Why is voting for Biden a mortal sin?

  • Thread starter Thread starter zeland
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
OraLabora said:
This is pure conjecture and based on past performance since Roe vs. Wade, whether a Democrat or Republican occupied the White House made little or no difference on the rate of abortions (and I’ve seen some data to suggest that the rate went down with Democrat Presidents, but I’m no expert on abortion in the US, especially since I am Canadian).

Therefore the main logical pillar your conclusion rests on, is simply not a given.
Click to expand...
Recently, Democrats have become more agressive about abortion policies. They are now pushing for making abortion up until the ninth month easier. Given this fact, don’t you think that my “conjecture” is reasonably justified, and a real possibility?
 
No I don’t know that. I do know that the Democrats have been dishonest on every issue and the press have been their shills.
 
Last edited:
Pick one of the above and I’ll provide proof, in the sense of evidence that will convince a reasonable person. I can’t speak to what you consider “proof” because I am not your brother so what is persuasive for you may not be what persuades a rational person.
 
Shakuhachi said:
40.png
HarryStotle:
No I don’t know that.
Click to expand...
Then a discussion with you is impossible if you cannot acknowledge an obvious fact.
Click to expand...
What is “obvious” as regards the significance of a fact requires the capacity for sound judgement. Facts are rarely obvious in terms of what can be concluded from them.

Give what you consider an “obvious” fact and I suspect it will be found a tad more nuanced than you think.
 
Like shooting fish in a barrel.
“Our (COVID-19) numbers are better than almost all countries.”…
  • Based on population, the United States has one of the highest death rates worldwide.
  • The United States has a higher rate of infection than Canada, Australia and most European countries.
 
This whole topic, the idea, that voting for Biden is a mortal sin is politically, not theologically motivated. The Church has never had such extreme views.

I really worry about people here. Jesus taught that we receive mercy as we give mercy. It is the lesson of the Pharisees. It is the lesson of the Inquisition. Christianity without mercy is a frightening thing. When one goes past what the Church teaches drawing a harder line that God, that should give us pause.
 
Shakuhachi said:
Like shooting fish in a barrel.
“Our (COVID-19) numbers are better than almost all countries.”…
  • Based on population, the United States has one of the highest death rates worldwide.
  • The United States has a higher rate of infection than Canada, Australia and most European countries.
Click to expand...
Did you make up those bullet points or do you have a source? You certainly don’t provide numbers that can be checked.

Should we just take your word for it, or go to Politifact?

If you are going to shoot fish in a barrel, at least load your weapon.

As to your second claim, the reason the US has such a high infection rate is because it has tested over one hundred million citizens - almost a third of its people.

With the exceeption of the UK most of the other nations in the EU, Canada and Australia have lower rates of testing. The US ranks 3rd in testing of alll the major nations with a rate of 303 000 per m pop. It also isn’t clear that the testing regimens are of equal validity. It would be helpful to have the testing validity of the different tests used in different countries to confirm the comparisons are valid.

The death rate point is somewhat misleading because the CDC guidances include in Covid deaths anyone who died with Covid as having died of Covid. Yet, just a few weeks ago the CDC released data that showed only 9200 of the supposed Covid deaths could directly be attributed to Covid absent any other comorbidity.

One critical point that is being forgotten by those who want to make political say out of the numbers is that environmental factors such as temperature, humidity, seasonality, etc., favour the spread of the virus. It may just be that the most hard hit areas in the world are those which offer the best environmental conditions for virus spread.

This wouldn’t be a political fault in terms of policy, but one determined by factors beyond the control of policy.
 
Last edited:
HarryStotle said:
Any site that claims to be the authoritative arbiter of facts and truth should not be taken seriously.
Click to expand...
Just because they make such a claim, you are right. However, that site will always link the evidence, like the words coming out of the President’s mouth. I know it seems like they are bias against Trump, but I think that is only because we have never had a president, or any politician, lie as much.
 
pnewton said:
40.png
HarryStotle:
Any site that claims to be the authoritative arbiter of facts and truth should not be taken seriously.
Click to expand...
Just because they make such a claim, you are right. However, that site will always link the evidence, like the words coming out of the President’s mouth. I know it seems like they are bias against Trump, but I think that is only because we have never had a president, or any politician, lie as much.
Click to expand...
We’ve never had a president whose words and actions are the object of scrutiny by a media, elite class and political party with such a frantic and absurd agenda as those currently challenging his words and deeds.

