Why is voting for Biden a mortal sin?

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Read the link I posted for the statement the priest made. You may not agree with his reasons, but the priest said it.

That was my point. Priests say all sorts of things, like the rest of us. Better to follow the official guidance of the Church, like Faithful Citizenship, and in its entirety, not just selecting the passages we like best while downplaying the parts we don’t like.
Whether or not a priest somewhere at some time “said it,” is inconsequential as far as the moral question goes unless one thinks priests are morally infallible.

The crucial question is precisely, as you point out, the reasons the priest has for claiming what he does. Whether or not those reasons are compellingly true is the real question.
 
If your conscious says that abortion is ok, how well-formed is that? Seems like you’re voting against your conscious if you say you’re anti-abortion.
Oh, stop it!

I have said I’m anti-abortion. I am pro-life. I cared for a child in a persistent vegetative state for three years. I’ve lived this.
Would you vote for Hitler while saying y ou support Israel?
LOL
And, let’s see…Donald Trump’s America…you mean the America where mayors and governors refuse his assistance then blame everything on him? He cant’ act carte blanche. Local authorities have to accept his help.
You mean sending unnamed and unaccountable “federal officers” from various rag-tag agencies with no training on handling civilian crowd control issues? The ones who “kidnapped” people thinking they were “arresting” them when they had no probable cause? Those officers?

Yeah, they helped a lot.
And excuse me if I think someone who supports someone who supports abortion might just support abortion.
No, I won’t. I’ve told you I don’t support abortion. I think more than once. So, stop it.
 
So you would vote for Hitler while saying you support Israel…it’s the exact same logic you’re using with your abortion stance and voting practices.
You know, I think I’ve made my position clear. Your outrageous claims and allegations don’t make your position any stronger.
And…not ‘unnamed and unaccountable federal officers’…he’s mentioned the military and the National Guard
I referring to the actual officers in Washington DC and the Pacific Northwest, not the Guard troops in the District that attacked peaceful protesters in Lafayette square so Trump could stage his Bible phioto op. But, yeah, there’s that to.
And I don’t have to stop anything. If you want the conversation to rest, then you can stop responding.
Yeah, probably be easier to set you to ignore. Why don’t you do the same to me.
 
Supporting abortion for health of mother or fetus, supporting abortion because father is a criminal, is supporting abortion.
 
Instead of debating over the candidates, could someone perhaps of a blue disposition share one of the reasons why they don’t feel it is impossible to support the current Democratic platform in light of the USCCB guidelines on well-formed conscience?
I won’t even respond with my opinion on it.
 
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Someone should start a poll here with this question:

Has anyone on CAF actually changed their mind regarding their intended vote or political party preference based on another member’s arguments?

Personally, I doubt it.
 
Sadly, not many would likely say that they have, I imagine. I was convinced to change my religion with the help of debates, although that was not on CAF predominantly. I was a frequent lurker.
Also, the recent thread on the death penalty changed my opinion of it from “I support it as a last resort, but it ain’t pretty” to “I guess Pope Francis has it right.” Admittedly that political issue was never very relevant to my lived experience.
 
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Here are some arguments pro-life Biden supporters could use. I’m not endorsing these opinions. I’m posting them for the sake of discussion. So please don’t personally attack me.
  • Trump’s handling of COVID could have been better. As a result, more lives are lost.
  • Denial of climate change puts us closer to floods, famines, fire, and storms that will kill people.
  • Trump has not challenged Russia’s bounty program against U.S. service personnel. So more of our people die.
  • Trump’s promiscuous lifestyle might encourage young people to behave similarly, thus putting themselves at risk of AIDS.
I could see the denial of climate issue, actually, if climate science is convincing to you (“you” in general not “you” specifically). Couldn’t it be said that moving manufacturing away from unregulated countries like India and China would be a positive effect on the climate? Since the US highly regulates pollution.
@NSmith They would say that Trump greatly weakened environmental regulations. He pulled out Paris Accords. He also stacked the EPA with people from the energy sector and removed scientists.

My opinion. Ironically, the energy sector is way ahead of the government when it comes to climate change. Duke Energy divested itself all of coal-powered plants. They are transitioning to clean and green energy. They and other companies are investing in wind farms and natural gas plants.

Energy companies can see the trend and they want to make money. That means more jobs and more financial growth. It’s a win-win.

