellion at all.

What I mean by blood bought is that Jesus paid the penalty for my sins. That penalty is hell.
I hoped that I explained this well enough on what I have been taught and read in the Bible.

Jesus’ death opened the gates of Heaven to every soul who died after the Fall of Adam and Eve (when the gates where shut, and I suppose except for Elijah and Moses) and for every soul from that day forward. He paid the price of Original Sin. He descended to the dead to spread the Good News that He was the Way, the Truth, and the Life. When He rose from the dead on Easter Sunday, all the souls who accepted Him were released and allowed to move on to Heaven. Those who did not went to hell, so I understand.

You and I, when we were baptized were cleased of original sin and our soul was pure at that moment (plenary indulgences bring your soul back to this state). In olden days some people would live a Christian life but wait until their death beds to be baptized just to be certain they’d go to heaven quickly. But we have our entire lives to sin, despite Jesus’ sacrifice for us. He knew this and gave Peter the power to bind and loose, so we receive the Sacrament of Reconciliation and cling to it (if we’re wise). Partial indulgences are kind of like reconciliation in that it removes some of the temporal effects of sin but not all, because reconciliation forgives us our sin, absolves us completely thus the sin never happened in God’s book, but leaves the residue of that sin (temporal effect).

I do not understand what you mean by plenary indulgences. Would you explain it a little bit?

So whenever our moment comes to leave this temporary realm of life our soul retains whatever was on it at the time of our death. That is what purgatory works on, whatever remains on our souls from our own lifetime which would keep up from being ready to face God in all His glory.

As for the fire thing, Jesus used that in his parables, some saints have seen fire, others did not, but they all felt the anguish and longing for release. I do recommend again that you look up which saints had visions of souls in purgatory and read up on their lives, their testimony, to get a better appreciation for purgatory.

Do you have any recommendations? This is new to me.

Me, what little I read scared me enough to make sure I keep the negative out of my mind and my heart because I honestly do not know my hour and I do not want to die outside the state of grace. Don’t even wanna risk it…nothing on this earth is worth that price for me.

Would you please clarify the state of grace?

Thank you for responding.

Melissa

 

[Truthseeker4]

scylla:

Amen,
“And it is appointed unto men to die, but after this the judgement.”
Hebrews 9:27

As a Catholic I believe that 100%, we will be judged after we die. Purgatory is for people who are assured salvation being made perfect. Is God going to just say you are perfect or make you perfect? God wouldn’t lie and say something that isn’t perfect, perfect.

God Bless
Scylla

Please correct me if I am wrong.

Basically Catholics believe in the blessed assurance of salvation though the cause and effects of sins will have to be purified by purgatory.

The only time you are not assured of salvation is if you are in a state of sin at your time of death. Reading the Bible idolators, adulterors, drunkards… will not be admitted into Heaven nor going through purgatory. Since they were not in obedience to God because they were not showing God their love.

Basically that is what I believe except for the purgatory part because I thought you would be purified right there at the judgement.

Melissa

 

[YinYangMom]

Truthseeker4:

*I will try to explain how I understand what baptism means. Even though it is only believed to be a public profession it is not the only thing that it meant. I thought of it as wiping the slate clean and that I was born anew. To be born into the Kingdom of God. I did get into an argument with someone who was trying to tell me that it is only a public profession. I did go ahead with the Baptism hoping and trusting that God would correct me if I was wrong and forgive me for the rebellion if it was rebellion at all. *

*Sacraments are outward signs of God’s grace and presence on earth, but they confer actual graces on the person’s soul receiving the grace it represents.

In baptism, the holy water is the symbol of the purifying grace which is wiping the recipient’s soul* clean, not only from any sin that person may have committed up until that point, but first and foremost Original Sin the person was born with because of the Fall. In infant baptism there is no ‘personal’ sin to be cleansed, only Original. When one is baptised later in life, the primary function of baptism is to remove Original sin so that the grace of the Trinity can then remove the sins the person may have committed prior to that moment.

Because we are baptized in the name of the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit and our souls are cleansed we are reborn into His Family, which then makes His Kingdom part of our inheritance.

What I mean by blood bought is that Jesus paid the penalty for my sins. That penalty is hell.

I hoped that I explained this well enough on what I have been taught and read in the Bible.

Jesus died way before I was even born, let alone baptized (had I been baptized later in life) so how could His death have paid for my personal sins?

This is how I’ve come to understand the teachings:

Jesus’ death opened the gates of Heaven. Until the Resurrection those gates were CLOSED (thanks to Adam and Eve)… The only people I can recall being assumed into heaven were Elijah and Moses, but I think there was one other prophet. The souls of everyone else who died before Christ were waiting all those years for the Old Covenant to be fulfilled. His blood was the price for the sin of Adam and Eve. That is one of the reasons He had to die. Through His death He descended to the dead to give them the Good News that the waiting was over. Then on the third day He rose again to open the gates of Heaven for everyone else (including you and me).

Before He ascended into heavean Jesus instituted the Sacraments as ways for Him to remain close to us until He comes again. Fast forward to you and me. The gates of heaven are open but we aren’t part of the New Covenant until we become baptised in the name of the Trinity and thus become members of His Church and family.

