Why Islam denies the crucifixion of Christ

[planten]

I believe that you are right. That author had mentioned some grave where the staff (rod) or two staffs are placed beside a grave and he suggested that it was the grave of Moses a.s.

Another similar information that author gave was that the incident of Musa’s travel in search of knowledge (mentioned in Surah Kahf=chapter 18, verses 60 to 82), that incident happened to Musa in Kashmir or near about that area.

Thanks for reminding me. I should read that book “Jesus in heaven on Earth” again more carefully. Thanks.

 

[Nine_Two]

Hello Planten.

Originally Posted by Byzantine_Wolf View Post
Planten, you have not addressed my counterpoints. You replied to someone else and simply repeated everything that I responded to.

Let me quote that for you.

 

[planten]

From dolphinlove:
Now answer the questions people are asking you and stop your diversion tactics

.

To dolphinlove, my condition now is similar to:

A one bride and 100 grooms (suitors) at the door. She cried out to her relatives “Whom (How many) shall I visit and how many shall I satisfy?”

 

[planten]

Time permitting, I will follow your advice.

 

[Nine_Two]

.

To dolphinlove, my condition now is similar to:

A one bride and 100 grooms (suitors) at the door. She cried out to her relatives “Whom (How many) shall I visit and how many shall I satisfy?”

You brought it upon yourself. Perhaps you should answer the questions that come up instead of saying how many people are throwing at you.

 

[Byzantine_Wolf]

.

To dolphinlove, my condition now is similar to:

A one bride and 100 grooms (suitors) at the door. She cried out to her relatives “Whom (How many) shall I visit and how many shall I satisfy?”

Actually I think it’s more like a woman who’s allowed herself to become engaged to 100 men and refuses to commit to any of them.

So, are you going to respond to my points, or are you going to keep ignoring the arguments people have presented and keep using the same statements over and over again? Or are you going to continue topic-jumping when it’s clear you have no argument left?

 

[planten]

Nine_two:

Now how about you answer which Saint came up with the idea that Christ was not crucified?

Jesus may have gone to Japan too, if you are happy with that. I am not happy with that. Dan Brown may be wrong. I did not dig deep into that matter. But I know that there is something like da Vinci code in circulation.

I did not bring up Da Vinci Code in this thread. Some christian did it. Please ask that person why he/she brought it up in this thread. I have no wish to discuss that subject.

About that saint who suggested that it was not Jesus on the cross but some one else. Please note that it was not my idea nor the idea of Muhammad. This matter had been presented on this forum and in this thread very recently. Some christian / Catholic friend had suggested that it was the work of some GNOSTICS. This matter you will be able to find in these recent threads.

The Christians are admitting that it was introduced by some christians.But they were GNOSTICS. I do not even understand the meaning of GNOSTICS and AGNOSTICS.

You can make a search for the word "gnostic’ in these threads and find out who brought up that idea. Thanks. Forgive me.

 

[Byzantine_Wolf]

Planten, are you going to respond to my posts, or keep feigning ignorance of them?

 

[planten]

Actually I think it’s more like a woman who’s allowed herself to become engaged to 100 men and refuses to commit to any of them.

So, are you going to respond to my points, or are you going to keep ignoring the arguments people have presented and keep using the same statements over and over again? Or are you going to continue topic-jumping when it’s clear you have no argument left?

Sorry B W, please indicate your one useful question or indicate the post No. that I may try to resolve for you, I am short of memory. It is difficult to keep track of many things at once.

Please note that a woman who engages herself to many men cannot complain. But the case of the poor bride that I mentioned was the one who did never get engaged to any one. But there were many at the door wanting her hand in marriage. Please try to see the things in the right perspective.

I know the case of one lady (very pious lady) who was not engaged to any one. She did not belong to any man. She belonged to God almighty (Waqf).
She had to be married to some one soon. There were many contestants (suitors) asking for her hand and there was quite a struggle. Lots had to be drawn to decide who would be her husband. Allah chose her good husband for her.

Of course the case of the bride I mentioned has nothing to do with that pious lady. That was a general type of comment describing my condition at present.

 

[Nine_Two]

Jesus may have gone to Japan too, if you are happy with that. I am not happy with that. Dan Brown may be wrong. I did not dig deep into that matter. But I know that there is something like da Vinci code in circulation.

I don’t think he did, in fact I think it’s outright foolish.

I did not bring up Da Vinci Code in this thread. Some christian did it. Please ask that person why he/she brought it up in this thread. I have no wish to discuss that subject.

I saw you bringing it up to counter hadiths. Even if you did not bring it up you keep going on about it. Clearly you do wish to discuss it.

About that saint who suggested that it was not Jesus on the cross but some one else. Please note that it was not my idea nor the idea of Muhammad. This matter had been presented on this forum and in this thread very recently. Some christian / Catholic friend had suggested that it was the work of some GNOSTICS. This matter you will be able to find in these recent threads.

Ok, I’ll accept this is a misunderstanding, however I do suggest you do research into your arguments in the future.