@Ridgerunner: Feel free to shoot down the reasons. I’m not going to defend these positions. I’m just trying to advance the discussion. To be honest, that’s all I’ve got under the hood. 😉
 
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I agree in part. Disagree in part.
Not to mention that we do not have full insight into the knowledge and consent of others, so we’re not in a position to tell someone else they committed a “mortal sin”
This part I can agree with. The individual’s state of mind might be invincible ignorance. They might not know what the Church teaches and be innocent in that ignorance.
There are many legitimate and moral reasons for a voter to choose to vote for Biden.
This is partly true. There may be Biden positions (though I don’t think any are real other than pro-abortion and pro-taxation) that a person might think meritorious. But that’s not the whole story. There must be a “proportionate” (equally grave) reason to vote for an abortion-supporting candidate like Biden. In this election there is nowhere near a 'proportionate reason". Is “taxing the rich” (which won’t happen anyway, but let’s assume it) really equally grave to killing hundreds of thousands of children? Why did the U.S. Bishops tell us abortion is the “preeminent issue” in this election? It’s because there is no “proportionate reason” to support abortion with Biden.

Therefore, while subjectively a person might not be guilty of serious sin in voting for Biden due to ignorance or lack of capacity, objectively he/she most assuredly is.
 
I could see the denial of climate issue, actually, if climate science is convincing to you (“you” in general not “you” specifically). Couldn’t it be said that moving manufacturing away from unregulated countries like India and China would be a positive effect on the climate? Since the US highly regulates pollution.
Also, does anyone have any resources that mention Biden’s plan for climate change? Or is it just the Green Deal or whatever it was called (not trying to be dismissive I just didn’t pay attention to that whole situation).
 
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People can argue anything.

But while I have asked numerous times here what anti-Trump posters would have done differently, nobody ever has an answer. Truth is, nobody has a good answer, particularly when one realizes Trump acted in accord with experts the entire time.
Denial of climate change puts us closer to floods, famines, fire, and storms that will kill people.
No evidence of that.
Trump has not challenged Russia’s bounty program against U.S. service personnel. So more of our people die.
How many have died?
Trump’s promiscuous lifestyle might encourage young people to behave similarly, thus putting themselves at risk of AIDS.
Evangelicals and traditional Catholics have allowed him to repent and reform. Liberals don’t. There is no evidence whatever that he has engaged in promiscuous or adulterous activity for years. On the other hand, he is the only president who has ever addressed the March for Life or saved the Catholic charities from the Obama abortifacient mandate.

Liberals forgive candidates who support killing millions of children, but won’t allow Trump to reform from past sexual behavior. It’s time a lot of Catholics became as forgiving and believing as some of their evangelical bretheren.
 
I agree with you dude but I am hoping that some blues will share their opinions instead of making this thread into an echo-chamber. Hopefully there’s better reasons than what we’ve come up with so far?
 
I could see the denial of climate issue, actually, if climate science is convincing to you (“you” in general not “you” specifically). Couldn’t it be said that moving manufacturing away from unregulated countries like India and China would be a positive effect on the climate? Since the US highly regulates pollution.
Also, does anyone have any resources that mention Biden’s plan for climate change? Or is it just the Green Deal or whatever.
The U.S. sequesters as much atmospheric carbon as it generates, possibly more. And we’re a lot closer to a low CO2 level at which all plant life dies (about 180 PPM) than we are to the known maximum (about 4,000 PPM) during which both plant and animal life thrived. We’re around 400 PPM presently.
 
Interesting. Climate issues have never really registered on my radar because I’m young and haven’t really had to put up with the regulations or extra taxes. My dad basically lost his job as a nuclear engineer because of regulation though.
Do you have any sources I could look at?
 
Could you copy or link a previous reply here? I haven’t read any of your posts before.
Also,
…United States will inevitably be hijacked by partisan forces to propose that Catholics have an overriding duty to vote for candidates…
What’s the difference between saying that its been hijacked and it really being an overriding duty to oppose abortion?
 
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Someone should start a poll here with this question:

Has anyone on CAF actually changed their mind regarding their intended vote or political party preference based on another member’s arguments?

Personally, I doubt it.
Quite possibly not. But when one is on a Catholic site, one feels obligated to present the Church’s position, particularly in face of the false assertions of some who would lead people astray with the pro-abortion arguments designed to do exactly that.
 
Well a Democrat is more than just abortion to be fair, although I would say that is the focus of this election and one of the reasons why the furor against Donald Trump has been so severe.
For the sake of discussion I will ask this: if one was convinced about the reality and pervasiveness of systemic white supremacist agendas in the government, and one had faith that the Biden/Harris ticket would lessen or remove that influence, would that suffice as a proportionate reason to put up with support for abortion in your view?
 
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