I do not understand what you mean by plenary indulgences. Would you explain it a little bit?

I’m learning about them myself. When I used the terms back in Post #10 I attached links to them so that if you click on the word another window will come up to guide you to more specific information.

In a nutshell though, they are something the Catholic Church grants in order extend’s God’s mercy by allowing us to help clean our souls prior to having to face purgatory to do it for us.

Would you please clarify the state of grace?

Thank you for responding.

You’re welcome. I’ll have to look up a good definition for state of grace…short form: free from mortal sin. I’m not sure about venial sins. But ideally, you’d want to die without either on your soul. The key is to have you soul as near to the state it was immediately after your baptism as possible. The Sacrament of Reconciliation is a Godsend grossly underappreciated, imo, because it is what removes mortal and venial sins from our souls, leaving only the temporal effects. Then the Church gives us all these ways to whittle away the temporal effects while we’re still here through prayer, almsgiving and/or fasting.

 

[JimG]

Truthseeker4:

Basically that is what I believe except for the purgatory part because I thought you would be purified right there at the judgement.

Melissa

And perhaps that could very well be the case. The purification that you undergo ‘at judgment’ would then be purgatory.

It seems to me that a soul which has been partially deformed by sin–even though repented of and forgiven–will have a keen awareness of its own shortcomings when it comes face to face with God at judgment, after death. That drawing of the soul to God, illuminating every dark corner of our being, cannot help but be both painful and purifying.

 

[Alfie]

YinYangMom:

I was reading an article about purgatory the other day and they did cite references from scripture which the Fathers of the Church used as the basis for their understanding of the concept of purgatory.

I can’t recall the specific references, sorry, but I did notice the scriptures themselves did not mention ‘purgatory’. It was the inspired revelation of the Fathers who, upon reading the scriptures, came to know about purgatory, so it seems.

Since our faith is based upon Scripture and Tradition, our Church Fathers and the Saints’ revelations/teachings carry equal weight to what is recorded in Scripture with us.

There are many saints who were granted visions of purgatory. Padre Pio was visited by a soul in purgatory who was allowed to be visible by Padre Pio by God in order to ask the father to say a mass for him in order to release him from purgatory. Padre Pio said the mass the next morning. Several weeks later he went to the records office to inquire about that particular person, and sure enough, the person’s name was recorded as being in the specific room the person had said he was in and died in the manner the person had said he had.

St. Faustina saw the souls in purgatory. Some appealed to her to pray for them, which she did.

Through the saints and the Fathers of the Church we continue to learn more about God’s mercy and love for us, beyond scripture and through scripture. Their graces, blessing, gifts are what help the Church to remain alive after 2000 years, just as Jesus promised, and for that we are eternally grateful.

Why do Catholics use both the Bible and Tradition? Why not just do away with the Bible? So much of the Bible contradicts Tradition. If they condradict each other then only one point of view can be correct. I don’t see anything about purgatory in the Bible. If St.Faustina saw souls in purgatory then it was only a manifestation of satan to deceive people. Just like the so called visions of Mary. Anything that detracts from the sacrificial death of Jesus on the cross is what satan wants.

 

[jediliz]

Alfie,

So you’re saying there are no souls in purgatory? That everyone goes to Heaven regardless of their sins? Purgatory exists for the purpose of a cleansing station. I guess I could describe it as a ‘rest stop’ on the way to Heaven. For some the stay will be short, for some it may be longer.

 

[Alfie]

jediliz:

Alfie,

So you’re saying there are no souls in purgatory? That everyone goes to Heaven regardless of their sins? Purgatory exists for the purpose of a cleansing station. I guess I could describe it as a ‘rest stop’ on the way to Heaven. For some the stay will be short, for some it may be longer.

The Bible doesn’t say anything about purgatory. Therefore I don’t believe in it.

Just out of curiosity. How much time do you think you will spend there? Hours, months, years, etc?

 

[MariaG]

Alfie:

Why do Catholics use both the Bible and Tradition? Why not just do away with the Bible? So much of the Bible contradicts Tradition.
Please, start a new thread on this. There is absolutely not one Sacred Tradition that contradicts the Bible.

If they condradict each other then only one point of view can be correct.
In a new thread, name one.

I don’t see anything about purgatory in the Bible.
Apparently you choose not to actually read any of the posts above? There is actually much in Scripture about purgartory. Not the word but the concept. Much like there is not the word Trinity, but the teaching is still in Scripture. While I won’t put most of the commentary with it, this list can be found yourself here at Scripture Catholic I realize others have already listed scripture, but since you did not read it, here it is again. Pick up your Bible and read for yourself.

Scripture

I. A State After Death of Suffering and Forgiveness

Matt. 5:26,18:34; Luke 12:58-59 –
Matt. 5:48 - Jesus says, “be perfect, even as your heavenly Father is perfect.” We are only made perfect through purification, and in Catholic teaching, this purification, if not completed on earth, is continued in a transitional state we call purgatory.