1. Not everyone who claims to be Christian is a saint. To say a saint said something is to say a person of authority is making the claim. Although saints can be wrong on small matters, something like that would make the a heretic, which brings me to the next point.
2. The Gnostics (means “knowledge”) were an early religious movement. It can hardly be said to be Christian, although it was certainly influenced by Christianity. These people believed that the god of the Old Testament was evil, and that a good god sent Jesus, a sort of demi-god to help save humanity. Among gnostic beliefs is the belief in reincarnation, something quite contrary to Islam and Christianity. Now your arguement comes down to Islam being influenced by this clearly heretical belief. Can you tell me that you honestly believe that these people influenced your religion? Can you tell me that you can believe a religion influenced by these people? Do you believe there are two gods?

The Christians are admitting that it was introduced by some christians.But they were GNOSTICS. I do not even understand the meaning of GNOSTICS and AGNOSTICS.

Agnosticism and Gnosticism, despite the similar names are not at all related to each other.

 

[Byzantine_Wolf]

Sorry B W, please indicate your one useful question or indicate the post No. that I may try to resolve for you, I am short of memory. It is difficult to keep track of many things at once.

I find that very hard to believe. You purposefully ignored my post. It was there. You chose instead to respond to one person who had responded after me. I think that’s clear. I posted many, many, many times, out in the open, asking you to respond to my post. You ignored me and instead responded to different people, most of whom you are now ignoring any way. You refused to answer me. Only now are you responding to me at all, saying you are “short of memory” and having to deal with “many things at once.” Memory and time is not the issue here - honesty is.

But for the sake of argument, I will link you to the two part post I made in response to your debate with me. The first post is here, the second one here. Again, respond to the points and stay on topic, do not jump to another topic altogether or rant about something irrelevant.

 

[DavidMark]

Joseph, the winner of the lottery, was assured through dreams and took care of Maryam, who belonged to Waqf, and was spotless.

That is nice, but its off topic: Why Islam denies the crucifixion of Christ. Instead of everyone ganging up on planten, why not re-read my post #339, and see if you don’t agree that there has been mass mis-interpretation of the Qur’án on this issue.
If it was Gabriel’s intention to test the religions on this issue, most Muslims didn’t pass.

 

[Nine_Two]

Joseph, the winner of the lottery, was assured through dreams and took care of Maryam, who belonged to Waqf, and was spotless.

That is nice, but its off topic: Why Islam denies the crucifixion of Christ. Instead of everyone ganging up on planten, why not re-read my post #339, and see if you don’t agree that there has been mass mis-interpretation of the Qur’án on this issue.
If it was Gabriel’s intention to test the religions on this issue, most Muslims didn’t pass.

To be honest your post doesn’t add anything. The question is asking what Islam believes, not what Baha’i believe. While you may consider yourself a contiuation and a new revelation, ultimately you’re just making the same accusations against Islam, that Muslims make against Christians and Jews.

And no one is ganging up on Planten, we’re asking him to clarify what he has already said.

 

[Byzantine_Wolf]

Just so planten can’t claim that he missed my post…

But for the sake of argument, I will link you to the two part post I made in response to your debate with me. The first post is here, the second one here. Again, respond to the points and stay on topic, do not jump to another topic altogether or rant about something irrelevant.

 

[planten]

Just so planten can’t claim that he missed my post…

I checked the previous posts. I had replied to your earlier posts by my posts #241 and #242. Also, by post #256. That was enough. It covered why Muslims disbelieve in death of Jesus on Cross. I had no more new material.

 

[Byzantine_Wolf]

I checked the previous posts. I had replied to your earlier posts by my posts #241 and #242. Also, by post #256. That was enough. It covered why Muslims disbelieve in death of Jesus on Cross. I had no more new material.

Those posts were made before the posts I linked to - therefore there’s no way you could have replied to them. In fact the two responses I linked to (#257 and 258) were in response to #256.

Therefore you have not replied at all. So please continue our dialogue and do so now.

 

[Nine_Two]

Well I’m convinced Planten only looks at a few key words and responds based on that.

 

[Nine_Two]

Planten, if you want to look into what these Gnostics who you acknowledge influenced your religion, believe, I suggest reading “On the Origin of the World.” You can get it in book form but it’s also at this site along with the rest of the Nag Hammadi Library.

edit: It is quite short, shouldn’t take longer than half an hour to read the whole thing.

 

[dolphinlove]

Byzantine_Wolf Those posts were made before the posts I linked to - therefore there’s no way you could have replied to them. In fact the two responses I linked to (#257 and 258) were in response to #256.

Therefore you have not replied at all. So please continue our dialogue and do so now.

Plantens responses will either be…

1. The link is broken.
2. Ive answered that already and stating an older number post… maybe #59
3. Your post is too long
4. I cant remember from post that long ago.
5. That post is too long.
6. I need to change the subject
7. The post is too long
8. The post is to long and i cant remember it all
9. Did i mention the post is too long? My memory is not so good

 

[sedonaman]

Plantens responses will either be…
…

Here’s the pattern I’ve observed:

1. State that the Christian belief is wrong, using as proof some Islamic belief or some made-up story;
2. Attempt to shift the discussion to Christianity by claiming there is something similar in Christian scriptures and bringing Christianity down to Islam’s level;
3. Repeat #1 and #2 … multiple times if necessary.