When in history have those in elite institutions attempted to crush so many of what until last week were normative in human society?

The so-called progressive agenda…
The right to choose one’s sexual orientation; one’s gender; to decide whether a baby lives or dies; to riot, loot, destroy property and gun down cops on the street for any perceived agitation; to leave judicial outcomes in the hands of street mobs; to throw out basic concepts of morality and law such as the presumption of innocence and the right to a fair trial; to rewrite history, language and culture and replace them with the whims of those with a lust for canceling whatever they feel at the moment should be; to abolish policing and prisons; to replace civil society with anarchy; to ban free speech; critical race propaganda, …

The reason we’ve never had a president quite like Trump is because we’ve never had the lunacy in society that we have today.
 
Last edited:
OraLabora said:
40.png
John10:
He support abortion, that makes him ineligible to become a viable candidate to even consider. Unless he publicly states otherwise (and follows through with actions of course) you would be indirectly cooperating with a grave evil by voting for him.
Click to expand...
Which the Church allows for proportionate reasons. Some here argue there are no proportionate reasons. That however is a matter of individual conscience. There may be very powerful private proportional reasons as I have pointed out elsewhere, that would not be obvious to those not close to the voter.
Click to expand...
 
John10 said:
40.png
OraLabora:
40.png
John10:
He support abortion, that makes him ineligible to become a viable candidate to even consider. Unless he publicly states otherwise (and follows through with actions of course) you would be indirectly cooperating with a grave evil by voting for him.
Click to expand...
Which the Church allows for proportionate reasons. Some here argue there are no proportionate reasons. That however is a matter of individual conscience. There may be very powerful private proportional reasons as I have pointed out elsewhere, that would not be obvious to those not close to the voter.
Click to expand...
Catholic Bishop Blasts Joe Biden: He Will Force Americans to Fund Abortions - LifeNews.com
Click to expand...
The problem with the “matter of individual conscience” claim made by @OraLabora is that it confuses the responsibility of moral agents to recognize right and wrong with the supposed right to determine for oneself what is right and wrong.

There is no such right. God determines what is right and wrong and it is our responsibility to abide by what God has determined. It is not in the realm of the operation of conscience to decide for oneself what good is or what is evil. Those are objective and discoverable not mutable, fungible or (name removed by moderator)enetrable.

The problem with the “matter of conscience” claim is that it capitulates to the relativist notion that morality is a matter that a person decides for themselves; i.e., that what is right and wrong is for the individual to decide.

At the very least, posters such as @OraLabora appear to assume that because the moral implications are indeterminable no ultimate resolution to the moral question is to be had, therefore, whatever each individual decides is right for them and no one ought to question their conscience.

It isn’t clear to me how this position is any different from moral relativism because moral questions are fundamentally inscrutable.
 
Last edited:
Shakuhachi said:
40.png
HarryStotle:
The reason we’ve never had a president quite like Trump is because we’ve never had the lunacy in society that we have today.
Click to expand...
I am glad to hear you link his election with lunacy.
Click to expand...
Possible antidote to a great array of it, depending on the outcome.

What do you call, for one, rioting in the cause of social justice before justice has had the opportunity to function, then rioting again after a just decision finds the purported guilty ones innocent?

So the mob determines the nature and findings of “justice” despite that the mob is provably wrong?

Is this sanity in your view?

 
Last edited:
HarryStotle said:
The reason we’ve never had a president quite like Trump is because we’ve never had the lunacy in society that we have today.
Click to expand...
That is one sentence I agree with 100%.
HarryStotle said:
It isn’t clear to me how this position is any different from moral relativism because moral questions are fundamentally inscrutable.
Click to expand...
The difference is that moral relativism denies absolute morals. Voting is one of those situations where there are many moral issues. It is the only situation. Life is full of morally complex issues. One can proceed guided by conscience because there is a recognition of absolute morals.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top