Matt. 12:32

Luke 18.30; 20.34-35; Eph. 1.21 for similar language). Forgiveness is not necessary in heaven, and there is no forgiveness in hell. This proves that there is another state after death, and the Church for 2,000 years has called this state purgatory.

Luke 12:47-48

Luke 16:19-31

1 Cor. 15:29-30

2 Macc. 12:44-45

Phil. 2:10

2 Tim. 1:16-18 -

Heb. 12:14

Heb. 12:23

1 Peter 3:19; 4:6

Rev. 21:4 “

Luke 23:43

Gen. 50:10; Num. 20:29; Deut. 34:8

Baruch 3:4Zech. 9:11 2 Macc. 12:43-45
http://www.scripturecatholic.com/images/horbar.gif
II. Purification After Death By Fire

Heb. 12:29
1 Cor. 3:10-15
1 Cor. 3:15
1 Cor. 3:15
1 Cor. 3:13
1 Cor. 3:17
1 Peter 1:6-7
Jude 1:23
Rev. 3:18-19 - Jesus refers to this fire as what refines into gold those He loves if they repent of their sins. This is in the context of after death because Jesus, speaking from heaven, awards the white garment of salvation after the purgation of fire (both after death).
Dan 12:10
Wis. 3:5-6
Sirach 2:5
Zech. 13:8-9
Mal. 3:2-3

If St.Faustina saw souls in purgatory then it was only a manifestation of satan to deceive people. Just like the so called visions of Mary.
Certainly discussing Marian visions as well as visions Saint have had is a laudable topic. Start a new thread to discuss you view of them being satanic.
Anything that detracts from the sacrificial death of Jesus on the cross is what satan wants.
Purgatory in no way detracts from the sacrificial death of Jesus. And the greatest lies satan has spread are those of Christ’s Church, the Catholic Church. Why don’t you take some time to actually look into what the Catholic Church teaches, the scriptural nature of it and stop being a tool of satan.

 

[Contarini]

Warrior4Truth:

HI everyone…
I just wanted to know the facts about purgatory. What is it? Why is it there? What bible verses prove its existence? Why do you go there? I would very much appreciate to know the answers to these questions.

I recommend Jerry Walls’s excellent article in First Things. Walls is a Methodist theologian and makes a good case for Purgatory from a Protestant (Wesleyan) perspective.

As a Protestant, I don’t think Purgatory is binding dogma, precisely because it is not clearly taught in Scripture (though texts like 1 Cor. 3 do seem to imply something of the sort). But I think it’s a highly reasonable theory. If you don’t believe in Purgatory, how do you think our sanctification is perfected at/after death?

And the ancient practice of prayer for the dead is clearly taught in a deutero-canonical text (II Maccabees, considered in some sense canonical by the Church historically, though regarded by many theologians as not being fully inspired and not a valid basis for proving dogma) and possibly found in an undisputedly canonical text (2 Tim. 1:18). I think it’s clearly something that Christians both can and should practice (though I would not call someone a heretic for rejecting it). And obviously if you practice prayer for the dead then you are likely to look more kindly on speculations about Purgatory, though it’s quite possible to reject such speculations and see prayer for the dead as simply commending them to God’s mercy. (Furthermore, the earliest explicit Christian prayer for the dead I know of–Perpetua’s intercession for her brother Dinocrates–concerns someone who died without baptism and presumably was in some kind of hell rather than purgatory. The account is in sect. 7 of the text to which I linked.)

Edwin

 

[Contarini]

Alfie:

Why do Catholics use both the Bible and Tradition? Why not just do away with the Bible?

Alfie, when did you stop beating your wife?

So much of the Bible contradicts Tradition.

Suppose you give an example. You seem to think that purgatory contradicts “Jesus’ sacrificial death on the Cross.” But you have not explained how this is so, and unless you have a remarkably different argument from the standard ones, you are unlikely to mount much of a critique without seriously misrepresenting Purgatory. Purgatory in Catholic theology exists for those who have already been saved but have not been fully sanctified (to use the terminology with which I’m familiar from the Wesleyan Holiness tradition). It therefore cannot possibly detract from Jesus’ death on the Cross. (I actually have problems with this understanding of Purgatory, since the earliest explicit Christian prayer for the dead was made for a non-believer who had died in childhood. But that’s another issue.)

Edwin

 

[awfulthings9]

Alfie:

The Bible doesn’t say anything about purgatory. Therefore I don’t believe in it.

Let me play a game with this quote by replacing the word purgatory, but keeping the rest the same:

“The Bible doesn’t say anything about “TRINITY”. Therefore I don’t believe in it.”

“The Bible doesn’t say anything about “SOLA SCRIPTURA”. Therefore I don’t believe in it.”

“The Bible doesn’t say anything about “RAPTURE”. Therefore I don’t believe in it.”

“The Bible doesn’t say anything about “INSTRUMENTAL MUSIC IN WORSHIP”. Therefore I don’t believe in it.”

On the other hand, Alfie, if you had enough respect to read the previous posts, you would see that, like the Trinity, Purgatory is implicitly described in the Bible. If that’s good enough for your belief in a three-person God, it should be good enough for Purgatory … or, are you basing your belief in the Trinity on tradition?